Vaccines: how do I talk to my anti-vac wife about it?

[Professor Yaffle]

You really don't understand the difference between 10% of vaccinated people caught measles and 10% of those who caught measles were vaccinated, do you?

 

[pakeha]

Quote:
Ninety per cent of European cases were amongst adolescents and adults who had not been vaccinated or people where it was not known if they had been vaccinated or not.

I'm sure there was at least ONE person who didn't know that they had been vaccinated.


That one person would make it more than 10%.

You haven't understand the quote yet, have you?
Did you read the article yet?

 

[Estellea]

Quote:
Ninety per cent of European cases were amongst adolescents and adults who had not been vaccinated or people where it was not known if they had been vaccinated or not.

I'm sure there was at least ONE person who didn't know that they had been vaccinated.


That one person would make it more than 10%.

Every outbreak that is traced all over the world reports the same estimate which is >=90% of those who contract measles have not been vaccinated. The fact remains that you can't provide a single statistic that demonstrates otherwise. Your say-so is not valid.

Este

 

[trusetheeker]

Gary Null's on the case

For all you fans of Brian Deer, Gary Null's recent radio broadcast A complete deconstruction of the BMJ Brian Deer fraud against Dr Wakefield details Deer's part in the fraudulent stitch-up of Dr. Andrew Wakefield. Four hours of evidence including official documents and interviews with various witnesses plus proof that Deer intentionally witheld evidence that would have proven Wakefield's innocence - the proof that Dr Wakefield had ethical approval for all of his investigations.

Plus the truth about Wakefield's alleged "vaccine" patent which was not a vaccine and therefore would not have been a competitor to the MMR vaccine. It was, instead, a treatment for people who already have measles and might have provided great benefit to those people who get measles whether or not they've been vaccinated against it.

Not that any of this would have been important to the medical council. Failure to discredit Wakefield could have resulted in the UK government being liable for £trillions in damages claims as they had underwritten the MMR vaccine. It is far better to sacrifice a doctor and many more unfortunate vaccine victims than to risk having to pay out for the existing victims!

 

[Clayton Moore]

For all you fans of Brian Deer, Gary Null's recent radio broadcast A complete deconstruction of the BMJ Brian Deer fraud against Dr Wakefield details Deer's part in the fraudulent stitch-up of Dr. Andrew Wakefield. Four hours of evidence including official documents and interviews with various witnesses plus proof that Deer intentionally witheld evidence that would have proven Wakefield's innocence - the proof that Dr Wakefield had ethical approval for all of his investigations.

Plus the truth about Wakefield's alleged "vaccine" patent which was not a vaccine and therefore would not have been a competitor to the MMR vaccine. It was, instead, a treatment for people who already have measles and might have provided great benefit to those people who get measles whether or not they've been vaccinated against it.

Not that any of this would have been important to the medical council. Failure to discredit Wakefield could have resulted in the UK government being liable for £trillions in damages claims as they had underwritten the MMR vaccine. It is far better to sacrifice a doctor and many more unfortunate vaccine victims than to risk having to pay out for the existing victims!

Thank you trusetheeker.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Four hours of evidence including official documents and interviews with various witnesses plus proof that Deer intentionally witheld evidence that would have proven Wakefield's innocence - the proof that Dr Wakefield had ethical approval for all of his investigations.

I have a life, so just post the link of where those documents are located. I have no interest in spending four hours watching an online video. I can see why you Wakefield fanboys would do it, but just cut to the chase and list the evidence.

I am still waiting for what evidence Wakefield used to suggest to parents that they should use separate measles, mumps and rubella vaccines, even though there was nothing in the paper to suggest there was a problem (in any of the up to three kinds of MMR vaccines).

Plus the truth about Wakefield's alleged "vaccine" patent which was not a vaccine and therefore would not have been a competitor to the MMR vaccine. It was, instead, a treatment for people who already have measles and might have provided great benefit to those people who get measles whether or not they've been vaccinated against it.

Wouldn't it be better to prevent measles than to treat it with some kind of concoction he and Fudenberg dreamed up? Could you please show us the papers on PubMed that shows the patented version of transfer factor treats measles?

