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Vaccines: how do I talk to my anti-vac wife about it?

He's not kidding. From the site I googled. (small text in original) :rolleyes:

The major healing methods in NH

The methods in Natural Hygiene are very simple, so simple that it may be hard to believe that they will work. But usually they are far superior to any other methods. Very cheap, but very powerful. (Note: in physical trauma there may also be need for manipulation/surgery.)

One method is the same as used for a sick houseplant --- provide the best environment, the best soil, nutrition, water, sunshine - and it will recover. The key is to know what environment and food is optimal for humans, but here we can study primitive peoples more than 10,000 years ago - how they lived and what they ate.

Another method is the same as what an animal in nature would use if it ate something poisonous, or broke a leg -- just lie down, rest and sleep, don't eat, until the damage is healed - a method called "fasting".


Deadly advice for lots of people. Pretty offensive, actually.

carlitos,

Although I should just get back to work, I decided that I must reply to your post. I'm impressed that you went as far as to investigate even in such a small way and that deserves some praise.

Your comment about the advice being deadly and offensive is understandable at this stage because you're probably still reeling at the idea of "not eating" to getting healthier. Once you've read or heard hundreds of testimonials from people who refused to be butchered and drugged by the profession or "written off" once the doctors had done all the damage they could and sent them home to die, you might reconsider what is "deadly" and "offensive."
 
Not only is he a germ denier, but a thermodynamics denier. Where does "Natural Hygiene" expect the energy required for healing to come from?

Hint: Where does the energy come from that keeps your heart beating, your brain functioning and each individual cell and bacteria within you alive?
 
trusetheeker, please answer these questions:

1) Why do you not realize that viruses ARE germs?
2) You mentioned "putrid air and water". What do you think causes water to be "putrid", if not bacteria and other microbe?
3) If "unnatural" diet is the only source of disease, how do you explain wild animals and even wild plants getting sick?
4) Do you eat bananas? (Serious question.)

Morrigan,

You're asking all the wrong questions. For decades, across the world, people have been curing themselves of "incurable" diseases by sorting out their diet and their lifestyle, in spite of their doctor's advice.

Whether viruses ARE germs or NOT is immaterial as are all of your other questions.

What you should be asking is "where is the proof" (answer: Everywhere) and "how come my doctor doesn't know about this!" (answer: it's not in their interest to know)
 
Morrigan,

You're asking all the wrong questions. For decades, across the world, people have been curing themselves of "incurable" diseases by sorting out their diet and their lifestyle, in spite of their doctor's advice.

Whether viruses ARE germs or NOT is immaterial as are all of your other questions.

What you should be asking is "where is the proof" (answer: Everywhere) and "how come my doctor doesn't know about this!" (answer: it's not in their interest to know)


Examples, please.
 
Trusetheeker sounds just like our old friend Kumar, but with better spelling. Unconnected, illogical and irrational opinions spewed out at random with zero comprehension.
I vote for a bot.
No human could possibly be that stupid and have survived on this planet to an age where he could use a laptop.
 
YUP!

As in delicate balance. How many diseases can an immature body handle in a mere two years?

How many vaccines can an immature body handle in a mere two years?
The immunoglobulin genes have the capacity to encode 10^12 different antibodies.

I still haven't had an explanation as to why this natural hygiene doesn't apply to animals.
 
First you can tell me why all the world's scientists and all the world's medical community, with all the patient data, with all the CPU throw weight they have, cannot figure out why toddlers are becoming autistic?

"They can't figure it out, therefore it's definitely my gigantically insane theory"
 
Do you see breathing oxygen as primitive? How about our physiological requirement to replenish our H2O? Is it old-fashioned to have to eat at all instead of just ingesting the correct array of nutrition tablets?
Irrelevant. We, unlike you, aren't interested in whether or not something is all-natural!1111(TM)2011, Big Alternative, we care about empirical evidence.

Eating the foods that we're adapted to as provided by Nature isn't primitive, it's logical and life-sustaining. Eating anything else leads to reduced health, disease and a shortened lifespan.
Sorry, but you still have not provided evidence of this. We're not asking about red herrings such as what we're "evolved to do". We're asking for evidence that natural hygiene is good for you.

