What's so fantastic about Apple?

[CynicalSkeptic]

You forget that I was talking about the modern "Mac/PC" debate, therefore I'm obviously talking about a modern definition of PC, thus when I say "the first PC" I am talking about the first PC by the modern meaning of the word.

And by YOUR definition of the modern meaning of the word you mean it most be controlled primarily with a mouse using a GUI. But web browsing, and networking in general are copmletely irrelevant.

 

[Lamuella]

It's not because it wouldn't be very useful. It's because the meaning of "PC" has changed in the intervening decades. Programmable machines were called "computers" as early as the 19th Century, yet most people today would not consider such a device a computer.

You forget that I was talking about the modern "Mac/PC" debate, therefore I'm obviously talking about a modern definition of PC, thus when I say "the first PC" I am talking about the first PC by the modern meaning of the word.

you do realize that this is almost word for word a no true scotsman fallacy, right?

 

[Axiom_Blade]

And I do know a fanatical Windows guy. He said, "Vista is fine". He will brook no complaints about Windows.

It is easy to find a Mac fanatic among Mac users. The same cannot be said about Windows users.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I seriously could not in any way care less about the position of Apple or any other company on the stock market. What I like and dislike about Apple and their products has about as much to do with stock market position as it does with the brand of toothpaste that their new CEO uses. Until you mentioned stock market position, not only could I not have told you whether Apple shares were worth more or less than those of any other given company but I would have told you I didn't care. I still don't care.

Precisely. I couldn't care less how Apple is doing on the stock market. What I do care about is what Apple's done to the smartphone market. Smart phones, generally, are not as smart as they should/used to be. I'm still using an Omnia II because every 1-2 months when I look for a new phone, I find everything is about the size of the screen because that's what all the manufacturers, sans Apple, believe is going to give them market share. That's great, but I'm looking for a phone, not a mini-tablet. And that's before we even get started on Apple fans reacting to announcements that their software is being upgraded to allow them to do almost everything my Omnia I could do out of the box, 6 months prior, as though it makes the iPhone the best phone on the market (again, again).

And of course they're all compatible. The iPod, iPhone, and iPad are exactly the same product packaged in a different size (and with the ability to make phone calls in the case of the iPhone). My Win7 tablet, desktop, both laptops, and my Omnia II are even more easily compatible - and I don't have to worry about using a program like iTunes to control any bit of it. I can drag and drop files onto/off any of these to the other, using bluetooth even, with no hassle. Basically straight out of the box (just have to choose the homegroup and password).

I could do that with WinXP too, ya know.

There's nothing spectacular about iOS except that kiddies like it because it's pretty, hipsters like it because it's the latest cabbage patch kids, and fanbois like it because it's anti-Microsoft (some how) and/or because it's ZOMG APPLE!.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

for the record, I own one Apple product: a 4gb third generation silver ipod nano. It plays music, podcasts, and movies perfectly well, but the process of getting files onto it and off it is irritating. I prefer something that you can plug in and just drag and drop stuff to without having to install software.

I think you and el greco are exactly the audience apple does not cater to. Apple really doesn't try to be all things to all people, by offering 10 bazillion options. Often, this seems to me to be the thing that pisses people off about apple:

I like the iphone, but it doesn't do X Y Z.
Apple should make a netbook/mini tower/meh
Not having a removable battery is ....

Instead of just buying a different product, it seems to make many want to complain about apples control and how you have to do everything the apple way. I am pretty sure I saw that complaint earlier in the thread.

It's an interesting phenomena. I don't know that it's all marketing .. maybe it is...

 

[Axiom_Blade]

http://www.macsales.com/

In the Wikipedia article, it says:

It has been argued that Apple has achieved such efficiency in its supply chain that the company operates as a monopsony (one buyer, many sellers), in that it can dictate terms to its suppliers.

I think that is what WildCat was getting at.
Tell me, can you buy a computer that runs the MacOS that is not produced by Apple? I don't know how it is now, but that used to not be the case.

I remember back before Jobs returned to the company, Apple tried allowing third party companies to manufacture Macs. However, Apple quickly pulled those licenses, once those companies proved able to produce faster, better computers for much lower prices.

PowerComputing had some great ads from that era. "We lost our license for speeding"...priceless.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

I seriously could not in any way care less about the position of Apple or any other company on the stock market.

Sorry, anytime a Mac user mentions how great Apple's stock is, it reminds me of this crazy Mac user I encountered on a message board. He was screaming at people talking about Jobs' acid-dropping days, saying that they should all be sued for libel. He was afraid that if people knew that Jobs was an ex-acid-head, it would devalue his Apple stock!

If someone actually owns Apple stock, I would consider them even more biased than the average Mac user, because they have a financial stake in Apple's success. The more stock you own, the more likely you are to just become a walking advertisement for that company.

 

[Lamuella]

Apple really doesn't try to be all things to all people, by offering 10 bazillion options.

that's a pretty weird response when my complaint was that they made a simple thing (file transfer) too complicated.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Instead of just buying a different product, it seems to make many want to complain about apples control and how you have to do everything the apple way.

