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Republicans think you don't pay enough tax.

eeyore1954 said:
I doubt it once you take earned income credit into account.

A family earning 30,000 with two children will receive a refund of over 5000 with no withholding. Their FICA is about 2300 at 7.65%.
Assuming I entered the number correctly at a tax calc site
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Net taxes, not income taxes.

????
The amount of an earned income credit is unaffected by the amount of Social Security taxes paid, and vice versa. It is a simple fact that the wealthy pay a lower percentage of their income in social security taxes than do the poor (or middle income earners).

A family of 4 making 30K a year before taxes would have a take home salary of about 32K* - and they would spend virtually every penny on taxable goods. Poor(er) people in America pay a lower percentage in income taxes, but a much higher percentage in Social Security and sales/use taxes. In my posts, I have been as accurate as I can be - I'm not trying to trap with semantics. The poor pay more in net taxes as a percentage of total income than do the rich, generally.


*making the generous assumption that they would pay no state or local income taxes.
 
sarge said:
Net taxes, not income taxes.

????
The amount of an earned income credit is unaffected by the amount of Social Security taxes paid, and vice versa. It is a simple fact that the wealthy pay a lower percentage of their income in social security taxes than do the poor (or middle income earners).

A family of 4 making 30K a year before taxes would have a take home salary of about 32K* - and they would spend virtually every penny on taxable goods. Poor(er) people in America pay a lower percentage in income taxes, but a much higher percentage in Social Security and sales/use taxes. In my posts, I have been as accurate as I can be - I'm not trying to trap with semantics. The poor pay more in net taxes as a percentage of total income than do the rich, generally.


*making the generous assumption that they would pay no state or local income taxes.
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I think the difference between us is I am considering the EIC as a negative tax and you are considering it as increased wages.

The way I view it is during 2012 the family of four earning 30,000 will pay zero income taxes but received various refundable tax credits (EIC and child tax credit) for about 5,000.
They will paid 2300 in FICA assuming no 2% reduction. So the net federal taxes is a negative number. According to the way I view it they paid zero federal and zero FICA or they paid FICA and got a credit to refund the FICA they paid.

I don't think it is an overly generous statement that they will pay no state income taxes. I think in the 3 most populous states they would pay zero taxes. NY has its own version of EIC and California has generous credits and Texas has no state taxes. I believe over 20 states have their own EIC.

For sales taxes many staples in most states are not subject to sales tax. The biggest portion of a poor persons budget would probably be spent on items not subject to sales tax. Gas taxes are certainly an exception to this though.

In no way am i implying that poor people do not have a very tough row to hoe.
 
eeyore1954 said:
...

In no way am i implying that poor people do not have a very tough row to hoe.
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And that was just made harder.

I can't see it.

And with Republicans whinging on and on about how they want to lower our taxes, this move makes no sense.

Then again, they had most of 8 years in which they could get anything they wanted, and taxes for the middle and lower income levels did not go down.'

Why is that?

Are they only against taxes in election years?

Or did they simply find that in practical terms, you CANNOT lower taxes without paying costs even they quail at paying?
 
BenBurch said:
And that was just made harder.

I can't see it.
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Don't give up the ship yet. The payroll tax extension is not dead yet. Unless it happened in the last hour or so.


Then again, they had most of 8 years in which they could get anything they wanted, and taxes for the middle and lower income levels did not go down.'
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I am not sure what you mean, the Bush tax cuts lowered taxes for all brackets not just the top earners. And Reagan also lower individual tax rate dramatically not just for the top earners.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
Apparently, it has to be connected to an oil pipeline.
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My conjecture is that this was a tit-for-tat House to Senate, ever since the Ryan proposal Senate Dems have refused to even debate several House Rep bills as passed.

That, and approving the Keystone pipeline may add jobs and improve what is currently Obama's crummy economy. Let it alone and improve the Rep presidential nominee's chances.
 
BenBurch said:
I don't think you have looked at what it will COST us, and how little oil we will actually get.
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or at the true number of jobs it would create (namely a tenth of what some folks quote...)

I suppose there will be a number of folk employed to clean up the inevitable spills.
 
