The Freeman Movement and England

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drewid said:
OooOoo. I can do that.

"Ha, he didn't do it exactly right, I advised him to say different words, but the email got scrambled and he said it wrong." - Luv Rob
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I believe that excuse appeared on the other thread as well. My, the powers of prediction are strong in colleagues here!

:D
 
I am slowly trying to work my way through this thread, as and when I can, and also looking to see what else I can find on the web.
However a couple of my friends are really getting in to this. I am just trying to find as much info as I can to give them counter arguments. Really this seems like such crap to me and I can just imagine my friends getting themselves into some stupid trouble if they start trying to apply some of this nonsense.

Anyway I would really appreciate a few pointers that I can suggest that my friends look at before they do something stupid.
I have tried showing them a video of one guy in the states who apparently got into trouble over a couch somehow. Tried to pull a few of the magic words and ended up serving, I believe, 93 days in jail for his troubles. Sadly they see it as a victory????

Maybe I just need to find new friends :-D

Edit: Should also say I am also in the UK and the vast majority of stuff on the net about this is US based and I am sure that the laws are slightly different.

Many thanks
JB
 
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However a couple of my friends are really getting in to this. I am just trying to find as much info as I can to give them counter arguments. Really this seems like such crap to me and I can just imagine my friends getting themselves into some stupid trouble if they start trying to apply some of this nonsense.
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Are they unemployed potheads?
If so, if it goes past 2 weeks and they still believe it, get shut of them.
It means they dont have the sense to see its nonsense.
 
Sadly they are both full time employed, working in the same place as me. One of them was really rational before but had a housemate for a short who has brainwashed the poor guy with conspiracy nonsense. The other is a hippy but the funny thing is they both now talk about not being zombies and sheeple. Hmm half of me wants to leave 'em to it and not offer any alternative. Free to follow what they choose I guess. See how it goes for them. Nice guys though and would hate to see them get into big trouble. The hippy has just had a new baby as well.

Like you suggest I will see ho the next couple of weeks go.
 
They will probably come around mate, if they dont tell them that any self respecting freeman wouldnt be paying taxes and to go and have a word with the boss about it.
Companies are always looking for ways of getting rid of "dead wood" and you never know they may be replaced by some people you can relate to.

Good luck mate
 
Haha now there's a direction I hadn't thought of coming from. Gotta try that, I'll try and get a picture of their faces when I suggest it and they try to think of reasons not to lol :D
 
If you tell a Constable in Uniform that you are a Freeman and decline his 'Offere of Conversatione' he is obligated to offer you a set of Maundy money and a carry to 'Wherever you so chooes that be withine the Curtilage of the Lord of the Land.'

They never repealed the 1321 Right to transport in silence Act
 
Jaynbob42 said:
Haha now there's a direction I hadn't thought of coming from. Gotta try that, I'll try and get a picture of their faces when I suggest it and they try to think of reasons not to lol :D
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You could also try some extreme scenarios like the Somali warlord or feudal baron and imagine telling them that you "Do not consent" to their tax ideas. :D

Or try to get them to consider how a society would keep functioning if anyone could opt out of following the law.

Have they through of of why the police is called Law enforcement and how that relates to the consent thing?
 
Toke said:
Have they through of of why the police is called Law enforcement and how that relates to the consent thing?
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This sounds like a good argument, but will fall on deaf ears of an FOTLer. I have seen several of them make posts arguing that they are Peace Officers, not Law Enforcement Officers.
 
Jaynbob42 said:
The hippy has just had a new baby as well.

Like you suggest I will see ho the next couple of weeks go.
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Tell the Hippie to do some science. He'll be the non-Fotl control group, and let the other guy try it all out. Once the other guy is in trouble, hopefully the Hippie will realize what the results of the experiment mean, and conclude that Fotl is crap.

That way, you at least save one of them, and the baby.
 
cwalner said:
This sounds like a good argument, but will fall on deaf ears of an FOTLer. I have seen several of them make posts arguing that they are Peace Officers, not Law Enforcement Officers.
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That is a point, Rob Menard have just been claiming it again on another tread. :eye-poppi
Still if the guys are not too far gone it might give them pause.
 
Heres an e-mail I received from Admin at Freedom Rebels website (Ray St Claire's site)
Admin has replied to the message "slander" on Freedom Rebels

Payless ... We do NOT have the time to point out the facts to you anymore.

Clearly you are not willing to accept what we are telling you.

You basically cause a lot of disruption with just about everybody you talk to on here. You clearly do NOT accept or agree with what we are trying to expose.

There are LAWS that uphold mankind's FREEDOM and LAWS that oppress and turn mankind into SLAVES of their system.

You do NOT get this reality and constantly seek to undermine it.

We have given YOU a lot of slack to respond in ways that contribute to a positive move forward in gaining better understanding and dealing with what we Know to be the truth and that is systems of control being passed into so called LAW to bring down any kind of protest against injustice and seeking to crush and stamp down people's freedom of speech etc.

There is so much more we could cover to point out the facts, of which we do NOT have time.

So in view of everything so far we have decided to terminate your account.

We want FREEDOM for all and not just the minority.

Admin
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Freedom for all, except me :D
 
 
Interesting. Thanks! I've never been able to get anything out of BaiLII.

