Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Tomtomkent]

Of course they had fevers. But you jump around as if seizures were normal happenstance or that they left some sort of detectable residue.

Have you read that a common after affect of a vaccine is a fever?

Nobody has suggested anything of the kind. Everybody is giving you good reasons why your claim that somewhere in the region of 50% would go undeteced, is utter bunk of the stupidest kind.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I'm certain you have been told before, correlation does not imply causation. It's a well known fact children receive immunizations at the same age they first begin to function socially at a level where autism spectrum disorders (or any mental disorder) would be noticeable.




When you tell him your various conspiracy theories, does he laugh at you or is he polite enough to wait till later?

Most people don't take the time to question anything they are told by the media and it's corporate network.

How many times have you heard "he's the doctor?"

 

[Clayton Moore]

Nobody has suggested anything of the kind. Everybody is giving you good reasons why your claim that somewhere in the region of 50% would go undeteced, is utter bunk of the stupidest kind.

If your child has a fever, is sleeping and has a febrile seizure, how would you know he had a seizure if you didn't witness it?

 

[Tomtomkent]

If your child has a fever, is sleeping and has a febrile seizure, how would you know he had a seizure if you didn't witness it?

Given that children spend far less than 50% of their time unobserved, how do they know to only have seizures when no parent is going to be around to see or hear?

Children do not sleep when you sleep, to your pattern. The majority of their sleeping time is observed, by parents keeping an eye on them. Children who are showing other symptoms sleep in the same room. If the kid has a siezure and thrashes around, chokes, or makes other noises, the parents either hear it in the room or on the monitor.

Why do you assume there would be no other symptoms that would cause the condition to be reported?

On no level does your supposition make any sense unless you are apparently accussing all parents of your own level of ineptitude.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Most people don't take the time to question anything they are told by the media and it's corporate network.

How many times have you heard "he's the doctor?"

Which has no implication on your false correlation.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Giordano, why would non related 1 1/2 year old children become autistic over night worldwide? What would be the common denominator?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Given that children spend far less than 50% of their time unobserved, how do they know to only have seizures when no parent is going to be around to see or hear?

Children do not sleep when you sleep, to your pattern. The majority of their sleeping time is observed, by parents keeping an eye on them. Children who are showing other symptoms sleep in the same room. If the kid has a siezure and thrashes around, chokes, or makes other noises, the parents either hear it in the room or on the monitor.

Why do you assume there would be no other symptoms that would cause the condition to be reported?

On no level does your supposition make any sense unless you are apparently accussing all parents of your own level of ineptitude.

You need to read your posts.

how do they know to only have seizures when no parent is going to be around to see or hear?

??
I never said anything close to that.


Why do you assume there would be no other symptoms that would cause the condition to be reported?

I asked you

If your child has a fever, is sleeping and has a febrile seizure, how would you know he had a seizure if you didn't witness it?

 

[TSR]

Giordano, why would non related 1 1/2 year old children become autistic over night worldwide?

.
Which night was that?

Where is your *proof* that this happened "overnight"?
.

What would be the common denominator?

.
Risk factors include genetics, prenatal and perinatal factors (such as meconium in the amniotic fluid) and neuroanatomical abnormalities (esp. of the frontal and temporal lobes).

Your turn: Why did the diagnostic rate for ASD continue to rise in the UK after 1998 when the innoculation reate dropped from ~92% to below 80%? In Japan, MMR use has been discontinued altogether since 1992, and yet diagnostic rates there continue to rise as well.
.

 

[Craig4]

Hard to find amidst all the uninformed posts you make.

Of course given his other areas of interests one must take the claim about his son with a grain of salt.

 

[abaddon]

You need to read your posts.

how do they know to only have seizures when no parent is going to be around to see or hear?

You are assuming the requirement of proof. Where's your evidence?

I never said anything close to that.

Yup, you did.

Why do you assume there would be no other symptoms that would cause the condition to be reported?

Because I have two children and I am sensitive to their troubles.

I asked you

Yet presented no answer.

 

[excaza]

What would be the common denominator?

