Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[matt.tansy]

Keep in mind these clowns claim to be able to actually find people, things, spaceships by way of their cartographic analysis. As such, the maps must be labeled very very very accurately. Off by a half mile is as good as off by a million miles.

Considering you have been asked a hundred times how far off the LM would have to be to be unable to rendezvous with the CSM and you failed to answer it that is quite a stupid remark to make.

This map grid is skewed as best I can tell, at least 1.3 miles to the northeast, or equivalently, the "moon has been moved" to the southeast from under its overlying coordinate grid.

Uh huh. And how far off was map ORB-II-6?

 

[Patrick1000]

Let's call it the phony LAM 2 MAP

I like how he keeps referring to the map as the "J Map" as if that's what he meant by "Julian" all along.

Yo, Dr. Socks, "radian" refers to a unit of angle, like degrees or steradians. One radian subtends 180/π degrees. Degrees-minutes-seconds format is called "Degrees-minutes-seconds", abbreviated "DMS" (just like on your calculator). Degrees and decimal degrees format is called "decimal degrees", abbreviated "DD".

Let's call it the phony LAM 2 MAP. The map is fake Matt. Show me how I am wrong. This is hard evidence. Perhaps some of the best ever discovered with respect to the Apollo frauds.

 

[Patrick1000]

I think I mentioned long ago I listened to the voice simulation tape

Considering you have been asked a hundred times how far off the LM would have to be to be unable to rendezvous with the CSM and you failed to answer it that is quite a stupid remark to make.


Uh huh. And how far off was map ORB-II-6?

I think I mentioned long ago I listened to the voice transcription tape Matt. I heard Collins and the CapCom say "Juliet". I withdrew my claim that the map reference "J" had anything at all to do with Julian dating.

 

[Patrick1000]

From my LM manual

Considering you have been asked a hundred times how far off the LM would have to be to be unable to rendezvous with the CSM and you failed to answer it that is quite a stupid remark to make.


Uh huh. And how far off was map ORB-II-6?

I have the same LM manual the Astronauts used for introductory study, published July 1964. It does not say anything about what the cross range tolerance is for a launch, how far away the LM can be from a simulated overflying by a simulated command module.

It does say however that lunar orbital rendezvous range is 5 nautical miles from the CSM. Once in orbit, the LM is in rendezvous range when 5 nautical miles away. That is the extent of my knowledge based on my LM manual.

 

[332nd]

Let's call it the phony LAM 2 MAP. The map is fake Matt. Show me how I am wrong. This is hard evidence. Perhaps some of the best ever discovered with respect to the Apollo frauds.

Nope sorry, the map isn't fake. Even if it were in error, it wouldn't override the the pics & moon rocks you keep running from.

 

[Giordano]

I'm sure Patrick is just playing games with us. I don't think he realizes how embarrassing the score is against him.

 

[matt.tansy]

I have the same LM manual the Astronauts used for introductory study, published July 1964. It does not say anything about what the cross range tolerance is for a launch, how far away the LM can be from a simulated overflying by a simulated command module.

It does say however that lunar orbital rendezvous range is 5 nautical miles from the CSM. Once in orbit, the LM is in rendezvous range when 5 nautical miles away. That is the extent of my knowledge based on my LM manual.

Then for you to say:

Off by a half mile is as good as off by a million miles.

was based on hubris and ignorance.

J.5/7.7 on LAM-2, BTW, corresponds to the reconstructed accelerometer coordinates.

 

[Patrick1000]

you need to check my work, you are in trouble son

I'm sure Patrick is just playing games with us. I don't think he realizes how embarrassing the score is against him.

you need to check my work, you are in trouble son

 

[abaddon]

I think I mentioned long ago I listened to the voice simulation tape Matt. I heard Collins and the CapCom say "Juliet". I withdrew my claim that the map reference "J" had anything at all to do with Julian dating.

No, you didn't withdraw your claim at all.