And Mr. Moore, I am still waiting for you to answer this:
Where is that evidence that the rise of autism in the USA started in 1971 when their MMR vaccine was approved?

 

[Clayton Moore]

I have a life, so just post the link of where those documents are located. I have no interest in spending four hours watching an online video. I can see why you Wakefield fanboys would do it, but just cut to the chase and list the evidence.

I am still waiting for what evidence Wakefield used to suggest to parents that they should use separate measles, mumps and rubella vaccines, even though there was nothing in the paper to suggest there was a problem (in any of the up to three kinds of MMR vaccines).



Wouldn't it be better to prevent measles than to treat it with some kind of concoction he and Fudenberg dreamed up? Could you please show us the papers on PubMed that shows the patented version of transfer factor treats measles?

And Mr. Moore, I am still waiting for you to answer this:
Where is that evidence that the rise of autism in the USA started in 1971 when their MMR vaccine was approved?

It's being discussed here.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7881702

 

[Estellea]

For all you fans of Brian Deer, Gary Null's recent radio broadcast A complete deconstruction of the BMJ Brian Deer fraud against Dr Wakefield details Deer's part in the fraudulent stitch-up of Dr. Andrew Wakefield. Four hours of evidence including official documents and interviews with various witnesses plus proof that Deer intentionally witheld evidence that would have proven Wakefield's innocence - the proof that Dr Wakefield had ethical approval for all of his investigations.

Plus the truth about Wakefield's alleged "vaccine" patent which was not a vaccine and therefore would not have been a competitor to the MMR vaccine. It was, instead, a treatment for people who already have measles and might have provided great benefit to those people who get measles whether or not they've been vaccinated against it.

Not that any of this would have been important to the medical council. Failure to discredit Wakefield could have resulted in the UK government being liable for £trillions in damages claims as they had underwritten the MMR vaccine. It is far better to sacrifice a doctor and many more unfortunate vaccine victims than to risk having to pay out for the existing victims!

Right, Gary Null the fool who poisoned himself and others with his own unregulated supplements is on the case. We should all bow in awe As for Wakefield's measles vaccine patent http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm You are, of course, wrong about that too. He clearly intended it to be a pre-prophylactic as a replacement for MMR and also as a "therapeutic" agent, except that he ventured into territory for which he has no expertise and failed there miserably too.

Este

 

[Chris Haynes]

It's being discussed here.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7881702

Hmmm, the is:

It will be difficult to refute this.

http://www.naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=2969467AE82B11FA08943967096BFDA0


http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/dr-wakefield-demands-british-medical-journal-retract-story/

January 30, 2011
Dr. Wakefield Demands British Medical Journal Retract Report.

I'm sorry, but you really need to post the title, journal and date of the actual studies. I already told you I am not going to watch any videos, and I see nothing in that blog posts that answers the question as to autism being noted in the USA just after 1971, and before 1997. Here is how I originally worded the question:

And since you brought a quote that claims the level of autism in the USA increased started when its MMR vaccine was introduced in 1971, please provide the title, journal and date of the peer reviewed papers that support that timeline. Make sure they are all dated between 1971 and 1997. Thank you.

You do understand that videos and blog posts are not peer reviewed papers? Now do try again.

Edit to add: Did you even understand the question?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
Not that any of this would have been important to the medical council. Failure to discredit Wakefield could have resulted in the UK government being liable for £trillions in damages claims as they had underwritten the MMR vaccine. It is far better to sacrifice a doctor and many more unfortunate vaccine victims than to risk having to pay out for the existing victims!

Oh for pity's sake, what nonsense. Your world must be so small that the UK government controls all scientific evidence.

Mine's a tad bigger and includes the scientific and medical communities from all over the world, in government positions, private positions and in non-profit positions. They are overwhelmingly pro-vaccine especially the MMR vaccine.

 

[trusetheeker]

Oh for pity's sake, what nonsense. Your world must be so small that the UK government controls all scientific evidence.

Mine's a tad bigger and includes the scientific and medical communities from all over the world, in government positions, private positions and in non-profit positions. They are overwhelmingly pro-vaccine especially the MMR vaccine.

