Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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JayUtah said:
Indeed. My brother-in-law is a communications officer on a Perry-class FFG, and he doesn't have much good to say about the plumbing. But then again he's in the South Pacific and therefore not in as much of a position to complain about the weather.
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When I was stationed in Japan on shore duty I rode a Perry class for 2 days as part of a surface-submarine exchange program. A few hours after we had pulled out of port some yahoo managed to pump 3 inches of urine and feces into a berthing area. I chose to sleep in the chart house instead.
 
Fraudulent Map Proves Apollo Inauthenticity

Fasten your seat belts boys and girls. This is getting way way way crazy. The LAM 2 map, the one I like to call the "J Map", is fraudulent. There are TWO TRANQUILITY BASE SITES ON THIS MAP. Don't believe me? I'll show you how.


http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/LAM2_CMP-flown.jpg



Look at the top of the map there. To the right of June 1969, you'll see 23 30' 00" E(I added the seconds for clarity) . That looks to occur roughly at longitude line 7.6. The last time I used this longitude line in a calculation, I called it 7.7, but 7.6 looks more appropriate to me now. No big deal, as you'll see, for the purposes of what we are doing here, calling the mark there 7.6 at the top, where 23 30' 00" E occurs, will give us good reliable numbers. Looking to the far right at the top, but just to the left of the LAM 2, one finds 24 00' 00" E. So 30 minutes of arc are divided among 15.4 lines of longitude and one gets; 30 / 15.4 = 1.95 minutes of arc per line of longitude. In my last long post, I was using 1.96, but again, no big, and it does seem the 1.95 probably is the better.

Now note, with each line of longitude representing 1.95 minutes of arc, one should find the halfway point between 23 30" and 24 00" at longitude line; 15.35. And sure enough it is there, just to the right of the 1:100,000 designation.

For the latitudes, going from M to U .75 is 15 minutes of arc or 15 / 7.75, so I get 1.935 minutes of arc per latitude line going from M at 00 45' 00" to U .75 at 01 00' 00".

So these numbers are a little different, though very close to the last ones that I used. The numbers always come out to be about 2 minutes of arc per edge of a small square. Doing it over and over, up to a point, verifies my estimate.

So my "squares" are not quite squares, but are close at 1.935 minutes of arc tall by 1.95 minutes of arc wide.

Now according to NASA's official decree, Tranquility Base is at J .65 and 7.52. From the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal;

123:55:36 Evans: Roger.

It's just west of West Crater, Juliet 0.5, 7.7. Over.
[Details from Figure 5-8 (top) from the Apollo 11 Mission Report and from the flown copy of LAM-2 (bottom) show the area immediately around the LM. The center of West Crater is at about Juliet 0.54, 8.03, Little West Crater is at about Juliet 0.64, 7.58 and the actual landing site is at about Juliet 0.65, 7.52. Mike plotted the J.5/7.7 location on the flown copy of LAM-2, with the notation 'Last Best Pos Prior L/O', where 'L/O' is (LM) 'lift-off'. The distance from the LM's actual location to J.5/7.7 is about 230 meters. This location is almost certainly from P22 data from use of the Rendezvous Radar to track the CSM. With the CSM orbit well know from tracking a certain small crater with the CSM sextant, the calculation was run backwards to determine the LM location. See the discussions following 121:00:34 and 121:07:37

Since one knows J .65 is also 00 41' 15 " N, being the latitude coordinate of Tranquility Base, and since latitude line J is 0.65 X1.935 minutes of arc below 00 41' 15" north, one can readily determine the J latitude line to be just about 00 40' 00" north, right on the button.

Here's where it gets very very very interesting. If LAM 2 Map/ "J Map" longitude line 7.52 represents 23 26' 00" E, then LAM 2/ "J Map" longitude line 8 will be 23 26' 00" E plus 0.48 X 1.95 minutes of arc = 23 26' 56" E. But how can LAM 2/ "J Map" longitude line 8 be 23 26' 56" E when we began with 23 30' 00" E at 7.6 ? In other words, if one places Tranquility Base's longitude at 7.52, then 23 30' 00" no longer makes any sense as marked on the map as it would then be west of 23 26' 56".

