Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[codyjuneau]

Regarding the incorrect Postal Police arrival time recorded by Battistelli.

This is a skeptic's forum so here is a possibility to consider.

When the Postal Police arrived Raffaele told them he and Amanda had phoned and were waiting for the Caribinieri police. Is it possible Battistelli decided to pretend the Postal Police arrived earlier than they actually did in order to scoop the case for the Postal Police. Battistelli might have thought the Caribinieri police would be able to claim the case was theirs if they could show Raffaele had contacted them first by telephone.

Perhaps Battistelli did this without realizing it implied Raffaele was guilty of the murder.

 

[LondonJohn]

That pay scale is nothing to Big Pharma....




Rolfe.

Damn. I'm clearly in the wrong position as a paid-up spreader of online misinformation. I need to be headhunted. I wonder who handles recruitment into Bashar al-Assad's paid-blogger crew?

 

[Kaosium]

Battistelli is simply a liar that says what he thinks the prosecution wants to hear. The 12:35 arrival time is what he testified to in court saying that he looked at his watch (reminiscence of toto). But has there been a contemporaneous report filed with that time written down or is he claiming to have remembered the time from 2 years earlier. It just so happens that 12:35 matches when the CCTV showed him arriving if you get the time adjustment wrong as we now know the prosecution did. Are we to believe it is just a coincidence that Battistelli's watch is off by exactly the same amount as the prosecution got the CCTV time wrong?

I recall coming across something that said his contemporaneous account was off, but not perfect like that, it was considered more of a rounded figure. I have no idea where I'd find it now.

Or, wait a minute, it might have had to do with the time they left the police station instead, there was a record of that, wasn't there? I think that might have been what was misleading.

 

[Dan O.]

Holy Moly: Fulcanelli (aka .net's Michael) is even more ignorant/uninformed of the basic science involved in this case than I thought. It doesn't stop him making crass and bombastic "arguments" about the photo of the small bathroom though.

Here are the facts:

The Kastle-Meyer test was performed no later that November 6 and possibly as early as November 4. If the hypothesis that the test was performed using an industrial sprayer to test the whole room in less than 10 seconds were true then there would be additional areas that subsequently turned pink after the bloody bathroom photo was taken and these would show up in the crime scene video part 2 of December 18 that was shot while the mop was being paraded through Meredith's room.

If on the other hand, the investigators weren't totally clueless, there should exist documentary evidence in the form of individual pictures and notes for what the tests revealed in each of the areas tested. Where are those photos and notes?

 

[Dan O.]

I recall coming across something that said his contemporaneous account was off, but not perfect like that, it was considered more of a rounded figure. I have no idea where I'd find it now.

Or, wait a minute, it might have had to do with the time they left the police station instead, there was a record of that, wasn't there? I think that might have been what was misleading.

It is a rounded time and I have one note that says 12:35 with no source and Massei [14] says a little after 12:30 pm...

As stated by Battistelli (page 80, hearing of February 6, 2009) they had some
difficulty finding the house, as they had gone along Viale S. Antonio, which is
alongside and in part hides the house. Twice, Battistelli had had to get out of the car
and walk along before finding the house, where he arrived with Assistant Marzi at a
little after 12:30 pm, or so it seemed to the two policemen.​

ETA: Here, Micheli is the source for 12:35...

Finally, did not merit even the series of arguments to refute the thesis of S. Call
"112" only after the arrival of the Postal Police. Apart from the content of the calls
in question, where the S. says it was not stolen anything, but there was a closed
door with the occupant sought but did not answer, before which there were spots
of blood (in theory, he could trust what he was saying the K. on the apparent
condition of the premises, to hypothesize that nothing was missing), it is
undisputed that he called his sister - Official Carabinieri - at 12:50, so the "112" at
12:51 and 12:54. The annotation of the Postal Police, signed by your ISP.
Battistelli, indicating the arrival of the crew to 12:35, and according to the
cameras of the parking letters, bearing a time to be rounded, perhaps even before
the agents arrived.​

 

[Kaosium]

Hold on: Marriott gave me a 12-year-old Skoda Fabia with 132,000 miles on the clock and a large cigarette burn on the front passenger seat. He told me I was one of his top-performing operatives, but that the global economic downturn had led to - in his words - "a re-scaling of remuneration and bonus structures". But now I think he might have been sweet-talking me...