Interesting. I have a friend who is a die-hard Mac fan, and he always says the same thing: "I don't get why people complain about Apple! Nobody's forcing them to buy it!"
Well, duh, nobody's forcing me to buy it. But if I think something's crappy, I have a right, as a consumer, to let other consumers know why I think that it's crappy, and why they shouldn't buy it. I mean, do people seriously think that you shouldn't voice any complaints about a product...just buy something else and STFU??

 

[El Greco]

I think you and el greco are exactly the audience apple does not cater to. Apple really doesn't try to be all things to all people, by offering 10 bazillion options. Often, this seems to me to be the thing that pisses people off about apple:

I like the iphone, but it doesn't do X Y Z.
Apple should make a netbook/mini tower/meh
Not having a removable battery is ....

Instead of just buying a different product, it seems to make many want to complain about apples control and how you have to do everything the apple way. I am pretty sure I saw that complaint earlier in the thread.

Not at all. I can name a lot of stupid things in the computer industry, many stupider than some Apple implementations. As I said, I don't really care what people like and what they don't, and I am not trying to convince anyone about anything. I personally don't like Apple products just because I find them restrictive and often -not always- overpriced. I also find my Symbian mobile restrictive, so what ? But the thing is that even if I behave as if Apple was just another brand, I can't ignore a lot of signs around me which show me that Apple is not just another brand for too many people. E.g., I hear many people talking like "where is my iPhone ?" or "did you see my Mac ?", while everybody else would say "where is my cellphone ?" and "did you see my laptop ?". I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining things here.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Interesting. I have a friend who is a die-hard Mac fan, and he always says the same thing: "I don't get why people complain about Apple! Nobody's forcing them to buy it!"
Well, duh, nobody's forcing me to buy it. But if I think something's crappy, I have a right, as a consumer, to let other consumers know why I think that it's crappy, and why they shouldn't buy it. I mean, do people seriously think that you shouldn't voice any complaints about a product...just buy something else and STFU??

No, but by the same token ... I don't expend much effort talking about things I dislike. It *seems* to me like there is lot of energy expended by people on why they dislike apple products instead of extolling the virtues of products they like that are better in their opinion.

 

[WildCat]

Bestbuy, microcenter, frys, newegg ...

I'm pretty sure I don't get the point of this question.

http://www.macsales.com/

Except...

4. What kind of activities will void my warranty?
Apple’s One-Year Limited Warranty for MacBook Pro excludes coverage for damage resulting from a number of events, including accident, liquid spill or submersion, unauthorized service and unauthorized modifications.

http://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro/service/#warranty4

 

[Axiom_Blade]

It *seems* to me like there is lot of energy expended by people on why they dislike apple products

Well, it seems to me like there is lot of energy expended by people on why they dislike Microsoft products. Ask yourself why this would be. Answer one question, and you've answered the other one.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Except...

http://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro/service/#warranty4

That doesn't include installing memory, etc. It's pretty much the same as any other dell/hp/whatever warranty.

 

[Aidoneus]

Except...

http://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro/service/#warranty4

Hardware replacements don't count as "unauthorised modifications". Any other computer manufacturer's warranty would be more or less identical.

 

[Modified]

Tell me, can you buy a computer that runs the MacOS that is not produced by Apple?

Sure, you can even run it in a Windows 7 VM.

What, you meant legally?

 

[Verde]

Perhaps OT, but this report:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/apple/apple-is-now-worth-more-than-greece-as-value-passes-400b/

has Apple valued more than a country.

V.

 

[Brian-M]

The Macintosh was the first ever personal computer by any sort of useful modern definition; that is a computer that was cheap enough to buy and simple enough to use that individual people could "personally" own one.

As an example, early "PCs" required users to write their own software. No one would consider such a device a "PC" today.

Cheap enough and simple enough for individuals to "personally" own and use, doesn't require the user to write their own programs?

That still leaves a lot of Personal Computers around before the Macintosh came out. Such as the Commodore 64, which according to Wikipedia was the best selling personal computer of all time.

During the C64's lifetime, sales totalled between 12.5 and 17 million units, making it the best-selling single personal computer model of all time. For a substantial period of time (1983–1986), the C64 dominated the market with between 30% and 40% share and 2 million units sold per year, outselling the IBM PC clones, Apple Inc. computers, and Atari 8-bit family computers.

What reason would you give for excluding the C64? You could buy programs for it on cassette or disk, you could connect it to a printer or modem. It was even capable of online gaming.

Commodore 64 enthusiasts have even written a version of Linux called LUnix that can run on the Commodore 64.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

I had a C64c and used it from 1985 to 1995. It shipped with GEOS and was just as easy to use (but not as many features of course) as a Macintosh for a fraction of the price at the time. A friend of mine just down the hall from me in the barracks had a first generation Mac (his brother sold them so he got a pretty good price on it) but he never referred to it as a PC. Everyone I knew referred to a MSDOS based machine as a PC (or more likely a PC Clone) while nobody used that term for a Mac or a C64.

Now that MSDOS is essentially dead the term PC always means a Windows based machine while a Mac means a OSX based machine. Very few people will refer to a Linux based machine as a PC even though it has the exact same hardware as a windows box.

 

[paiute]

It is easy to find a Mac fanatic among Mac users. The same cannot be said about Windows users.

And that piece of evidence tells you nothing?