Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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What was Apollo? Well, Apollo most certainly was not an unmanned civilian NASA administered program to peacefully explore Mother Earth's closest luminary.

Patrick, perhaps you can clear up one simple question up that may help people believe you.

Earlier you said this:

I do not have "Google" where I am at.

If you are able to post so prolifically to this (and other) sites, how can you not have access to Google?
 
Apollo's Deep and True Nature

Deleted as repost of 2279. Please do not flood the forum with the same paragraphs over and over again, even with minor variations.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader
 
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Glasses are for reflected light of any type.

Laser light "reflected", refers to "reflected" from anywhere within the experimental system. As is obvious, the few photons bouncing back and caught are not what the scientists are most worried about when they are determining the nature of the risk to their eyes.

Scientific American, March 1970, Magazine's feature article, THE LUNAR LASER RETROREFLECTOR, pages 38-49. Authors; Professor James E. Faller, Weseylan University, Professor Joseph Wampler of the Lick Observatory.

from pages 45-46;

"The guidance system used blue-green moon light that passed through the beam splitter to provide a view needed to aim the telescope at the landing site....

When the laser was fired, somewhat less than one percent of the returned light passed through the beam slitter and entered the guidance system. This small sample of the outgoing light produced a momentary bright spot on the television monitor and showed accurately the point on the moon at which the telescope was aimed when the laser was fired. By holding the reticle images on the preselected craters and then monitoring the location of the flashes returned from the corner cubes mounted on the telescope it was possible to point the telescope with an error of less than a mile on the moon. The use of a television viewing system, which ensured that there was no danger from backscattered laser light to the eyes of the person correcting the motions of the telescope in order to hold the landing site in the field of the transmitted beam, also served to increase lunar contrast. During the daytime features were discernable on the television monitor that could not be seen by viewing the lunar image directly with the eye."
 
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So in honour of Patrick

I thought I'd do my own wall of text.


Take a shot debunking my argument there RAF at post #1178. Bogus telemetry proven and along with it Apollo 11...
Would you care to take a shot at debunking my argument at post #1178 Jack by the hedge? I made that claim, the telemetry is bogus...
Per my post #1178, which conclusively and incontrovertibly demonstrates Apollo 11 Mission Report tampering...
My analysis in #1178, along with similar, though less detailed previous posts, proves the Apollo 11 telemetry, the Apollo 11 Mission Report, and the Apollo 11 Mission itself as fraudulent...
Take a look at my post #1178 where I prove the telemetry that H. David Reed and the other fight officers were fed" was FAKE. Show me where my logic, my reasoning ,my facts break down... I would like to see your math.
OK nofriend, let's see you put your analytic and math skills where your mouth is. Let's see you debunk my claims at #1178. Analysis of the claims made on each side Reed vs the Mission Report by way of your own number curnching. Have at it hot shot. No arm waving please. Everyone is anxious to see what you have got. You may begin. You may take as much time as you like.
Also, it is clear none of you have even read 1178, let alone understand it...
To that you add the cross range, 17, which cannot be 17 degrees, so must be .17 degrees.

That's logic that is...

I am just going through this to show you that I am not blowing you off and want to debate you, but cannot now. Way too busy. check my numbers, you will find my memory to be good.

Best I can do. Until later, PAtrick

My post, Kiwi9s post

....tumbleweeds...
 
Laser light "reflected", refers to "reflected" from anywhere within the experimental system. As is obvious, the few photons bouncing back and caught are not what the scientists are most worried about when they are determining the nature of the risk to their eys.

Scientific American, March 1970, Magazine's feature article, THE LUNAR LASER RETROREFLECTOR, pages 38-49. Authors; Professor James E. Faller, Weseylan University, Professor Joseph Wampler of the Lick Observatory.

from pages 45-46;

"The guidance system used blue-green moon light that passed through the beam splitter to provide a view needed to aim the telescope at the landing site....

When the laser was fired, somewhat less than one percent of the returned light passed through the beam slitter and entered the guidance system. This small sample of the outgoing light produced a momentary bright spot on the television monitor and showed accurately the point on the moon at which the telescope was aimed when the laser was fired. By holding the reticle images on the preselected craters and then monitoring the location of the flashes returned from the corner cubes mounted on the telescope it was possible to point the telescope with an error of less than a mile on the moon. The use of a television viewing system, which ensured that there was no danger from backscattered laser light to the eyes of the person correcting the motions of the telescope in order to hold the landing site in the field of the transmitted beam, also served to increase lunar contrast. During the daytime features were discernable on the television monitor that could not be seen by viewing the lunar image directly with the eye."