AlBell said:
My conjecture is that this was a tit-for-tat House to Senate, ever since the Ryan proposal Senate Dems have refused to even debate several House Rep bills as passed.

That, and approving the Keystone pipeline may add jobs and improve what is currently Obama's crummy economy. Let it alone and improve the Rep presidential nominee's chances.
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the keystone pipeline will carry the dirtiest crude on the planet, from the alberta tar sands, which are an environmental disaster, through sensitive territory, to be refined in texas and loaded on tankers to pollute the oceans.
it is a disaster waiting to happen.
and when, not 'if' it ruptures and begins to leak, it will be a three thousand mile soaker hose.
some of you folks live in a dream world.
 
bikerdruid said:
the keystone pipeline will carry the dirtiest crude on the planet, from the alberta tar sands, which are an environmental disaster, through sensitive territory, to be refined in texas and loaded on tankers to pollute the oceans.
it is a disaster waiting to happen.
and when, not 'if' it ruptures and begins to leak, it will be a three thousand mile soaker hose.
some of you folks live in a dream world.
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Great. Numbers please. Quantify the problems so we can have an actual debate.
 
Sure!
http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

Highlights:
Permanent jobs created: 50 (It's a pipeline. what did you expect?)
Temporary: 2000 (It's a pipeline. They are not trying to rebuild the pyramids with period tools)
Steel for the pipes not manufactured in the US
Right now Keystone stops in cushing oklahoma, so it is not requiered to import tarsands into the US, since oklahoma already is in the US.
 
Ziggurat said:
Yeah: our children! Smug little bastards.
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that ignorant drongo from Pajamas Media needs to get out of his pjs and get dressed and go out and look at what is going on in the world.

The Democratrs are not talking about billing that idiot's kids for ther sins of Bush the Lesser and his merry morons. We're talking about taking it out of the hides of the parasites whom the morons called "job creators," whom they fed with the fat of the land, and who have not given back a bleedin' thing for what they took out of the social safety net.

And now those fast assed slugs expect geezers like me to work until they do a face plant on the grill at McD's.

Screw PJM. It is not an intellectual beacon to anyone with an IQ over 75.
 
KoihimeNakamura said:
Great. Numbers please. Quantify the problems so we can have an actual debate.
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No numbers, but it is what is termed very heavy, sour crude.

Heavy means it is all long chain molecules that have not been in the earth long enough to have broken down very far. This is the least useful sort of crude. It is expensive to refine, and refineries have to be built to handle that sort. It takes a large energy input to get light volatiles such as gasoline from it, so a considerable fraction of what you do get out of the ground and to the pipeline is wasted.

Sour means that it has a lot of sulphur in it. Sulfur must be removed from the petroleum as it is refined. In some places there are HUGE sulphur plies where the refinery just dumps all the sulphur, more is made than can be sold as a byproduct. This also adds to the costs.

ETA; http://www.flickr.com/photos/pembina/3791986017/in/photostream/
 
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GOP caves.

I guess the Republicans just agreed to deplete the SSI fund? Oh, right. That was just a lie that didn't take. In reality, the money comes from the general fund, and that talking point will go straight down the memory hole.
 
Unabogie said:
GOP caves.

I guess the Republicans just agreed to deplete the SSI fund? Oh, right. That was just a lie that didn't take. In reality, the money comes from the general fund, and that talking point will go straight down the memory hole.
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A talking point repeated by a conservative blogger who posts here, and puts users on ignore when they call him on his easily falsifiable talking points, like this.

Daredelvis
 
Unabogie said:
GOP caves.

I guess the Republicans just agreed to deplete the SSI fund? Oh, right. That was just a lie that didn't take. In reality, the money comes from the general fund, and that talking point will go straight down the memory hole.
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I wish I could paste in the little angry birds noise the birds make when they have done in the last pig...
 
Will there be an other thread in 1 1/2 months on how Republicans want you to pay more taxes.
Actually there should be one every year also because when it is not extended it will mean Republicans want you to pay more taxes.

At least that man will be able to have pizza nights with his twin girls now or that other man will get 3 days worth of oil and I won't have to see what it is like to live in a home with no heat if I disagree with extending the cut.
 
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