Vaccines: how do I talk to my anti-vac wife about it?

[Tomblvd]

Tomblvd, There's no denying that vaccines have an effect.

Your change in position is noted.

The questions are 1) is it a beneficial effect

Well, most people consider NOT getting a disease as "beneficial".

2) is it worth the suffering and death caused by the vaccine?

You have yet to prove any "suffering and death" that would be greater than the actual disease, in ANY case.

 

[Stomatopoda]

Imagine accusing doctors, pharma and their political leaders of working contrary to the best interest of the public!!!

So...
distributing vaccines quickly = bad
distributing vaccines slowly = bad.

Seems perfectly logical.

 

[Tatyana]

Oh, ye of little faith. May I call your attention to the article below which explores the interesting twist in the vaccination saga referred to as “serotype replacement” (or “replacement disease” in other circumstances.) It's no surprise that with the arrogance of the medical industry, they would ASSume that they know better than nature and the inherent intelligence of the human body. (Where else have we seen "experts" interfere with the delicate balance of an eco-system only to bring misery, disease and death to the inhabitants? Oh yes, the European invasion of the Americas!) It's more stupid than thinking a yoghurt will "fix" your gut flora imbalance and much more dangerous.

You cited a crappy anonymous blog.

Seriously?

Is that you proof?

You are one of the new generation of anti-intelletuals that is going to throw the USA into a new dark ages.

Well done.

 

[Senex]

Bare bottom spanking. Your wife is being naughty. Many people might say it is sexist but you spank her and tell her it is over and if she doesn't want a repeat she will agree with you.

Personally, I would like her to disagree again. Stubborn women can be the sexiest.

Personal experience.

 

[trusetheeker]

Holy crap, I can't believe you are using the Andrew Wakefield example.

Holy crap, I can't believe you locked into the name "Wakefield" and completely disregarded Deers' comments about "scientists"
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I can't believe you want further studies.

Personally I want scientists and the medical industry to stop their Frankenstein experiments with our health and well-being.

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Go on, tell me how you would tell a vaccine would work based on a lab test.

I assert you have no flipping idea what you are talking about.

Either there's a bit of confusion here or you've lost your marbles due to the "Wakefield" name! I was merely agreeing that you could prove that the vaccine does what you want it to in a lab test. What you can't do is prove that it won't have any adverse affects when unleashed on the general public. And before you argue with that point, remind yourself how many licensed drugs (yes, you don't believe that vaccines count as drugs!) get pulled off the shelves when the body count finally stacked up enough to get serious attention.

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We have had vaccination for over 200 years, and if you consider variolation by the Chinese (also for small pox), then we have had 'innoculation' for over 1000 years.

The studies are in, vaccination works.

As a species, we should have "had it" with this nonsense by now but each time we start to win, the real quacks use their influence with politicians and the superstitious to bring us back under their thumbs. I tend to agree with those who say, take the profit out of vaccinations and it's supporters would soon desert it.

However, as you are a scientific cretin, I am not surprised.

Name calling? That really makes your point.

 

[excaza]

12 pages in, still arguing from ignorance. What ever happened to 'digging in and learning,' TS?

 

[Tomblvd]

As a species, we should have "had it" with this nonsense by now but each time we start to win, the real quacks use their influence with politicians and the superstitious to bring us back under their thumbs. I tend to agree with those who say, take the profit out of vaccinations and it's supporters would soon desert it.

So within a dozen posts you have gone from "There's no denying that vaccines have an effect" to vaccines being "nonsense"?

Which is it?

You also made this puzzling statement earlier:

The bodies inability to mount an acute "disease" means that it cannot detoxify itself efficiently which is just storing up for something worse in the future.

I asked for clarification, but none was given. What does this statement mean?

 

[Anders Lindman]

"Since the mid-1980s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 24 shots by 2 years of age and five shots in a single visit." -- http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine...ine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html

How do they know how to safely combine five different vaccines to a 2-year-old child at the same visit?

 

[Anders Lindman]

Horror scenario in the future if something better than vaccines isn't invented:

"Since the mid-2030s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 10 000 shots by 2 years of age and five hundred shots in a single visit."