You tried to claim that this was the "julian system" and the numbers were a RA/Dec combination.

Many posters here pointed out your blunder, and even explained, in enormous detail, what you did not understand, Cartesian geometry.

You then ignored all of that freely given data.

Furthermore, once it was explained to you in detail, you hid for a while, hoping the issue would go away.

Then, you returned, pretending you knew all along about Cartesian coordinates. We all know you didn't.

The fact of the matter is you did not withdraw anything, and never admitted you were flat out wrong, and tried to disguise your failure in walls of text.

Here and now, are you admitting your error or not?

 

[Patrick1000]

J .5 and 7.7 are real-time

Then for you to say:


was based on hubris and ignorance.

J.5/7.7 on LAM-2, BTW, corresponds to the reconstructed accelerometer coordinates.

J .5 and 7.7 are real-time, no reconstruction there. See quote from the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal just below.

Read it and weep Matt.

I would get cracking on those numbers fella'. Think you're gonna' need a room in the ICU with abaddon.

123:55:36 Evans: Roger. It's just west of West Crater, Juliet 0.5, 7.7. Over.

[Details from Figure 5-8 (top) from the Apollo 11 Mission Report and from the flown copy of LAM-2 (bottom) show the area immediately around the LM. The center of West Crater is at about Juliet 0.54, 8.03, Little West Crater is at about Juliet 0.64, 7.58 and the actual landing site is at about Juliet 0.65, 7.52. Mike plotted the J.5/7.7 location on the flown copy of LAM-2, with the notation 'Last Bst Pos Prior L/O', where 'L/O' is (LM) 'lift-off'. The distance from the LM's actual location to J.5/7.7 is about 230 meters. This location is almost certainly from P22 data from use of the Rendezvous Radar to track the CSM. With the CSM orbit well know from tracking a certain small crater with the CSM sextant, the calculation was run backwards to determine the LM location. See the discussions following 121:00:34 and 121:07:37.]

 

[abaddon]

you need to check my work, you are in trouble son

I did.

According to you "j" indicates "julian" and map locations are delinated in RA and Dec.

How much wrong can you cram into your brain?

 

[332nd]

you need to check my work, you are in trouble son

Heh, its funny because if we use your "logic" you've proven yourself a fraud. Granted you've done so using actual logic, but for you to insist? Lol!

 

[Patrick1000]

If I was not clear before , I am now

No, you didn't withdraw your claim at all.

You tried to claim that this was the "julian system" and the numbers were a RA/Dec combination.

Many posters here pointed out your blunder, and even explained, in enormous detail, what you did not understand, Cartesian geometry.

You then ignored all of that freely given data.

Furthermore, once it was explained to you in detail, you hid for a while, hoping the issue would go away.

Then, you returned, pretending you knew all along about Cartesian coordinates. We all know you didn't.

I listened to the voice transcript. I heard them say Julian abaddon. That was enough for me. I withdraw my claim. Is that understood?

The fact of the matter is you did not withdraw anything, and never admitted you were flat out wrong, and tried to disguise your failure in walls of text.

Here and now, are you admitting your error or not?

I listened to the voice transcript. I heard them say Julian abaddon. That was enough for me. I withdraw my claim. Is that understood?

AND , I did study that entire NASA coordeinate manual, and NASA does/did use a Julian dating system as/when appropriate. AND for the most part I understood all of that well.

 

[Patrick1000]

Don't think so Redtail, I haven't seen anything substantive about my map claim

Heh, its funny because if we use your "logic" you've proven yourself a fraud. Granted you've done so using actual logic, but for you to insist? Lol!

Don't think so Redtail, I haven't seen anything substantive about my map claim. Suspect you will be on a ventilator soon next to Matt and abaddon. You fellas are in big trouble this time.

 

[abaddon]

J .5 and 7.7 are real-time, no reconstruction there. See quote from the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal just below.

Oops. Real-time in what way? They are coordinates.