Talking about primitive, the most sophisticated computer that man has created doesn't come close to the innate intelligence of the human body. Consider that one fertilised ovum contains all the intelligence required to create a human being with its trillions of individual components all working together in harmony for the survival of the whole. Nothing is needed from the mother other than a healthy environment for it to grow in. Nature is well ahead of us and with our current headlong race to extinction, we'll never get a chance to catch up.
More red herrings. Yes, humans are fantastic machines. No, it does not follow from this that natural hygiene is desirable.

Please look up definition of "iatrogenic."
Okay.

iatrogenic /iat·ro·gen·ic/ (i-ă´tro-jen´ik) resulting from the activity of physicians; said of any adverse condition in a patient resulting from treatment by a physician or surgeon.

Your point:confused:? Yes, doctors, like all other people, make mistakes. You're acting as if we've been denying this all along. For someone who complains about other peoples' reading comprehension problems, you're pretty difficult to get through to yourself.

As you asked so nicely, I'm referring to the routine scare-mongering on this thread which says that people like me are guilty of injuring innocent people because we warn against getting vaccinations.
But you are. This isn't "scare-mongering", it's trying to explain to you the consequences of what you're doing. The Jenny McCarthy body count web site, for example, was referred to in an attempt to try to get you to realize that your movement is not playing a game here, but actually injuring and killing people.

If we publicise the seatbelt dangers then people won't wear them and might get killed in an accident and of course it would be our fault. Nothing to do with the industry or the government regulators who should be working on our behalf to ensure our safety or at least the awareness of the risks.
Yes, if you started telling people that seatbelts caused autism, and actually getting people to stop wearing them, would mean that you were directly causing fatalities.

Now apply this logic to vaccines and their actual, real-world statistics that you're refusing to look up.

You're overlooking the word "each."

Conventional medicine's paradigm is that each disease has its own specific cause and a specific cure none of which includes your diet except possibly as aggravating circumstances. They go through elaborate diagnostics to establish what disease you have so that they can decide the appropriate treatment to prescribe. In practice, you wind up a with a cocktail of medicines for various symptoms and a number of those are to counteract the side effects of the main drugs.
Good boy. Edit: except, of course, you are "forgetting" that there's a range of therapy options that have nothing to do with drugs. But nice try.

In Natural Hygiene, there's no need to wait for a diagnosis because if you're unwell, you start a complete rest including a water fast and when you've recovered you return to (or transition to) a healthy lifestyle in accordance with the laws of Nature.
Gotcha. Now post evidence this actually works. Actual evidence, not "breathing is good for you!" or "doctors are evil!". Empirical evidence. If you don't have any, explain to me how you know you're right in the first place.

I'm bowing out now so for answers to your burning questions, please just [insert favorite internet search engine here] Natural Hygiene and start reading. Good luck.
Isn't that an incredibly bold thing to ask us to do given your own refusal to look up even the most basic facts on conventional medicine and vaccines:rolleyes:?

How many vaccines can an immature body handle in a mere two years?
I love how you don't bother to actually figure this out, but rather add the weasel word "delicate" and throw the question out as an argument from ignorance. Nice try.

First you can tell me why all the world's scientists and all the world's medical community, with all the patient data, with all the CPU throw weight they have, cannot figure out why toddlers are becoming autistic?
Good thing we have you to tell us what the world's scientist and medical community, with all their patient data and CPU throw weight, is too dumb to figure out.
 
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So the children have come out to play!

Travis,

Do you see breathing oxygen as primitive? How about our physiological requirement to replenish our H2O? Is it old-fashioned to have to eat at all instead of just ingesting the correct array of nutrition tablets?

Eating the foods that we're adapted to as provided by Nature isn't primitive, it's logical and life-sustaining. Eating anything else leads to reduced health, disease and a shortened lifespan.

Talking about primitive, the most sophisticated computer that man has created doesn't come close to the innate intelligence of the human body. Consider that one fertilised ovum contains all the intelligence required to create a human being with its trillions of individual components all working together in harmony for the survival of the whole. Nothing is needed from the mother other than a healthy environment for it to grow in. Nature is well ahead of us and with our current headlong race to extinction, we'll never get a chance to catch up.

So why did so many American Indians, "natural" eaters if there ever were any, die in so great numbers when the Europeans introduced foreign illnesses when they first interacted?
 