 

[Tomblvd]

"Since the mid-1980s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 24 shots by 2 years of age and five shots in a single visit." -- http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine...ine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html

How do they know how to safely combine five different vaccines to a 2-year-old child at the same visit?

What is it that makes the five vaccines at one visit dangerous?

 

[ehcks]

Horror scenario in the future if something better than vaccines isn't invented:

"Since the mid-2030s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 10 000 shots by 2 years of age and five hundred shots in a single visit."

The very idea of vaccinations is that if you do them properly, the target diseases go extinct and you don't have to vaccinate anymore.

So your scenario would require, if anything, more people deciding not to vaccinate; not more vaccines.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

industry to stop their Frankenstein experiments with our health and well-being.

Yes, its shocking how this horrible western frankenstein stuff has dropped infant mortality to virtually nothing and raised the live expectancy of the world to such an extent that it's doubled since these frankenstein experiments began.
All so they can make money of us for longer.

So, the average natural livespan of a human living without all those frankenstein experiments and western comforts is about 40 ish.

I'm going with the frankensteins and intent to live longer, but I'm glad to hear that there are those that seek to prevent overpopulation.

 

[Anders Lindman]

What is it that makes the five vaccines at one visit dangerous?

I have heard that combining drugs can result in different effects. Can't that apply to vaccines? And if not then how do they know that?

 

[Tomblvd]

I have heard that combining drugs can result in different effects. Can't that apply to vaccines? And if not then how do they know that?

Vaccines aren't drugs, they are specific antigens (proteins and polysaccharides) used to provoke an immune response.

Completely different things.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Yes, its shocking how this horrible western frankenstein stuff has dropped infant mortality to virtually nothing and raised the live expectancy of the world to such an extent that it's doubled since these frankenstein experiments began.
All so they can make money of us for longer.

So, the average natural livespan of a human living without all those frankenstein experiments and western comforts is about 40 ish.

I'm going with the frankensteins and intent to live longer, but I'm glad to hear that there are those that seek to prevent overpopulation.

Yeah, but let's hope that something better than vaccines is invented. Five vaccines jammed into a baby at the same visit sounds kind of like torture. And if you want to live longer, then check out this presentation of the book Transcend: Nine Steps to Living Well Forever by Ray Kurzweil and Terry Grossman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvnBZ6Cn8Kk

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[Capsid]

I have heard that combining drugs can result in different effects. Can't that apply to vaccines? And if not then how do they know that?

The immune response has the capability to respond to 10^12 antigens. There are only about several hundred in 5 vaccines. Everyday we are exposed to thousands of antigens from bacteria just by eating food and breathing. Plus all vaccines are tested exhaustively in small mammals such as rabbits and guinea pigs in which high doses of the vaccine are given in the combinations used in humans. The immune response of small mammals is very similar to that of humans.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Vaccines aren't drugs, they are specific antigens (proteins and polysaccharides) used to provoke an immune response.

Completely different things.

Still, they need to show that it is safe to combine five vaccines into a baby at the same time. They can't just assume it's safe to do that. Surely the FDA demands that scientific evidence for the safety of that is required?

 

[Tomblvd]

. Five vaccines jammed into a baby at the same visit sounds kind of like torture.

"Sounds" only if you have no clue about immunology.

 

[Anders Lindman]

The immune response has the capability to respond to 10^12 antigens. There are only about several hundred in 5 vaccines. Everyday we are exposed to thousands of antigens from bacteria just by eating food and breathing. Plus all vaccines are tested exhaustively in small mammals such as rabbits and guinea pigs in which high doses of the vaccine are given in the combinations used in humans. The immune response of small mammals is very similar to that of humans.

But there are other chemicals in the vaccines. Five vaccines into a baby means a huge dose of those other chemicals, doesn't it?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

But there are other chemicals in the vaccines. Five vaccines into a baby means a huge dose of those other chemicals, doesn't it?

Are you talking about 5 different injections, or the 5 in 1 vaccine (DTap/IPV/Hib)?