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

We can figure it out by first focusing on the "J Map" as originally labeled, with 23 30' 00" E being located at 7.6 . Given this labeling, with 23 30' 00" E at 7.6, one would then find Tranquility Base's longitudinal coordinate , 23 26 00 at 7.6 minus 4/1.95 equals 5.549. Now, Tranquility Base's latitudinal coordinate will of course remain the same, J .65. So we see that if one works with the map as labeled, as originally gridded, with 23 30' 00" east at 7.6 and 00 40' 00" north at J, the Eagle's landing site, Tranquility Base, falls at J .65 / 5.549 A POINT OUTSIDE THE TARGETING ELLIPSE ALTOGETHER ALTOGETHER ALTOGETHER!

Given the way the map is/was originally labeled, J .65 / 7.52 should actually correspond with 00 41' 15" north and 23 29 51" E. So this is nothing less than a sensational find. NASA makes/made the claim that LAM 2 Map/ "J Map" coordinates J .65 and 7.52 corresponded with Tranquility Base so as to FORCE THE COORDINATES TO FALL WITHIN THE PLANNED LANDING ELLIPSE. This way, it would appear the "photographic evidence" for a landing at Tranquility Base, is photographic evidence of a landing at not longitude 23 26' 00" east, but rather 23 29' 51 east. So in order to make things "fit" NASA, the "INNUMERATI" and Map scam artists, simply called J .65 /7.52 Tranquility Base, and said it was at this position, because if they had told us the "truth" about the numbers anyway, we would have discovered 00 41'15" north and 23 26' 00 east, TO THE WEST OF THE PLANNED LANDING ELLIPSE CONFIRMING THE FRAUDULENCE OF THE APOLLO 11 MISSION.

Well!!!, better late than never, the thing is 100% fake and we just proved it!!!
 
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Nope, not seeing it...Sorry, but the abundance of physical evidence, as well as radio transmissions & the historical record trump the voices in your head
 
Patrick1000 said:
Fasten your seat belts boys and girls. This is getting way way way crazy. The LAM 2 map, the one I like to call the "J Map", is fraudulent. There are TWO TRANQUILITY BASE SITES ON THIS MAP. Don't believe me? I'll show you how.


http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/LAM2_CMP-flown.jpg



Look at the top of the map there. To the right of June 1969, you'll see 23 30' 00" E(I added the seconds for clarity) . That looks to occur roughly at longitude line 7.6. The last time I used this longitude line in a calculation, I called it 7.7, but 7.6 looks more appropriate to me now. No big deal, as you'll see, for the purposes of what we are doing here, calling the mark there 7.6 at the top, where 23 30' 00" E occurs, will give us good reliable numbers. Looking to the far right at the top, but just to the left of the LAM 2, one finds 24 00' 00" E. So 30 minutes of arc are divided among 15.4 lines of longitude and one gets; 30 / 15.4 = 1.95 minutes of arc per line of longitude. In my last long post, I was using 1.96, but again, no big, and it does seem the 1.95 probably is the better.

Now note, with each line of longitude representing 1.95 minutes of arc, one should find the halfway point between 23 30" and 24 00" at longitude line; 15.35. And sure enough it is there, just to the right of the 1:100,000 designation.

For the latitudes, going from M to U .75 is 15 minutes of arc or 15 / 7.75, so I get 1.935 minutes of arc per latitude line going from M at 00 45' 00" to U .75 at 01 00' 00".

So these numbers are a little different, though very close to the last ones that I used. The numbers always come out to be about 2 minutes of arc per edge of a small square. Doing it over and over, up to a point, verifies my estimate.

So my "squares" are not quite squares, but are close at 1.935 minutes of arc tall by 1.95 minutes of arc wide.

Now according to NASA's official decree, Tranquility Base is at J .65 and 7.52. From the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal;

123:55:36 Evans: Roger.

