Merged So there was melted steel

GlennB · Nov 8, 2011

Tomtomkent said:
I thought mm had said the fire would be choked of oxygen and would go out unless fed with thermite.

None of us really understands what MM is hammering on about really, but the best I can make of it is that it's just the steady fall and ignition of thermitic dust that drives up the temperature of some 'pocket' to the melting point of steel.

How this dust survives passage through the zone which is way above its ignition point but way below 1500°C is yet another mystery that MM will fail to explain.

Miragememories · Nov 9, 2011

Miragememories said:
"Choke the fire and unless it is receiving a steady stream of falling nanothermitic dust, it will be extinguished.

As Dave so nicely pointed out, "...if the fire is buried, it's insulated, so it's harder for the heat to escape..."

Which accounts for what was observed in the WTC Ground Zero debris pile."

Zeuzzz said:
Is that a joke?

Miragememories said:
"Did I use a confusing word?

My intent was to suggest a fire situation where there was insufficient ambient oxygen to sustain it.

If you look back in this thread you will understand my reference to nanothermitic dust, even if you don't agree with it.

No offense but I fail to see the joke?"

Zeuzzz said:
"Ok MM I could look back but I simply don't have the time. Link maybe?

This is my problem on this forum. I don't have the time to even look into all the details and mechanics of the official story let alone every conspiracy theory that is put forward."

sheeplesnshills · Nov 9, 2011

Miragememories said:
Well here are a sampling of links to what I was theorizing.

The topic pretty much got buried (no pun intended) after about page 15.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7596646&postcount=264

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7598397&postcount=299

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7598403&postcount=300

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7599998&postcount=397

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7601610&postcount=439

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7602545&postcount=459

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7603077&postcount=473

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7603489&postcount=482

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7603657&postcount=487

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7606294&postcount=509

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7609024&postcount=538

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7609196&postcount=542

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7625408&postcount=712

MM

No seriously, this is a joke isn't it??

dafydd · Nov 9, 2011

sheeplesnshills said:
No seriously, this is a joke isn't it??

Yes.

jaydeehess · Nov 9, 2011

dafydd said:
Yes.

Well, to most of us its a joke but MM really wants this to be taken seriously.

MM has rubble burning underground but the oxygen running out and the fire thus choking, all the while though thermitic dust is filtering down through the rubble in great enough quantity to ignite in the hot underground and thus keep the temperatures there high even though by this time little or no carbon fuels are still burning due to the fact that although dust CAN get through not enough oxygen apparently can.

Rather a special arrangement designed specifically to fit MM political motivations.

triforcharity · Nov 10, 2011

Not to mention the problem that the huge underground fire will consume more oxygen than thermite produces. Thermite reactions are self sustaining. However, to provide enough for the thermite reaction, PLUS the huge underground fires, is unreasonable.

In fact, impossible.

Zeuzzz · Nov 10, 2011

dafydd said:
Yes.

I think it is a joke, I have read through a most of the posts MM linked to and found nothing at all related to how "a fire situation where there was insufficient ambient oxygen to sustain it" which uses "nanothermitic dust" instead would work.

Cl1mh4224rd · Nov 10, 2011

Zeuzzz said:
I think it is a joke, I have read through a most of the posts MM linked to and found nothing at all related to how "a fire situation where there was insufficient ambient oxygen to sustain it" which uses "nanothermitic dust" instead would work.

He may not be entirely serious about the idea, but I doubt it's a joke to him; he just seems to be throwing crap against the wall, hoping he'll stumble upon a combination of words that stymies certain folk here, thus proving his superior knowledge and intellectual capacity.

Dave Rogers · Nov 10, 2011

Zeuzzz said:
I think it is a joke, I have read through a most of the posts MM linked to and found nothing at all related to how "a fire situation where there was insufficient ambient oxygen to sustain it" which uses "nanothermitic dust" instead would work.

I wouldn't be so sure that MM is joking. This is the person who thinks that zero acceleration is "near freefall", that an object at zero instantaneous velocity must have zero acceleration, that a decrease in acceleration is a deceleration, and that referring to events having occurred before an arbitrary T=0 implies time travel. Compared to these basic errors, the idea of nanothermitic dust gradually trickling down on to a fire through holes too small to admit an oxygen molecule is almost plausible.

Dave

Oystein · Nov 10, 2011

Dave Rogers said:
I wouldn't be so sure that MM is joking. This is the person who thinks that zero acceleration is "near freefall", that an object at zero instantaneous velocity must have zero acceleration, that a decrease in acceleration is a deceleration, and that referring to events having occurred before an arbitrary T=0 implies time travel. Compared to these basic errors, the idea of nanothermitic dust gradually trickling down on to a fire through holes too small to admit an oxygen molecule is almost plausible.

