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Australian Federal Election 2010

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Wildy said:
Under what basis would you consider Howard to be the next worst leader?
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Starting a war in Iraq, for which there was no justification would be one.
Claiming to be anti-welfare and low tax while increasing taxes and increasing middle class welfare would be another. He introduced ad hoc welfare measures that served no other purpose than to fish for votes. He blew the first mining boom on his own political career, when Australia desperately needed massive investment on infrastructure, which we are paying for now.
Knowingly lying about 'children overboard'. He started the whole demonisation of refugees as a means of fishing for votes, and he didn't just do it on at least a campaign of evidence, but by deliberately misrepresenting events and forcing the Navy personell to keep quiet on the real story.
Killing off the Republic by setting up a referendum to split the pro republic vote. Most Australians favoured a referendum. He killed that off.
Reducing capital gains tax. Part of the reason for soaring house prices, which has put a home out of reach of so many people, and funnelled investment away from real economic development, towards inflating the prices of existing property which effectively kills wealth, by making a capital gains profit more attractive.
Setting up the Future Fund to try and save his arse from the disaster of the Telstra Float. The Future Fund was created partly just to try to keep the Telstra share price up.

In terms of the Liberal Party, staying put beyond his use by date. It confirmed that it was all about him, not about Australia, or his Party, but about him, and keeping Janette happy with her ideas of grandeur.

If you want the perfect political opportunist, you need look no further.
 
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a_unique_person said:
Starting a war in Iraq, for which there was no justification would be one.
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Howard started the war? Incredible!
Or is it that he supported a coalition force that got rid of a genocidal maniac. It sounds like you resent the loss of Saddam Hussain. Is that true?

a_unique_person said:
Claiming to be anti-welfare and low tax while increasing taxes and increasing middle class welfare would be another.
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Anti-welfare (if he actually ever said that) does not mean cutting people off, nor does it mean he does not serve the people he represents.

a_unique_person said:
He introduced ad hoc welfare measures that served no other purpose than to fish for votes.
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On the other hand, this could be called pragmatism - and a very desirable thing in a politician btw, it means he is listening to his employers. Perhaps he should have just given everyone $900-, that would have been sensible, wouldn't it?

a_unique_person said:
He blew the first mining boom on his own political career, when Australia desperately needed massive investment on infrastructure, which we are paying for now.
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He paid down debt and put money in the bank which allowed us to see out the GFC safely. There is a thing called opportunity cost; one cannot save and spend at the same time.

a_unique_person said:
Knowingly lying about 'children overboard'. He started the whole demonisation of refugees as a means of fishing for votes, and he didn't just do it on at least a campaign of evidence, but by deliberately misrepresenting events and forcing the Navy personell to keep quiet on the real story.
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There is no evidence that he actually "lied" and you know it.
I also find it amazing that you think the Australian public so easily swayed by one persons opinion (Howard) and then won't listen to another's (Gillard).
You don't think people possess their own ability to think, do you? You seem to be a supporter of totalitarianism, is that right?

a_unique_person said:
Killing off the Republic by setting up a referendum to split the pro republic vote. Most Australians favoured a referendum. He killed that off.
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We had a vote, the republic movement lost because they couldn't decide on a model.
Most people have moved on. We will have another opportunity down the track - about another decade I would predict.

a_unique_person said:
Reducing capital gains tax. Part of the reason for soaring house prices, which has put a home out of reach of so many people, and funnelled investment away from real economic development, towards inflating the prices of existing property which effectively kills wealth, by making a capital gains profit more attractive.
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Even if this were true, there are many other factors that contribute to the rising costs of housing. They include things like the burgeoning population and limiting urban land releases. Your narrow views here are telling in terms of how little you actually understand simple economics.

Do you actually have any idea how much the tax was reduced?

You may also be unaware that property prices double every seven to 10 years, Howard's initiatives did effectively nothing to contribute to this as property prices have maintained the same or similar growth rates for generations.

a_unique_person said:
Setting up the Future Fund to try and save his arse from the disaster of the Telstra Float. The Future Fund was created partly just to try to keep the Telstra share price up.
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Just so wrong it is hard to kow where to start. The future fund was set up to cover the massive expenses that are coming with the aging and impending retirements of the public service personnel.
You can't spend money and have it in the bank too. Good fiscal policy here and evidence of not wasting the mining boom.

a_unique_person said:
In terms of the Liberal Party, staying put beyond his use by date.
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An ambitious politician, who'd-a-thought?

a_unique_person said:
It confirmed that it was all about him, not about Australia, or his Party, but about him, and keeping Janette happy with her ideas of grandeur.
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Replace John and Janette with Julia and Tim and see if there is any difference.

a_unique_person said:
If you want the perfect political opportunist, you need look no further.
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Again, think of Gillard when saying this. Knifing Rudd at the first chance, selling out basic Labor platforms to the independants, making promises she couldn't keep etc etc etc.


So out of this very personal, ad hom, perjoritive filled attack there is virtually nothing that he he did that was bad, except be on the wrong side of the political ledger from your perspective.

Howard will be viewed by history as one of our best PMs. Elected four times but ultimately not seeing the signs that he was past his best when voted out. As flawed as any human being but a decent and pragmatic man.

Gillard will be seen as a bad joke.

Worst PM ever.
 
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http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/essential-report/

Meanwhile the latest essential poll shows just how well Gillard is doing:

2PP: 55 to 45.