It's just west of West Crater, Juliet 0.5, 7.7. Over.
[Details from Figure 5-8 (top) from the Apollo 11 Mission Report and from the flown copy of LAM-2 (bottom) show the area immediately around the LM. The center of West Crater is at about Juliet 0.54, 8.03, Little West Crater is at about Juliet 0.64, 7.58 and the actual landing site is at about Juliet 0.65, 7.52. Mike plotted the J.5/7.7 location on the flown copy of LAM-2, with the notation 'Last Best Pos Prior L/O', where 'L/O' is (LM) 'lift-off'. The distance from the LM's actual location to J.5/7.7 is about 230 meters. This location is almost certainly from P22 data from use of the Rendezvous Radar to track the CSM. With the CSM orbit well know from tracking a certain small crater with the CSM sextant, the calculation was run backwards to determine the LM location. See the discussions following 121:00:34 and 121:07:37

Since one knows J .65 is also 00 41' 15 " N, being the latitude coordinate of Tranquility Base, and since latitude line J is 0.65 X1.935 minutes of arc below 00 41' 15" north, one can readily determine the J latitude line to be just about 00 40' 00" north, right on the button.

Here's where it gets very very very interesting. If LAM 2 Map/ "J Map" longitude line 7.52 represents 23 26' 00" E, then LAM 2/ "J Map" longitude line 8 will be 23 26' 00" E plus 0.48 X 1.95 minutes of arc = 23 26' 56" E. But how can LAM 2/ "J Map" longitude line 8 be 23 26' 56" E when we began with 23 30' 00" E at 7.6 ? In other words, if one places Tranquility Base's longitude at 7.52, then 23 30' 00" no longer makes any sense as marked on the map as it would then be west of 23 26' 56".

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

We can figure it out by first focusing on the "J Map" as originally labeled, with 23 30' 00" E being located at 7.6 . Given this labeling, with 23 30' 00" E at 7.6, one would then find Tranquility Base's longitudinal coordinate , 23 26 00 at 7.6 minus 4/1.95 equals 5.549. Now, Tranquility Base's latitudinal coordinate will of course remain the same, J .65. So we see that if one works with the map as labeled, as originally gridded, with 23 30' 00" east at 7.6 and 00 40' 00" north at J, the Eagle's landing site, Tranquility Base, falls at J .65 / 5.549 A POINT OUTSIDE THE TARGETING ELLIPSE ALTOGETHER ALTOGETHER ALTOGETHER!

Given the way the map is/was originally labeled, J .65 / 7.52 should actually correspond with 00 41' 15" north and 23 29 51" E. So this is nothing less than a sensational find. NASA makes/made the claim that LAM 2 Map/ "J Map" coordinates J .65 and 7.52 corresponded with Tranquility Base so as to FORCE THE COORDINATES TO FALL WITHIN THE PLANNED LANDING ELLIPSE. This way, it would appear the "photographic evidence" for a landing at Tranquility Base, is photographic evidence of a landing at not longitude 23 26' 00" east, but rather 23 29' 51 east. So in order to make things "fit" NASA, the "INNUMERATI" and Map scam artists, simply called J .65 /7.52 Tranquility Base, and said it was at this position, because if they had told us the "truth" about the numbers anyway, we would have discovered 00 41'15" north and 23 26' 00 east, TO THE WEST OF THE PLANNED LANDING ELLIPSE CONFIRMING THE FRAUDULENCE OF THE APOLLO 11 MISSION.

Well!!!, better late than never, the thing is 100% fake and we just proved it!!!
Click to expand...

So why does the LM have the same relationship to the same craters, regardless of what numbers you apply to get there? Funny...how the 16mm descent film, pictures taken from the C/SM of the descending LM, surface Hasselblads taken by the astronauts themselves, and Kaguya/LRO images ALL MATCH IN TERRAIN DETAILS.

Your math errors do not count for much against this simple consistency.
 
nomuse said:
So why does the LM have the same relationship to the same craters, regardless of what numbers you apply to get there? Funny...how the 16mm descent film, pictures taken from the C/SM of the descending LM, surface Hasselblads taken by the astronauts themselves, and Kaguya/LRO images ALL MATCH IN TERRAIN DETAILS.

Your math errors do not count for much against this simple consistency.
Click to expand...

You have to remember..Pattyfraud doesn't do pictures and rocks, not even the rocks upstairs, so the devastatingly real evidence doesn't mean anything to him.
 
Patrick1000 said:
Easier? I wonder why?
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You've obviously never undergone any simulator training. They put you through all types of scenarios and failures, often multiple or one after the other. We call it beasting.

Real life, where everything goes well for most of the time, becomes tame in comparison.
 
Although I recall at least one astronaut complaining when real life threw up something the otherwise exhaustive and thorough simulation team hadn't done in training.
 