Hi kid! Where are you now? Outer Mongolia? Bora Bora? On top of Mount Everest? Posting here without the aid of the internet or Google? Avoiding questions,as usual. That is the only consistent thing about you.
 
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The March 1970 Scientific American features a nice article written by Professors Faller and Wampler of the LRRR Experimental team. As a matter of fact, the retroreflector is on the cover of the magazine. It is beautiful.

Can you see all its "active" systems: the batteries, moving parts, on/off switch, etc that you think it must have?
 
Patrick, perhaps you can clear up one simple question up that may help people believe you.

Earlier you said this:

If you are able to post so prolifically to this (and other) sites, how can you not have access to Google?

Maybe Google doesn't support RFC 1149
 
The photos are important, but...

There are no "but's", Apollo is a part of the historical record. NO evidence whatsoever that the landings were hoaxed.

Fact is, the more information gathered (such as these new LRO images) the more it confirms the reality of Apollo...

...and people like you, who can't form a coherent argument to save your life, become by definition irrelevant.


aside....looks like the mods are tiring of you repeating your "walls of text". How in the world will you continue with your argument if you can no longer spam the board??
 
<snip>...but I do predict, with a gut feeling probability of about 80%, that when he sees this post (he cannot resist looking), he'll come back with a "I didn't cave, I'm just weary of trying to educate all of you"-type post.<snip>

And I win my bet with myself! Thanks, Fattyda-, er, Patrick! I knew I could count on you. I'm treating myself to nice dinner on that!

Oh - you're still wrong.

Edit: On second thought, I'm only half right. I suspect that because his ego would never admit to the possibility of caving, he went right into yet another "reality" that would allow him to be "right". But it's still a good excuse for me to have a nice meal...
 
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I think I'll cheerfully ignore the opinions of others and continue using the English language in a correct, if confrontational, manner.



Don't worry, it was bound to happen sometime. He says enough. Even I've agreed with him once. I kept it to myself, though. ;)

By the law of averages young Patrick would get one thing right one day,
 
What was Apollo? Well, Apollo most certainly was not an unmanned civilian NASA administered program to peacefully explore Mother Earth's closest luminary. Apollo was an unmanned program.

So Apollo was not an unmanned program, but it was an unmanned program. Wait, what?

Under the pretense of a nonmilitary program of exploration and scientific investigation, Apollo sought to, and presumably succeeded in, instrumenting the moon with ranging and signaling equipment for both military and civilian purposes.

So the evidence for this is what?


Just as Surveyor VII successfully soft landed in January of 1968, so did other satellites soft land at various sites on the moon's surface including Tranquility Base. These satellites were equipped with devices such as LRRRs so that the moon could be ranged and gravity studied. With these studies, the Gaussian gravitational constant, and coefficients j and K could be determined. The latter two elements, j an K, important in determining with precision the 2nd and 4th harmonics of the Earth's potential. Very precise Guassian Gravitational constant, j and K determinations were essential in the determination of ICBM trajectories. The earth's speed of rotation and the subtle variabilities of that rotation could be accurately measured, with astonishing unprecidented precision. As ICBM targeting would invove Coriolis Effect considerations, such rotational speed measurements would have great relevance in the accurate targeting of missiles. As previously mentioned, the oceans could be ranged and distances across the face of the planet could be measured with unprecedented precision , again with the intent of using such measurements for military purposes such as in the targeting of ICBMs.

So the LRRR's were placed for the covert military purpose of precision targeting of ICBM's, if so, then what stopped the russians/chinese/koreans, or anyone else from using them in reverse? The Locations were identified within a week or so. Obviously, anyone could target the LRRR's with a laser and get just as good data, so your bizarre claim is that only the US could? Or that the russians could not use the LRRR in the same way because...why?

Undoubtedly,

Rhetorical tricks lend you no credibility.

when these unmanned satellites soft landed with their LRRRs , they were equipped as well with cameras and nonvisible laser light emitters. Such devices were/are used for determining the precise position of objects on the earth's surface, and perhaps even targeting objects with non visible laser light.

Oh boy, they had what now on board? Got any evidence for such equipment?

Apollo was an unmanned program that sought to and succeeded in instrumenting the moon with ranging equipment and equipment capable of precisely determining the position of objects upon the surface of the Earth and conceivably trageting objects as well.

Yet no evidence exists for such unmanned launches, and why exactly would the US engage in a program which would allow the russians to target US sites more accurately?

The moon is so far away, this military satellite can never be "taken out".

So those durn russkis gain exactly the same targeting advantage as the US.

Now we understand well LUNA 15's interest in the "location of Apollo 11".

It had none. It was not capable of resolving any landing site.