How many times are you going to keep asking this? Until someone says vaccines?

 

[beren]

Giordano, why would non related 1 1/2 year old children become autistic over night worldwide? What would be the common denominator?

The common denominator is being 1 1/2. Look, it is right there in your post.

As for "over night" that is a lie.

 

[Tomtomkent]

It is a correlation to the mmr jab. The same correlation could be made to a change of diet, sleeping habits, or spending more time with other kids.

There is no evidence to support the link to MMR. The only peer review study to claim this was a stinking heap of poop that relied on falsified data.

But why bother saying that. This is a guy who is apparently aware of how many seizures kids have had, which have gone unreported because nobody was aware of them.

So... er... whats the evidence they happened if nobody noticed them?

 

[Clayton Moore]

It is a correlation to the mmr jab. The same correlation could be made to a change of diet, sleeping habits, or spending more time with other kids.

There is no evidence to support the link to MMR. The only peer review study to claim this was a stinking heap of poop that relied on falsified data.

But why bother saying that. This is a guy who is apparently aware of how many seizures kids have had, which have gone unreported because nobody was aware of them.

So... er... whats the evidence they happened if nobody noticed them?

I asked you

Quote:
If your child has a fever, is sleeping and has a febrile seizure, how would you know he had a seizure if you didn't witness it?

I don't know of any. That was the point of my asking you.

But why bother saying that. This is a guy who is apparently aware of how many seizures kids have had, which have gone unreported because nobody was aware of them.

I am aware that febrile seizures are caused by fevers and don't necessarily occur when parents are watching their child.

It's like I'm hearing the French are coming the French are coming.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I don't know of any. That was the point of my asking you.

So you are suggesting an amount of events have occured, on the precept that NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY KNOW, despite:
a) Parenting habits of most families making this incredibly unlikely,
b) You having no evidence anywhere near the estimated number of events having occured.

and best of all:
c) There not being any possibility of evidence, because nobody would be aware of it having happened.

I am aware that febrile seizures are caused by fevers and don't necessarily occur when parents are watching their child.
.

Yet somehow, with out the seizures leaving any trace or other symptom, you know how many have gone unobserved, undetected and unreported? How? Does your magic 8Ball give you the information?

 

[Clayton Moore]

So you are suggesting an amount of events have occured, on the precept that NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY KNOW, despite:
a) Parenting habits of most families making this incredibly unlikely,
b) You having no evidence anywhere near the estimated number of events having occured.

and best of all:
c) There not being any possibility of evidence, because nobody would be aware of it having happened.



Yet somehow, with out the seizures leaving any trace or other symptom, you know how many have gone unobserved, undetected and unreported? How? Does your magic 8Ball give you the information?

I know that there are 24 hours in a day and fevers don't tell time. Nor do febrile seizures.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I know that there are 24 hours in a day and fevers don't tell time. Nor do febrile seizures.

So how can you assume they happen when there is nobody around to witness them? Let alone make a claim of how many have happened, when, by your own description, nobody would be aware that they have happened?

Why would it matter what time as the majority of modern parents pay attention to a child showing other symptoms and would maximise their chances of becoming aware?

You have plucked an estimate of 50% from the air, and have no way of justifying it.

 

[Robrob]

I know that there are 24 hours in a day and fevers don't tell time. Nor do febrile seizures.

That would be the imaginary seizures no one saw or recorded but you "know" are responsible for your CT claims?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Do you think a parent wouldn't notice their child's legs twitching, their eyes opening, their breathing becoming irregular, vomiting and foaming at the mouth as they "sleep?"

I have to ask you again: have you ever had children yourself? I ask because parents become extremely attuned to their child's normal behavior, awake and asleep, and you or your spouse are typically within 20 feet of the child for most of the first 5 years of their life. You can recognize your own child's cry, and it will immediately wake you up. It took me years after my own children grew up to sleep soundly again. And you expect parents to routinely not notice the seizures you describe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febrile_seizure




Causes

The direct cause of a febrile seizure is not known; however, it is normally precipitated by a recent upper respiratory infection or gastroenteritis. A febrile seizure is the effect of a sudden rise in temperature (>39°C/102°F) rather than a fever that has been present for a prolonged length of time.[2] As well as this, parents caring for children who may be febrile, wrap them up in warm blankets in an attempt to comfort the child, unknowingly increasing their fever and therefore the problem.