Actually, I never said that the UK government controlled scientific evidence. It would appear that the scientists and doctors are self-limiting as anyone who has a theory, proven or otherwise, that is contrary to what is currently fashionable has to resort to publishing books because they're not allowed to publish through the standard journals. Those scientists and doctors who rely on corporate funds are hardly going to jeapordise their livelihoods by rocking the boat and those that do quickly wind up ostracized or in some cases suicided.

It's no wonder that you guys insist on peer-reviewed papers because you know nothing that gets published will be against your position.

While I'm here, I'll post this very short video made by one of many vaccine victims. Of course, she doesn't have any peer-reviews to support her claims so her testimony must be immediately dismissed. And of course, just remember all those lives that have been saved!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0gCVCP8BFrU

 

[trusetheeker]

Right, Gary Null the fool who poisoned himself and others with his own unregulated supplements is on the case. We should all bow in awe As for Wakefield's measles vaccine patent http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm You are, of course, wrong about that too. He clearly intended it to be a pre-prophylactic as a replacement for MMR and also as a "therapeutic" agent, except that he ventured into territory for which he has no expertise and failed there miserably too.

Este

Certainly looks like damning evidence but given Deers penchant for playing loose with other evidence, I'll withold judgement on this until I see corroborating proof. As for your comment about Wakefield's expertise and failure, I'll once again consider the source.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Actually, I never said that the UK government controlled scientific evidence. It would appear that the scientists and doctors are self-limiting as anyone who has a theory, proven or otherwise, that is contrary to what is currently fashionable has to resort to publishing books because they're not allowed to publish through the standard journals. Those scientists and doctors who rely on corporate funds are hardly going to jeapordise their livelihoods by rocking the boat and those that do quickly wind up ostracized or in some cases suicided.

It's no wonder that you guys insist on peer-reviewed papers because you know nothing that gets published will be against your position.

While I'm here, I'll post this very short video made by one of many vaccine victims. Of course, she doesn't have any peer-reviews to support her claims so her testimony must be immediately dismissed. And of course, just remember all those lives that have been saved!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0gCVCP8BFrU

This woman is someone's precious baby girl.

 

[Estellea]

Actually, I never said that the UK government controlled scientific evidence. It would appear that the scientists and doctors are self-limiting as anyone who has a theory, proven or otherwise, that is contrary to what is currently fashionable has to resort to publishing books because they're not allowed to publish through the standard journals. Those scientists and doctors who rely on corporate funds are hardly going to jeapordise their livelihoods by rocking the boat and those that do quickly wind up ostracized or in some cases suicided.

It's no wonder that you guys insist on peer-reviewed papers because you know nothing that gets published will be against your position.

How positively absurd. You can't make this work unless it is a vast global conspiracy. If you go to PubMed and type in "vaccine adverse reactions", I even did it for you. What do you see? Over 3K studies, most in reputable journals that describe the complications from vaccines. Corporate funds? You don't really know about granting agencies do you? The vast majority are from government, i.e. taxpayer funded and charitable trusts. Now what is more likely, a handful of cranks who see a cottage industry in "vaccine damage" because not a single one of them is doing it out of the kindness of their hearts now are they, or a vast global conspiracy involving every public health organisation, government, physician and scientist? Name a single, reputable scientist who has been ostracised or committed career suicide by "revealing" vaccine complications.

While I'm here, I'll post this very short video made by one of many vaccine victims. Of course, she doesn't have any peer-reviews to support her claims so her testimony must be immediately dismissed. And of course, just remember all those lives that have been saved!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0gCVCP8BFrU

Oh please, testimonials? Could you at least post her NVICP claim? That at least has some medical information. You can do that right?

Certainly looks like damning evidence but given Deers penchant for playing loose with other evidence, I'll withold judgement on this until I see corroborating proof. As for your comment about Wakefield's expertise and failure, I'll once again consider the source.

Denial, why am I not surprised? I linked to the .pdf of Wakefield's measles vaccine/therapeutic patent, not a single word has been altered. But go ahead and find your own copy and please report back with any anomalies. Also, please list Wakefield's qualifications in neurology, immunology and microbiology that would qualify him as an autism, vaccine and autism treatment expert. Also, what evidence do you have of Mr. Deer "playing loose with other evidence", preferably sans conspiracy.