More on this guy:
Bradford court contempt man, 85, legally jailed
Norman Scarth freed as Bradford contempt sentence cut

From that last article:
Lord Justice Pitchford said Scarth suffered from a delusional disorder, could be loud and argumentative, and was a conspiracy theorist.

He said it was perfectly clear that the continued incarceration of Scarth, who has always refused medication, was having a "deleterious effect" on his mental health.

"He is an unusual individual in that the nature of his personality disorder means that he is not one of those who is likely to see the error of his ways and, to use technical language, purge his contempt."

So they just let him go? If you search his name on Google and YouTube, there's plenty of blogs and videos, so he seems to be one of the gurus. The article mentions that he had been "assisting" a litigant. They don't see problems with that? Shouldn't they be doing some sort of follow-up on the guy?
 
D'rok said:
Uh-oh. There's a conundrum here. The Claimant is referred to by his freeman name, but...IT'S IN ALL CAPS!



What does this mean? Is this his strawman? His fictional person? But it's the flesh and blood man! <head asplodes>
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I don't know.

Scarth is an interesting example of a FMOTL nutter in that he has gone himself a fistful of reported cases. One can enjoy the 'genius' of his pleadings and the judicial responses.

Needless to say Scarth is as mad as a bag of frogs & a nasty piece of work as well. He attacked a bailiff with a chainsaw :mad:
 
gtm said:
I don't know.
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I was joking. It means nothing. However, I'm sure that it will be seen as a victory by FOTL nutters. "See! They recognize our status!"

Needless to say Scarth is as mad as a bag of frogs & a nasty piece of work as well. He attacked a bailiff with a chainsaw :mad:
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Yikes.
 
victory is being claimed already on freedomrebels
BlackbirdXXV - One of the judges claims to have released Norman Scarth because it was not in the public interest to jail an 85 year old man who was of unsound mind, was unlikely to see the error of his ways and was a conspiracy theorist .. This is a classic propaganda technique called 'guilt by association' .. ie: conspiracy theorists are of unsound mind and unlikely to see the errors of their ways ...
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BlackbirdXXV - They also said that they were not critical of the original judgement .. but they quashed it anyway .. How more critical can you get than to quash a judgement that isn't in the public interest .. They mean: "not in the crown's interest 'cos people are taking notice !"
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jonnyboy GREAT NEWS GUYS just seen this on facebook, posted half hour ago. IT GIVES ME GREAT PLEASURE TO ANNOUNCE THAT NORMAN SCARTHS SENTENCE HAS BEEN QUASHED AT THE APPEAL HEARING AT THE ROYAL COURTS IN LONDON TODAY!! WE ARE AT LEEDS PRISON NOW AWAITING THE ARRIVAL OF NORMAN SCARTH AND A VIDEO OF FREE NORMAN SCARTH WILL BE FOLLOWING SOON! THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO PLAYED A PART IN THIS!
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heres the link but it will only be valid for a while as its a blog page and the posts work their way off
http://www.freedomrebels.co.uk/
 
jargon buster said:
victory is being claimed already on freedomrebels




heres the link but it will only be valid for a while as its a blog page and the posts work their way off
http://www.freedomrebels.co.uk/
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Every time i see one of these i am reminded of a gent that used to come into our video store when i was a teenager.

Little guy, smaller than i am now ( saw him at a bar not long ago.), with the worlds biggest mouth.

We had a bar beside the video store, and as such got the tales of his exploits. He was fond of finding the biggest nastiest ******* in the bar, and **** talking him at length. 99.9% of the time this ended up with the big guy rolling his eyes and leaving due to the fact he was an obvious loudmouth, with little ability to harm anyone ( tiny, tiny gent, i mean i am a small guy, but he was just tiny. ). After the bigger guy removed himself, due to not wanting to pulpify him, and get in trouble with the cops ( it was otherwise a small pub, frequented by fairly nice folks.) , he would spend the rest of the night loudly proclaiming that the guy left due to fear.

Now just like the freemen, this only worked when people saw no benefit from harming him. Once in an attempt to provoke, what ended up being a semi pro fighter, he decided to place a hand ( in a sexual, not violent manner) on his girlfriend. Now that someone had a real reason to harm him, that would provide some kind of benefit, it was all down hill. The guy was beaten to the point where for the next month one could not recognize the man.

Freemanisim in a nutshell, if no one is going to be able to squeeze a penny out of you, and the charge is small, your probably going to get off, not because your a freeman, but because it just isn't worth the trouble. But when it comes to things that are, houses, large debts, criminal actions, you can be sure someone is going to knock you into next week, legally of course.
 
sadhatter said:
Freemanisim in a nutshell, if no one is going to be able to squeeze a penny out of you, and the charge is small, your probably going to get off, not because your a freeman, but because it just isn't worth the trouble. But when it comes to things that are, houses, large debts, criminal actions, you can be sure someone is going to knock you into next week, legally of course.
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Yes. In similar contexts to your story, I've occasionally advised people, "Don't mistake politeness for fear."

The Courts taking pity on a crazy old man should not be mistaken as giving licence to obnoxious young men to start pulling whatever **** they'd like to pull.
 
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