Febrile seizures occurring in children between the ages of 6 months and about 6 years can be due to a hypersensitive hypothalamus in the brain. The hypothalamus is responsible for homeostatic core temperature regulation, (amongst other factors) and in younger children it is still a developing portion of the brain, meaning it is susceptible to hypersensitive reactions to slight raises in body temperature.

Febrile seizures represent the meeting point between a low seizure threshold (genetically and age-determined; some children have a greater tendency to have seizures under certain circumstances) and a trigger, which is fever. The genetic causes of febrile seizures are still being researched. Some mutations that cause a neuronal hyperexcitability (and could be responsible for febrile seizures) have already been discovered.

Symptoms

During simple febrile seizures, the body will become stiff and the arms and legs will begin twitching. The patient loses consciousness, although their eyes remain open. Breathing can be irregular. They may become incontinent (wet or soil themselves); they may also vomit or have increased secretions (foam at the mouth). The seizure normally lasts for less than five minutes.

May in this instance means may or may not.

Can in this instance means may or may not.



A febrile seizure is the effect of a sudden rise in temperature (>39°C/102°F) rather than a fever that has been present for a prolonged length of time.

Kinda looks like a sudden rise in temperature doesn't jive with a concerned parent on high alert.

 

[Clayton Moore]

It will be difficult to refute this.

http://www.naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=2969467AE82B11FA08943967096BFDA0


http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/dr-wakefield-demands-british-medical-journal-retract-story/

January 30, 2011
Dr. Wakefield Demands British Medical Journal Retract Report.

Filed under: HOME — nwqfk @ 3:15 p01
Tags: dr. andrew wakefield vindicated, Dr. Wakefield Autism, Dr. Wakefield Fraud, Dr. Wakefield retraction, Dr. Wakefield vaccines, Dr. Wakefield verdict, Dr. Wakefild case, Dr. Wakefiled Lancet, Dr.Wakefield Study

Dr. Wakefield Demands British Medical Journal Retract Story. Documents prove innocence from allegations of vaccine autism data fraud. SEE VIDEO INTERVIEW WITH DR. WAKEFIELD BELOW.

I have but one question for the pro vaccine individuals out there who come to read these findings.
Why does something like this involve NOT A DRUG BUT A VACCINE? Why is it ALWAYS vaccines that are in the center of lies and deceit by government, the corporate media and the pharmaceutical companies?
WHY?

Wasn’t it the Lame Stream Corporate Media who said after they burned Dr. Wakefield to the proverbial cross of world exposure that “the vaccine / autism question was over once and for all”? Not only were THEY wrong but, these recent FACTS have opened up an even bigger can of worms for the vaccine pushers.

Bullet Points
1.) Documents Prove Dr. Wakefield’s Innocence / Freelance Journalist’s Guilt.

2.) British Medical Journal Board Member On Board Of the Drug Company That Makes The Very Vaccine in Question.

3.) Freelance Journalist Brian Deer Connected to Rupert Murdock Media Machine. Rupert Murdock Financially Connected To the Vaccine Industry. Please read.

4.) Brian Deer Falsified HIS NAME To Get Access To Grieving Mother Connected To Research Report.

5.) The British Medical Journal DID NOT CHECK BRIAN DEER’S FACTS. WHY?

7.) Dr. Wakefield’s Studies HAVE BEEN REPLICATED in over 30 + government and university studies / field research going all the way back to the 1930′s!

8.) Judge In Wakefield Kangaroo Court Major Stockholder In Company That Made Vaccine. Mouthed Off to The Media… “Vaccines SHOULD BE FORCED ON POPULATION!”

9.) Dr. Wakefield Says Children Will Suffer The Most From This Witch Hunt.