Este

 

[Chris Haynes]

This woman is someone's precious baby girl.

So is this little girl: http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2011/11/another-sspe-case-angelina-is-dying.html

Where is that evidence that autism was increasing in the USA starting in 1971 when the MMR vaccine was introduced? Just post the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed papers that were written before 1997. Thank you.

trusetheeker, what do you think of the autism studies done at the Royal Free between 1999 and 2003? The ones that were not done by Wakefield, even though he was asked to do them.

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/japvaxautism/


Japanese & British Data Show Vaccines Cause Autism
Posted on June 3, 2009 by childhealthsafety

Just months following the US Court of Federal Claims rejection of the claim that the MMR vaccine causes autism, here you will see data from formal peer refereed medical papers showing that vaccines caused autism in British and in Japanese children and will be doing the same to children around the world. The number of Japanese children developing autism rose and fell in direct proportion to the number of children vaccinated each year:-

Vaccination Causes Autism – Say US Government & Merck’s Director of Vaccines
Posted on June 30, 2010 by childhealthsafety

A New Scientist article 29 June 2010 by Jim Giles states:-

We still do not know what causes autism.“

Desperate measures: The lure of an autism cure

That is not correct. Here we set out four ways autistic conditions are caused and confirmed by statements from the current President of pharmaceutical giant Merck’s Vaccines Division, by US Government agencies, by the US Federal Court and in formally published academic journal papers.

If you read nothing else we strongly recommend you read this PDF Download – Text of May 5th 2008 email from US HRSA to Sharyl Attkisson of CBS News]. In it the US Health Resources Services Administration [HRSA] state to CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkisson

Proof above.

 

[Chris Haynes]

I am sorry, but neither Great Britain nor Japan are part of the United States of America. If this is confusing to you, please consult a map.

Now, please tell us what evidence is there that the MMR vaccine caused autism to increase in the USA (United States of America, which is located on the North American continent, near Mexico and Canada, and includes some islands in the Pacific Ocean that are neither Japan nor Britain) starting in 1971.

Please post the PubMed indexed papers that date between 1971 and 1997 (which is over a decade before 2009). Just post the title, journal and dates of those studies (and that does not mean a website).

Thank you.

 

[Estellea]

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/japvaxautism/


Japanese & British Data Show Vaccines Cause Autism
Posted on June 3, 2009 by childhealthsafety


[qimg]http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/080603_terada_graph.jpg?w=468&h=373&h=373[/qimg]

Vaccination Causes Autism – Say US Government & Merck’s Director of Vaccines
Posted on June 30, 2010 by childhealthsafety

Proof above.

Let's see, a graph pulled from the nether regions of the pillocks who wouldn't know what a scientific study was if it was tattooed on Wakefield's forehead or the actual data: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763 CHS is only proof that some people shouldn't be allowed access to the interwebz and is on par with whale.to as for getting you laughed out of the room. Please use real citations.

Este

 

[Chris Haynes]

Let's see, a graph pulled from the nether regions of the pillocks who wouldn't know what a scientific study was if it was tattooed on Wakefield's forehead or the actual data: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763 CHS is only proof that some people shouldn't be allowed access to the interwebz and is on par with whale.to as for getting you laughed out of the room. Please use real citations.

Este

Plus there is this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16865547

By the way, I should mention that the MMR used in Japan was not the same as the one used since 1971 in the United States of America. One of the reasons the country is important.

Also, here is some fallout of Japan dropping its MMR and making measles vaccination voluntary: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1177963/ ...

According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.

 

[trusetheeker]

This woman is someone's precious baby girl.

True but unfortunately she's just one of billions of cash cows for the drug and medical industry. They might be doing this out of maliciousness or willful blindness but the damage is done nevertheless.

She's also one of the obvious victims. The drugs, vaccines, chemos, radiation and unnecessary surgery is helping bring mankind slowly and painfully to extinction but the real killer is the consumption of animal products and denatured fruit and veg which the medical profession supports through it's supposed expertise in health.