Bah! Count your blessings, bourgeoisie! All I get are stubs that tell me how much more I owe the Supertanker of Doom for online access and diet Mountain Dew! That and unsubtle intimations of what can be accomplished with duct tape and a rusty hacksaw!

 

[Kaosium]

It is a rounded time and I have one note that says 12:35 with no source and Massei [14] says a little after 12:30 pm...

As stated by Battistelli (page 80, hearing of February 6, 2009) they had some
difficulty finding the house, as they had gone along Viale S. Antonio, which is
alongside and in part hides the house. Twice, Battistelli had had to get out of the car
and walk along before finding the house, where he arrived with Assistant Marzi at a
little after 12:30 pm, or so it seemed to the two policemen.​

ETA: Here, Micheli is the source for 12:35...

Finally, did not merit even the series of arguments to refute the thesis of S. Call
"112" only after the arrival of the Postal Police. Apart from the content of the calls
in question, where the S. says it was not stolen anything, but there was a closed
door with the occupant sought but did not answer, before which there were spots
of blood (in theory, he could trust what he was saying the K. on the apparent
condition of the premises, to hypothesize that nothing was missing), it is
undisputed that he called his sister - Official Carabinieri - at 12:50, so the "112" at
12:51 and 12:54. The annotation of the Postal Police, signed by your ISP.
Battistelli, indicating the arrival of the crew to 12:35, and according to the
cameras of the parking letters, bearing a time to be rounded, perhaps even before
the agents arrived.​

So in other words they pretty much decided the camera had to be right and made that his 'memory.' Or at least that's what it looks like, and makes sense actually. I don't know what I'm thinking I read about something written down at the time, I can't find it in Massei either. Perhaps it was someone speculating in the archives somewhere that the 12:30 time was from a written record.

 

[Kaosium]

9) We can only guess as to what made the police want to take a photo of the bathroom in this state. And we can only guess what motivated them (or prosecutors) to release this photo to the media. The most charitable explanations for both actions are related to incompetence and miscommunication; the least charitable explanations are related to malpractice, deception and misdirection.

My guess is Monica Napoleoni (or whoever) wanted to see the wicked little hip-wiggler BURN!

The only arguments that amount to anything regarding this, is 'are you saying they did it on purpose? You think they framed them?'

I'd answer 'No, it's called 'strategy' in an environment where the juries aren't sequestered and there's legal sanctions in place to prevent criticism of police. Why wouldn't they? It makes their conquest seem that much mightier, they took two real sickos off the streets, instead of two confused college kids, which in essence is the worst Raffaele and Amanda ever were regarding this case. They deserve applause! They get it! So they keep doing it. Anything they can find, it doesn't even matter if it's accurate, as who wants to stand up for these cretins?

So you have a number of factors working for it, and nothing working against it. It's not a 'conspiracy' or a 'frame' it's strategy and playing to the crowd.

 

[Dan O.]

I thought the bathroom photo issue was settled long ago. Is there actually any sane person disagreeing with us?


A reference I left out earlier:

Domenico Profazio Hyacinth, then leader of the Flying Squad in Perugia, after hearing of 27.2.2009 (Massei page 94)

"I did not enter the small bathroom at via della Pergola at all on November 4, and I only saw it on the 6th when it was totally pink because an appropriate substance had been used to enhance the forensic traces".​

And a little bit for which I cannot reveal the confidential source: There exists an almost identical photo to the one that was released to the press on Jan 16, 2008 but this photo had been taken on Dec 18, 2007 at 4:07 pm (which if my calculations are correct is a little over the 30 second limit after the Kastle-Meyer^WP test was performed).

Does anyone have access to the original photo that was released to the press?