Yeah, she's doing a great job. ;)

Interestingly there was a poll on the independants in this report on whether they are doing a good job or not. Overwhelmingly they are all not doing a good job.

They also ask whether the Greens and Independants are good or bad for Australia. Again, an overwhelming bad for Australia

The majority of respondents seem to regard the independents and the Greens holding the balance of power in Parliament as bad for Australia (50% bad), whilst 22% regard it is good for the country.

Enthusiasm for the independents and the Greens in federal Parliament fell 6 points since last polled in June 2011, from 28% to 22% of respondents regarding it as good for the country.

At the same time, disdain for the situation has risen considerably since June 2011: from 39% to 50% this time around.
 
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A.A. Alfie said:
Howard started the war? Incredible!
Or is it that he supported a coalition force that got rid of a genocidal maniac. It sounds like you resent the loss of Saddam Hussain. Is that true?
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He was part of the co-alition of lies.

It sounds like you resent the loss of Saddam Hussain. Is that true?
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It sounds nothing like that, since I said nothing like that.
 
This isn't going away just yet.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...son-on-the-cards/story-e6freuzi-1226163390710

LABOR MP Craig Thomson could face up to seven years' jail if charged and found guilty of receiving secret commissions after police confirmed he received an American Express card from a union supplier.

Senior NSW Police have been informed by American Express in the US that Mr Thomson and Health Services Union boss Michael Williamson were both supplied with credit cards by John Gilleland.

Communigraphix, a graphic design business run by Mr Gilleland, has received hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to produce the HSU newsletter, Health Standard.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
What have I ignored? That you said there was "no justification" for the war? What exactly?
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Howard didn't say the war was about overthrowing a tyrant, he said it was about WMD. That was his justification. As was told at the time by Wilkie, the justification was a sham, the evidence was non existent. Howard knowingly sent us to war with a lie for justification.
 
a_unique_person said:
Howard didn't say the war was about overthrowing a tyrant, he said it was about WMD. That was his justification. As was told at the time by Wilkie, the justification was a sham, the evidence was non existent. Howard knowingly sent us to war with a lie for justification.
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The you should have said that. :rolleyes:
What you did say was:

"Starting a war in Iraq, for which there was no justification".

(my bold)

"No justification". To me that means, zero, none, nada. There was a genocidal maniac in power killing thousands of his subjects. Getting rid of his regime was a very good thing and also a very good reason for going to war.

On the lie. To blame Howard for acting on information he had received in good faith from a close friend (the USA), and calling it a deliberate lie, is a huge stretch and you know it.

If you want to rest on this as the reason for him being the worst PM since the 60s, your argument is very slim given the rest of your weak examples were one by one debunked and dismantled. The man was in power for 10 years! Gillard has managed to foul up so much in just 12 months.

Worst PM ever.
 
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A.A. Alfie said:
The you should have said that. :rolleyes:
What you did say was:

"Starting a war in Iraq, for which there was no justification".

(my bold)

"No justification". To me that means, zero, none, nada. There was a genocidal maniac in power killing thousands of his subjects. Getting rid of his regime was a very good thing and also a very good reason for going to war.
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Then you know when the world should have toppled Saddam? After the first Gulf War.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
The you should have said that. :rolleyes:
What you did say was:

"Starting a war in Iraq, for which there was no justification".

(my bold)

"No justification". To me that means, zero, none, nada. There was a genocidal maniac in power killing thousands of his subjects. Getting rid of his regime was a very good thing and also a very good reason for going to war.
Click to expand...

Then let me clarify, the justification given by Howard did not exist.

On the lie. To blame Howard for acting on information he had received in good faith from a close friend (the USA), and calling it a deliberate lie, is a huge stretch and you know it.

If you want to rest on this as the reason for him being the worst PM since the 60s, your argument is very slim given the rest of your weak examples were one by one debunked and dismantled. The man was in power for 10 years! Gillard has managed to foul up so much in just 12 months.
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It was not good faith, Wilkie spilled the beans on that one. The intelligence was just not there. Howard wanted to go to war, because the USA did. Not a good reason. It was an insane act to go to war in Iraq when history showed that wars in Afghanistan invariably turn out to be far more difficult than expected. That is exactly what happened. Maybe, just maybe, the USA and it's allies, with all their forces, could have removed the Taliban and created a peaceful and stable country as a result. When they started the war in Iraq, on the hubristic assumption that Afghanistan would be a pushover, and had to concentrate most of their forces there instead, the whole venture was a dead end. Afghanistan is now a country in chaos and turmoil, with the Taliban just biding their time will the western forces get sick it all and leave. Howard was behind this debacle, and the inevitable and pointless loss of Austalian lives that resulted, not to mention the lives of those living there.
Worst PM ever.
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When it comes to the political skills, she has triumphed over Abbott every time. And again, today. Abbott's attitude and bullying is making him out to be the idiot he truly is. For all the bluster, rhetoric and grandstanding, he lost again.

:wave1
 
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It's a sad day for democracy when a tax we didn't get a chance to vote on, one that is unwanted by the majority of the population, is imposed by a government that categorically promised they wouldn't.
 
Another significant piece of legislation passed by one of the most active commonwealth governments of all time. How many bills have been passed now? Is it up to 300? Have a look at some on the do-nothing state governments like Bailleau's.
 
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