Read it and weep Matt.

Yes many are weeping at the low educational level.

I would get cracking on those numbers fella'. Think you're gonna' need a room in the ICU with abaddon.

You have amply demonstrated your numerical accuity in this and other threads.

123:55:36 Evans: Roger. It's just west of West Crater, Juliet 0.5, 7.7. Over.

And?

[Details from Figure 5-8 (top) from the Apollo 11 Mission Report and from the flown copy of LAM-2 (bottom) show the area immediately around the LM. The center of West Crater is at about Juliet 0.54, 8.03, Little West Crater is at about Juliet 0.64, 7.58 and the actual landing site is at about Juliet 0.65, 7.52. Mike plotted the J.5/7.7 location on the flown copy of LAM-2, with the notation 'Last Bst Pos Prior L/O', where 'L/O' is (LM) 'lift-off'. The distance from the LM's actual location to J.5/7.7 is about 230 meters. This location is almost certainly from P22 data from use of the Rendezvous Radar to track the CSM. With the CSM orbit well know from tracking a certain small crater with the CSM sextant, the calculation was run backwards to determine the LM location. See the discussions following 121:00:34 and 121:07:37.]

Oh, good an unattributed quote which provides zero support for your strange contention. This supports your hypothesis in what way?

 

[abaddon]

Don't think so Redtail, I haven't seen anything substantive about my map claim. Suspect you will be on a ventilator soon next to Matt and abaddon. You fellas are in big trouble this time.

That would be because you have nothing substantive to offer.

 

[332nd]

Don't think so Redtail, I haven't seen anything substantive about my map claim. Suspect you will be on a ventilator soon next to Matt and abaddon. You fellas are in big trouble this time.

Sorry, your map claim is false. Wrong. Incorrect. Check your numbers again & you'll see why.

 

[Patrick1000]

Has nothing to do with Julian

I did.

According to you "j" indicates "julian" and map locations are delinated in RA and Dec.

How much wrong can you cram into your brain?

J is the J on the LAM 2 Map. As in D, E, F, G, H, J, K, L, M, N, P ,Q, S, T, U, V. It is one of the LAM 2 Map latitude coordinates. J .65 / 7.52 is 00 40' 15" north and 23 29' 51 east on that map abaddon.

How is it with the map coordinates labeled as they are, with 23 30' 00" east at 7.6 and 00 30' 00" north at roughly D .5, that Tranquility Base can be at one and the same time time at 00 41'15" north / 23 26' 00" east AND J .65 / 7.52? How is that abaddon???

By the way, what size endotracheal tube do you take? I'll meet you in the ICU in half an hour. We'll have a whole ward of you guys in extremis.

 

[matt.tansy]

J .5 and 7.7 are real-time, no reconstruction there. See quote from the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal just below.

Read it and weep Matt.

I would get cracking on those numbers fella'. Think you're gonna' need a room in the ICU with abaddon.

J.5 corresponds to latitude 0.647 N and 7.7 corresponds to longitude 23.5 E. Plot it yourself.

0.647 N 23.505 E is the reconstructed accelerometer position.

 

[abaddon]

J is the J on the LAM 2 Map. As in D, E, F, G, H, J, K, L, M, N, P ,Q, S, T, U, V. It is one of the LAM 2 Map latitude coordinates. J .65 / 7.52 is 00 40' 15" north and 23 29' 51 east on that map abaddon.

How is it with the map coordinates labeled as they are, with 23 30' 00" east at 7.6 and 00 30' 00" north at roughly D .5, that Tranquility Base can be at one and the same time time at 00 41'15" north / 23 26' 00" east AND J .65 / 7.52? How is that abaddon???

By the way, what size endotracheal tube do you take? I'll meet you in the ICU in half an hour. We'll have a whole ward of you guys in extremis.

Thats actually quite funny, given that you were the one who could not understand why "i" and "o" might be omitted from the coordinate system, but then questioned why "13" was not.