Dave

Great post

Miragememories · Nov 10, 2011

Dave Rogers said:
I wouldn't be so sure that MM is joking. This is the person who thinks that zero acceleration is "near freefall", that an object at zero instantaneous velocity must have zero acceleration, that a decrease in acceleration is a deceleration, and that referring to events having occurred before an arbitrary T=0 implies time travel. Compared to these basic errors, the idea of nanothermitic dust gradually trickling down on to a fire through holes too small to admit an oxygen molecule is almost plausible.

Dave

As I already said, I am not joking and I realize my posts represent an unproven theory.

It was my impression that this thread was founded on an interest in explaining the molten metal and long lasting hotspots in the WTC debris piles.

The rest of what you said about me is false and a total misrepresentation David.

Lying is permitted at JREF so there is little I can do when you misrepresent me.

MM

sheeplesnshills · Nov 11, 2011

Miragememories said:
Lying is permitted at JREF so there is little I can do when you misrepresent me.

MM

Cl1mh4224rd · Nov 11, 2011

Miragememories said:
The rest of what you said about me is false and a total misrepresentation David.

Untrue.

NoahFence · Nov 11, 2011

It was my impression that this thread was founded on an interest in explaining the molten metal and long lasting hotspots in the WTC debris piles.

Furnace effect.

Next?

George 152 · Nov 11, 2011

Miragememories said:
Lying is permitted at JREF so there is little I can do when you misrepresent me.

MM

Some-one doesn't want to be here

NoahFence · Nov 11, 2011

He can stay as long as he wants....since lying is permitted and all.

sheeplesnshills · Nov 11, 2011

Miragememories said:
It was my impression that this thread was founded on an interest in explaining the molten metal and long lasting hotspots in the WTC debris piles.

MM

As usual you misunderstand the premise of the thread. No one has disputed there were molten metals and long lasting hotspots. The thread premise was that one of these molten metal was "Steel" and how it could possibly have been steel and so far the only plausible answer is a furnace effect.

Dave Rogers · Nov 12, 2011

Miragememories said:
The rest of what you said about me is false and a total misrepresentation David.

Not true. It is all sourced from statements that you have not only made, but vigorously defended.

Miragememories said:
Lying is permitted at JREF so there is little I can do when you misrepresent me.

Except take advantage of that permission, I see.

Dave

GlennB · Nov 12, 2011

Miragememories said:
As I already said, I am not joking and I realize my posts represent an unproven theory.

If you're serious then why do you not address the seemingly fatal flaws in this theory of yours when they have been pointed out to you, here, recently?

How does the thermitic dust get into this compartment when air, it seems, is excluded?

How does it survive the trip down there through areas well above its supposed ignition temperature?

How does such a low %age of thermite in this 'falling dust' manage to raise the average temperature of all the contents of the compartment up to ~1500C?

and so on.

You seem happy enough to propose a theory which, on first glance, appears totally absurd but then ignore criticism of it. I suspect this is why some think you're trolling.

jaydeehess · Nov 13, 2011

Miragememories said:
As I already said, I am not joking and I realize my posts represent an unproven theory.

It represents a ridiculous theory designed only to address the temps underground.

Its quite clear that your theory is undefensible yet you persist in promoting it. The only reason I can come up with for that action is your ardent desire to make the destruction of 911 be that of a vast political undertaking by a shadowy cadre of powerful people who control the world rather than the result of actions taken by a fanatic group who have publically declared war on the USA and Western countries and who are the (figurative) descendants of those who have in the past hijacked multiple aircraft, used suicide car bombs and their belief in Allah as the basis for their actions.

It was my impression that this thread was founded on an interest in explaining the molten metal and long lasting hotspots in the WTC debris piles.

Perhaps you should re-read the OP then to clear up that errorneous impression.

The idea was to begin with an acceptance that there was indeed molten steel (and therefore, hot spots underground capable of producing molten steel) , and to then explain how the presence of it fits into a conspiratorial method by which the towers were brought down.

The bulk of responses from the conspiracy side of the debate has been to argue for the presence of molten steel WHICH IS NOT the topic of the debate at all.

Travis the also asked a few other specific questions most of which go un-addressed.
hilite and bolds mine

Travis said:
Yes in this thread I won't even contend there was no molten steel. I will do this so that I can finally get some answers as to how the presence of it means anything malicious.As such I would like to know:

Is this supposed to mean thermite was used?

If so how much thermite (a self oxidizing agent) is needed to still be reacting six weeks after initiation?

Why are other avenues of steel melting (such as in a rare natural furnace effect) dismissed?

Since liquids follow the path of least resistance they will pool at the bottom of the bathtub. How was the steel that solidified there removed and where did it go?

tmd took a shot explaining that if there was molten steel and there should not be molten steel then that alone proves malicious action (other than the obvious malicious action of flying aircraft containing innocent people into office structures)
Rather an afffirming the consequent logical fallacy but at least it was a response to the OP

Merged So there was melted steel

Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian

Banned

Illuminator

Banned

Penultimate Amazing

Banned

Banned

Philosopher

Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through

Penultimate Amazing

Banned

Illuminator

Philosopher

Banned

Philosopher

Banned

Illuminator

Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through

Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian

Penultimate Amazing