Sorry nomuse, I am on to something big here

nomuse said:
So why does the LM have the same relationship to the same craters, regardless of what numbers you apply to get there? Funny...how the 16mm descent film, pictures taken from the C/SM of the descending LM, surface Hasselblads taken by the astronauts themselves, and Kaguya/LRO images ALL MATCH IN TERRAIN DETAILS.

Your math errors do not count for much against this simple consistency.
Click to expand...

Check the thing for yourself nomuse, my point is not refutable. If 23 30' 00" is at map longitude 7.6, then Tranquility Base cannot possibly be at J .65 and 7.52. Let's keep it simple and leave it at that for now. The map is fake, has to be, matter of fact is, just proved it.
 
Patrick1000 said:
Check the thing for yourself nomuse, my point is not refutable.
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What a pompous ass you are.

Let's keep it simple and leave it at that for now.
Click to expand...

Yes...I am beginning to believe that you are simple minded.

The map is fake, has to be, matter of fact is, just proved it.
Click to expand...

Horse hockey pucks. You've only "proved" how ignorant you continue to be.

When will you wake up and realize how much you have embarrassed yourself??
 
I have a difficult time reading P1K's posts. I thought my reading comprehension for long text was failing me until Jay showed up. Then I realized Pat's posts are the problem, not my reading.

Pat: Read JayUtah's post and pay attention. That is how you organize information. Have a clear thesis statement, properly formatted paragraphs consisting of complete sentences, minimize the use of jargon, slang and snark, and put numerical information in a clear format so others can follow your train of thought. Summarize your conclusion at the end.

Like many others here, I believe you to be one or more high school kids. You gusys might actually learn some valuable writing skills if you bother. Internet debating does serve that purpose, at least.
 
That is one fake fake fake map!!!!!

MORE, FAKE MAP STUFF THAT GOES BEYOND THE ORDINARILY PHONY.


Again, the incredibly fake map;

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/LAM2_CMP-flown.jpg

Consider this, there are 15.2 latitude units running from 00 30' 00" north at D .5, up to 01 00' 00" north at U .7. So by that accounting, 1.97 minutes of arc per small square edge.

Now, assume the map to have coordinates as labeled. Not too much to ask of a map, wouldn't you say? Let's find "Tranquility Base", latitude and longitude wise. Tranquility Base is at 00 41' 15" north. That is 11.25 minutes of arc north of 00 30' 00" at D .5. 11.25/1.97 gives 5.7 latitude lines north of D .5, and this places me on K .2 . I've already done the calculation for the "Tranquility Base" longitude, assuming the map to be "true", that is, assuming we will read the map as labeled. 23 26' 00" in such a case (and what other case should we assume here?, it's only a map) is at 5.549.

So on their LAM 2 Map, my "J MAP", NASA's very own map, the one they labeled themselves, Tranquility Base at 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east would be found not at J .65 / 7.52, but rather at K .2 / 5.549 . So it turns out if one treats both latitude and longitude true to their labeling, "Tranquility Base", assuming it is at 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east would be found at the south west tip of the surfboard shaped LAM 2/ "J Map" landing ellipse.

By this true map rendering, J .65 / 7.52 is actually at coordinates, 00 40' 15" north and 23 29 51 east. This is 1.3 miles from "Tranquility Base" at K .2 / 5.549.

I'll keep going. There is a longish line on the "J Map" beginning at H / 2 and running to a small circle, point of interest, at L .8 / 6.6. In radians on this map that translates to, 00 44' 43" north and 23 28' 03" east. There is also a dot/circle, point of interest, at M .8 / 7.9. In "Jay Map" equivalent radian notation it would be about, 00 46' 40" and 23 30' 35".

What about the targeted landing site of 00 43' 53" north and 23 38' 51" east? This would correspond to roughly L .5 / 12.14. That is pretty much in the middle of the ellipse, just to the north of its center line.

So one can begin to make some sense of this. The point/circle on the map at L .8 / 6.6 is 3.4 miles down range from the targeted site. That's the first place Collins supposedly looked for the Eagle, there at roughly L .8 / 6.6 .