 

[Fine]

London John, there is no need to assume that Sollecito was confused or even that he made a statement at all. Lying to one suspect about what another suspect is saying is an old police trick. And as we have seen the Perugia police don't consider it wrong to lie to suspects. They also don't seem to mind spreading lies in the press.

__________________________


Kestrel,

Raffaele said this to Judge Claudia Matteini a couple days after his arrest:


"Ho detto che Amanda era uscita perché ero sotto stress, in realtà è sempre stata con me."

Translation: "I've said that Amanda was out because I was under stress, in fact she was always with me."


La Repubblica

///

 

[Grinder]

But, but the machine, she says that Raffaele never substantiated her alibi. All the PGP say he never backed her story - how could this be

__________________________


Kestrel,

Raffaele said this to Judge Claudia Matteini a couple days after his arrest:


"Ho detto che Amanda era uscita perché ero sotto stress, in realtà è sempre stata con me"

Translation: "I've said that Amanda was out because I was under stress, in fact she was always with me."


La Repubblica

///

 

[Poppy1016]

The rantings of the PG group are really sounding desperate. They can't possibly believe their insane arguments. I still say most are just amatuer debators that are trying to hone their debating skills.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Mr Fisher just said Marriott's services are voluntary... without looking for anything in return.
Mr Wilkes/Lovering now says Amanda's Family hired Marriott

Do we need a few pages of mind readers to tell us what each of these distinguished gentlemen meant to say ? ? ?

Do we need a communications engineer to give us a full page dissertation on how people everywhere are always hired without looking for anything in return[i/]
This complete with a few Google de gooked URLs ? ? ?

Or were they just having 'false memories' or other psycho babble buzz word excuses ? ? ?

Per chance, since they did not check the PR talking point media briefing sheet, the blatant contradiction is just the 'best truth they can think of' ? ? ?

Or could some idiot (full fledged please) from another Forum maybe just conclude someone now might be 'misstating' something.
Or maybe again arguing something very dogmatically of which one of the arguers has little or no factual knowledge ? ? ?

You could save your fingers a lot of unneeded arthritis pain by just asking the question.

Marriott was hired by Amanda's family early on. Your group believes that he was given a suitcase filled with something in the range of one million dollars at that time. This is not true by the way but I know you prefer to trust your sources. I have been told that Marriott's efforts at this time are voluntary. It has been almost 4 years and things change. Marriott, like many others can see clearly that Amanda Knox is innocent.

None of this matters. You will realize one day that you were fed lies about the alleged million dollar PR firm from two websites that you adore.

I am told that you are pleasant to speak to in private. I offered to speak to you but you declined. I am amazed that people like yourself can spread so much anger throughout the internet when in reality you are probably not a bad guy. I also get the impression that you served your country, something that I would have great respect for. All of these things leave me baffled as to what fuels the need to do what you do.

 

[JREF2010]

Sorry, but this is getting absolutely hilarious.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=1&t=402&start=4500#p98385

Rolfe.

I found this as an odd point to make for a guilt site...


There is a serious problem in the evidence against Knox and Sollecito, that is it is impossible to define their actual roles. -Yummi

 

[Mary_H]

It is clear from the Gogerty Marriott (only took the PG people three years to accept that Stark was gone ) site that they are doing some work on behave of Knox.

Has there ever been any proof that GM is controlling the media in the US or anywhere else?<snip>

Amanda's parents went on the Oprah Winfrey Show in February, 2010. Oprah did not come right out and say she supported Amanda. A short fifteen months later, The Oprah Winfrey Show ended. Coincidence?

 

[Grinder]

Amanda's parents went on the Oprah Winfrey Show in February, 2010. Oprah did not come right out and say she supported Amanda. A short fifteen months later, The Oprah Winfrey Show ended. Coincidence?

No it's no coincidence. My sources tell me that a group or two organized a public letter condemning Oprah for not calling Amanda a sex murderer and after receiving it, Oprah saw the light and quit. I understand that SB is hoping to be her replacement

Blog. One baby step at a time.

 

[Mary_H]

STOKED!