Hint: Where does the energy come from that keeps your heart beating, your brain functioning and each individual cell and bacteria within you alive?

Glycolosis, followed by the krebs-cycle.
The input for this cycle are the things your digestive tract denatures and then hydrolyses to its component molecules prior to transporting them to the bloodstream.
The only real relevance your diet has on this is the ratio glucose/aminoacids/fatty acids/other your body has to work with.

you DO know that your stomach denatures every protein it encounters AND that your intestine is impermeable to whole proteins that survive the process?
 
First you can tell me why all the world's scientists and all the world's medical community, with all the patient data, with all the CPU throw weight they have, cannot figure out why toddlers are becoming autistic?

You have already been told that it doesn't work that way. You need to answer the question before you ask any. Plus that question has been answered a few times on this thread (hint: it involves a document that was published in 1994).

So, really, what evidence is there that autism started to increase with the introduction of the MMR in the USA starting in 1971? Not 1979 like your friend who thinks it is okay to shake babies, Buttram, said. You brought it up with you quoted him, so you need to provide the evidence that was missing from the paper who quoted.

Hint: Where does the energy come from that keeps your heart beating, your brain functioning and each individual cell and bacteria within you alive?

Food. What do you think? And when you fast you don't get food, which means you don't get energy. Which means if you fast when you are sick you don't get any energy sources.

Tell us, are you actually from Htrae?
 
Morrigan,

You're asking all the wrong questions. For decades, across the world, people have been curing themselves of "incurable" diseases by sorting out their diet and their lifestyle, in spite of their doctor's advice.

Whether viruses ARE germs or NOT is immaterial as are all of your other questions.

What you should be asking is "where is the proof" (answer: Everywhere) and "how come my doctor doesn't know about this!" (answer: it's not in their interest to know)

Please answer the questions anyway. Just to humour you, I've removed the question about viruses. Now humour me back and answer these questions, please? I've added a bonus one:

1) You mentioned "putrid air and water". What do you think causes water to be "putrid", if not bacteria and other microbe?
2) If "unnatural" diet is the only source of disease, how do you explain wild animals and even wild plants getting sick?
3) Do you eat bananas? (Serious question.)
4) Bonus question: do you use soap or shampoo when you wash?
 
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4) Bonus question: do you use soap or shampoo when you wash?
4b) Why do you wash? To remove body odour? Animals would never do that, would they? Hence if you wash you do an unnatural thing, and thus vaccines must be safe.
 
Well, many animals do wash. Using unfiltered and possibly very cold water, of course.
 
Well, many animals do wash. Using unfiltered and possibly very cold water, of course.

My cat licks her butt. Naturally.
Perhaps Trusetheeker cleans genitals in this "natural" fashion. He/she won't be using any of the "unnatural" loo roll, presumably.
 
Please answer the questions anyway. Just to humour you, I've removed the question about viruses. Now humour me back and answer these questions, please? I've added a bonus one:

1) You mentioned "putrid air and water". What do you think causes water to be "putrid", if not bacteria and other microbe?
2) If "unnatural" diet is the only source of disease, how do you explain wild animals and even wild plants getting sick?
3) Do you eat bananas? (Serious question.)
4) Bonus question: do you use soap or shampoo when you wash?

Morrigan,

1) Your first question is not a point of dispute and is not worth my time to discuss.
2) Although I've quickly reviewed previous post, I'm not sure where you got the idea that unnatural diet is the only source of disease. It's probably my fault for answering questions too late at night.
3) Serious answer. Yes, I eat bananas.
4) I do not use shampoo or soap on my body except when I've come in contact with an oily/greasy substance which I feel is worth the tradeoff or when handling other people's food.
 
Morrigan,

You're asking all the wrong questions. For decades, across the world, people have been curing themselves of "incurable" diseases by sorting out their diet and their lifestyle, in spite of their doctor's advice.

Whether viruses ARE germs or NOT is immaterial as are all of your other questions.

What you should be asking is "where is the proof" (answer: Everywhere) and "how come my doctor doesn't know about this!" (answer: it's not in their interest to know)
This is ludicrous. All one need do is compare life expectancy now and every hundred years past to see that 'natural' is deadly and modern medicine is a life saver.
 

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