Also, the location of the placement of the various devices by "NASA" upon the lunar surface almost certainly would not coincide with the coordinates of the Apollo Mission "landing sites" as officially reported. In other words, there most certainly is an LRRR at 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. But there undoubtedly is "NASA equipment" at undisclosed locations upon the surface of the moon.

Got evidence for this NASA equipment? No.
Admitting that getting to the moon is feasible? Yes.

The Apollo Missions were "covers" to launch and land this ranging/locating/targeting equipment upon the moon.

Sure, just so the USSR, China etc could better target US cities, silos, etc

The equipment was launched, and no one knew, publicly anyway( privately, the Russians of course knew what we were up to), what was being done. Equipment for ranging/targeting/locating, not astronauts, was placed upon the moon. When the equipment compliment was complete,

But of course those honourable russians wouldn't even contemplate using those same LRRR's to improve their accuracy in targeting US sites.

Apollo was conveniently unfunded, and in 3 short years, the US had what it wanted; the means to more effectively target ICBMs, a way to precisely locate objects upon the surface of the earth, and a way to mark objects with non visible laser light for targeting.

And the russkis would not use the very same LRRR for the same purpose, cause that would be just nekulturny. You have no clue what corner cube reflectors do, have you?

The moon is so far away, if the equipment coordinates remain secret, the equipment can never be taken out, elliminated by a military hit from the other side.

Military strikes on the moon. Oh boy, this just gets better and better.

"The Apollo debate" at root is not about rocks and photos, it is about lasers, millitary satellites, including the moon as satellite, and ICBMs. The official story group could almost not care less about the rocks and photos, so what if they really are "fake", they do not care, as long as HB types write about that.

Sure, physical evidence doesn't count, but fantasy does.

But once the debate turs to the real deal, ICBMs, satellites, lasers, well that is a different story. Rocks and photos are a diversion. Who cares?! We on the HB side should now be turning our attention to these more important issues.

Well see, theres your problem. You HB suckers can't even agree amongst yourselves.

The photos are important, but not in the ways previously discussed.

Of course not, except when you want them to.
 
The Moon as a Military Satellite

Lasers are now used routinely in the measurement of wind speed and atmospheric density. These variables are among the most important in military rocketeers' arriving at the "correct" solutions for successful ICBM launches.

The LRRR placements and perhaps active laser placements upon Mother Earth's closest luminary almost certainly helped in making such determinations. Real-time targeting solutions for ICBMs were improved in this way.

ICBM launch parameters vary depending on wind strength and atmospheric density. Laser light measurements through the atmosphere would help in determining wind speeds and air densities.
 
The Apollo Program itself was the Lunar Laser Program

It is often asked, "if "Apollo" was fake, what really happened then?." As should be obvious, "Apollo happened". The whole project is real in the sense that this is the very equipment, and these are the very unknowing personal, that are being used/employed to land "satellites" and instrument the moon.

More likely than not, the LMs themselves are the satellites that land. When I say the "telemetry is fraudulent". I do not mean it has nothing to do with the "missions" in any sense. It is fraudulent in the sense that close examination of all the Apollo 11 telemetry data proves the mission did not happened as advertised. Examination of the telemetry data shows Apollo 11 was unmanned and fraudulent. Fraudulent in the sense that the "mission" had an altogether different intention than that as presented by NASA in its conventional telling of the first moon landing narrative.

More likely than not, people in Houston, people in Mission Control, landed the very military/civilian satellites I am writing about here, and most of the people in Houston, the flight specialists included, like H. David Reed, they assumed this to be a real manned mission.This is why Apollo 11 as a "manned space mission" is such a great cover for this.

To land a satellite equipped as I have suggested would require a very large rocket. Presumably this is a satellite much bigger than Surveyor, and may well be the "Eagle" itself, a LM with modifications of course. You couldn't launch a package this big for the moon without a giant booster. If you said it was unmanned, people would get suspicious, "Why are the Americans launching so many giant satellites and landing them on the moon?" Well, not every body would get "suspicious". Russian intelligence knew what we were doing, but they were attempting to, and presumably did, the very same thing with their landings.

This is why the Russians never say anything. They are doing it too. The scam is for the general public, the world at large. Intelligence people in all of the great nations know all about this, must be the case.
 
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Lasers are now used routinely in the measurement of wind speed and atmospheric density. These variables are among the most important in military rocketeers' arriving at the "correct" solutions for successful ICBM launches.

The LRRR placements and perhaps active laser placements upon Mother Earth's closest luminary almost certainly helped in making such determinations. Real-time targeting solutions for ICBMs were improved in this way.

ICBM launch parameters vary depending on wind strength and atmospheric density. Laser light measurements through the atmosphere would help in determining wind speeds and air densities.

Are you some kind of bot that justs keeps on posting the same nonsense? What about answering some questions,kid?
 
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