I've been talking about the blue jacket that was physically removed from Meredith Kercher during the struggle for months. The Dumb and Dumb Trash a Crime Scene Team didn't collect it as evidence but threw it in the laundry hamper in her room. On Dec 18 one took it out of hamper and threw it on the floor before it was finally collected as evidence. Rudy Guede's DNA was found on the cuff.

Now Oggi is doing an article on it.

http://www.oggi.it/focus/cronaca/20...veva-perso-la-felpa-insanguinata-di-meredith/

http://www.ilmessaggero.it/articolo.php?id=162893&sez=HOME_INITALIA

Maybe they will do an article on the untested Semen stain next!

Is Oggi following JREF and IIP ?

Nice work, Draca! Where would this case be without the truths that have been uncovered, deduced and realized in the online forums?

 

[Draca]

Mr Fisher just said Marriott's services are voluntary... without looking for anything in return.
Mr Wilkes/Lovering now says Amanda's Family hired Marriott

Per chance, since they did not check the PR talking point media briefing sheet, the blatant contradiction is just the 'best truth they can think of' ? ? ?

Ya, that does sound funny that they said two different things. I don't really know what the truth is on this. Is he paid, or was he paid at one time and not now. It doesn't really matter in the end. I always want to ask Mr. Marriott if he is even aware of the online conspiracy theory of how he is controlling the world press on Amanda Knox. I kind of get a kick out of the idea that he is totally oblivious to being called 'The Knox PR Supertanker'.

 

[Draca]

Where would this case be without the truths that have been uncovered, deduced and realized in the online forums?

This was my first real foray into online forums. I believe halides1 mentioned that in the Duke Lacrosse Case the online forums had figured things out and were way ahead of the media. I think that has also happened here to a great degree. The media hasn't even picked up on the stomach content issue that has become a game changer on this forum. The press is just now picking up how badly the forensic investigation was conducted, which has been discussed here quite in depth for a long time. Halides1 was way ahead of things with the withheld FSA files. It might be good to make a list. As an innocentisti poster I would like to hope our discussions have influenced things in some way. I'm sure you feel the same Mary_H. Certainly all your comments on articles were damaging to the colpevolisti theories.

Btw, where is Chris C. ? I think he first bought up the stomach content issue but didn't have it all thought out completely.

 

[Kaosium]

It is a rounded time and I have one note that says 12:35 with no source and Massei [14] says a little after 12:30 pm...

As stated by Battistelli (page 80, hearing of February 6, 2009) they had some
difficulty finding the house, as they had gone along Viale S. Antonio, which is
alongside and in part hides the house. Twice, Battistelli had had to get out of the car
and walk along before finding the house, where he arrived with Assistant Marzi at a
little after 12:30 pm, or so it seemed to the two policemen.​

ETA: Here, Micheli is the source for 12:35...

Finally, did not merit even the series of arguments to refute the thesis of S. Call
"112" only after the arrival of the Postal Police. Apart from the content of the calls
in question, where the S. says it was not stolen anything, but there was a closed
door with the occupant sought but did not answer, before which there were spots
of blood (in theory, he could trust what he was saying the K. on the apparent
condition of the premises, to hypothesize that nothing was missing), it is
undisputed that he called his sister - Official Carabinieri - at 12:50, so the "112" at
12:51 and 12:54. The annotation of the Postal Police, signed by your ISP.
Battistelli, indicating the arrival of the crew to 12:35, and according to the
cameras of the parking letters, bearing a time to be rounded, perhaps even before
the agents arrived.​

Not, quite.

They had it for the Matteini Report.

On the 2nd November 2007, at 12.35, personnel of the Polizia Postale of Perugia presented themselves in via della Pergola, number 7,

Now here is where it gets somewhat complicated, either way though, I think it suggests they had access to that CCTV video. The Polizia Postale, weren't exactly in a hurry when they got there, they were just returning Meredith's phones, they didn't know about the murder. Thus there's about twelve minutes that pass between the arrival of their car in the parking garage, until they're seen crossing the street to the driveway of the cottage.