This is beyond fascinating. One of our very best finds gang! If we read the map as labeled, "Tranquility Base" at 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east falls on a point roughly at K .2 / 5.549 . The point on the map that NASA tells us corresponds to Tranquility Base at J .65 / 7.52, is a point corresponding to radian coordinates 00 40' 15" and 23 29' 51". The points on the "J Map" at L .8 /6.6 and M .8 / 7.9 correspond to the 1st and 3rd places Collins allegedly looked for the Eagle during his lunar orbital wild goose chase.

We now have absolute, iron clad, no squirming out of it now PROOF!, of map manipulating FRAUD!. 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east most decidedly does not fall on the corresponding "J Map" point J .65 / 7.52 . It falls at K .2 / 5.549 . We have caught the dreaded "INNUMERATI" dead to rights with their Apollo 11 Astronaut Certified Depends down. No getting out of this one boys. The thing is proven FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE!!!

Now, why do it this way? Well, I suspect we shall find, though I am not certain of it yet, that "Little West Crater" and all of those other bogus landmarks are located at roughly J .65 / 7.52 or equivalently 00 40' 15" north and 23 29 51" east. LOCATED AT THESE POSITIONS AS LABELED ON THIS MAP. It may well indeed be the case, and I assume it is for now, that "Little West Crater" is at roughly 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east on the real moon, in real moon coordinates, as seen when studying an accurate map. The GRID overlaying the LAM 2 Map with which the "INNUMERATI" worked may well have been shifted to the northwest so that the 00 41' 15" north 23 26' 00" east point was made on this shifted grid to overlay K .2 / 5.549 instead of J .65 / 7.52 as it rightly should.

With this method, one has a map with coordinates all askew , allowing one to play fast and loose with numbers. Little West Crater may really be right there at roughly 00 41' 15" and 23 26' 00" east, but on the night of the landing, that position, that point, those coordinates, remain ambiguous because the overlying grid has been shifted. It is not until just before lift off that Tranquility Base is announced to be at more or less J .5 / 7.7, at which point it's all over. Remove the phony "shifted grid" and voila! See, it was there all along!

We've caught 'em boys and girls, caught em' red handed with a phony map! Hooray! score one for truth justice and accuracy in cartography. No wiggle room for Neil here my friends.
 
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Just a simple map, nothing fancy, check my numbers.

abaddon said:
Would those be coordinates in the "Julian system" given in RA and Dec, or what?
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Just a simple map, nothing fancy, check my numbers.

Let me know where you live abaddon, maybe I can help you out with a referral. After you work through this, you'll be in need of medical attention, maybe even a stay in the ICU.

By the way, how ARE you feeling now buddy? Have you checked my numbers yet?!?!?!?!?

Tachycardic? Tachypneic? Diaphoretic? Vertinginous?

I'd like to say don't sweat the small stuff, but that would be a lie here. It's not so small now is it buddy?
 
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Check my post just above

Giordano said:
Has any one here yet referred to this great computer-matched set of photos between the Apollo 11 descent pictures and Google Moon?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G9Nh5qWzqMY#!
I first found it on Bad Astronomy.

Patrick- please don't take this video as an attempt to prove your theories wrong- I strongly suspect you don't believe what you post here and are only looking for an argument. If so, here's a link for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
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Check my post just above
 
Just check the numbers for yourself, it is very simple.

Giordano said:
They are imaginary numbers plotted in the too complex for Patrick plane.
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Just check the numbers for yourself, it is very simple, and obviously more then simply frightening. The map is fake. Tell me how it is not. Show me one significant error in my demonstration.
 
Oh yes, and one last incredibly important point!

Keep in mind these clowns claim to be able to actually find people, things, spaceships by way of their cartographic analysis. As such, the maps must be labeled very very very accurately. Off by a half mile is as good as off by a million miles. This map grid is skewed as best I can tell, at least 1.3 miles to the northeast, or equivalently, the "moon has been moved" to the southeast from under its overlying coordinate grid.
 
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abaddon said:
Would those be coordinates in the "Julian system" given in RA and Dec, or what?
Click to expand...


I like how he keeps referring to the map as the "J Map" as if that's what he meant by "Julian" all along.

Yo, Dr. Socks, "radian" refers to a unit of angle, like degrees or steradians. One radian subtends 180/π degrees. Degrees-minutes-seconds format is called "Degrees-minutes-seconds", abbreviated "DMS" (just like on your calculator). Degrees and decimal degrees format is called "decimal degrees", abbreviated "DD".
 
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