Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

Status
Not open for further replies.
Captain_Swoop said:
As has already been pointed out 'Earth Phases' Just like we see the Moon in different Phases.

How did this 'software mole' pull off the sabotage without any of the development team, Bata Testars or the thousands of users of the software even noticing anything wrong?
Click to expand...

A dose of reality would do Patrick the world of good. This thread is very entertaining.
 
The Mystery of Starry Night's Dark Earth

excaza said:
Guess what's sitting there, in nice clear text, on the main page of their web site?

"Ask a question"

We're getting to some mind-blowing stuff here!
Click to expand...

So Starry Night says of their pro 6 software;

"Starry Night Pro is a powerful program designed for those with a serious interest in astronomy. Increase your in-the-field observing success with features such as the Events Finder to choose targets, or customized Observing Lists for a specific night or object of interest. Print out three-view star hopping charts customized to your equipment to effortlessly guide you to challenging objects. With extensive data sets, advanced telescope control, and comprehensive observational tools you'll soon transform your computer into a sophisticated virtual observatory."

Certainly, the software is not perfect. I am not a professional astronomer, though some who are use this as a tool and like it. I use it to study the night sky.

What is important are Starry Night's numbers. At the time of Armstrong's exit from the LM, the apparent magnitude of Sirius , the brightest star in the sky was -1.47, so to your favor I will call that -2.0 to make the calculation easier. I will make Sirius more bright, to your advantage. The Earth is apparent magnitude -16.28 and I will again adjust to your advantage to make my calculation easier and use -16.0 for the earth magnitude.

Now, I challenge you to find a data base, academic or commercial, that is at variance from these numbers by any meaningful degree. Look at the numbers used by academics on THAT VERY DAY and you will find Sirius to be about -1.47 and the earth from the moon -16.28. Starry night may not be perfect, but these numbers here are quite accurate, produce others if you can. I would welcome your challenge in this regard.

-2.0 to -16.0 is a difference of 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 (2.51 x itself 13 times). That gives 392,372. I did the math to your favor. The Earth was roughly four hundred thousand times as bright as Sirius that evening and Starry Night software, though listing the magnitudes accurately, does not seem to do their usually good job of conveying this difference in some qualitative sense by showing the earth to be fairly bright.

As a matter of fact, you cannot see it, and one would think it was not even in the lunar sky that night judging by the software's visual.

Do I think this is proof of a hoax, absolutely not. But knowing Apollo fraudulent, when i see this stuff it makes me wonder. And I love Starry Night software and will continue to use it. It's a great tool as long as one has others.
 
Last edited:
Patrick1000 said:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_516144e5761359d2fa.jpg[/qimg]

Not good quality, but makes the point. If 00 41 15 north 23 26 00 east is known, someone with even a very very weak laser like this 1 watt argon affair fired from the Jet Propulsion Lab in Clifornia and photographed/filmed by Surveyor, could try and force Armstrong to have "their picture taken" and prove Apollo bogus when this laser image was not seen.

Note how it is night there in California when they lasers are imaged. This is the main reason why the "astronauts" moon walk early.
Click to expand...

Notice how overexposed the image has to be to even see the tiny little dots of the lasers, that are the same magnitude as the noise in the image. You think a camera set for daylight conditions would show the laser?
 
Patrick1000 said:
Say the French guys are running their laser continuously, not pulsing it. It doesn't have to be the French, but we'll use them because of their laser expertise. Now they hope Bean, and his CMDR will take a shot or two of the planet Earth while those guys are up there. Armstrong got a couple shots, not so great, but got them. So these guys are hoping to see their laser beam in official NASA photos. Might even be a good idea to plan such photos as part of the mission's authentication.

Now, this would be innocent enough. BUT, assume Apollo to be fraudulent, then someone might really scheme to blindside you with a strong beam(s), continuously, might even try from different locations on Earth. If they do not see their lasers, and assuming the earth was photographed at the time, they would at least know for themselves that Apollo was bogus.
Click to expand...

Because they wouldn't even consider the possibility that their aim was off by a tiny bit, right?
 
Holy crap. I thought you folks were exaggerating at first, but after reading his posts I am flabbergasted at the lengths Patrick1000 will go to keep debating such an untenable position.

I know it's fruitless, and has probably been asked of him a thousand times, but Patrick what would it take for you to begin considering that you just may be wrong about the moon landings? I mean seriously. What more evidence would you need?
 
Earth Shadows?

So on the evening of the landing, the sun is at azimuth 88 degrees and the earth opposite the sun in the west at azimuth 270 degrees. The earth is higher, bright but not as bright as the sun. When the astronauts are in shadow relative to the sun, they should be in earth light and maybe at times we might see earth shadows?
 
Last edited:
Just an idea 'bout the shadows

I am pretty much married to analysis of the narrative as a method for uncovering truths about Apollo, but looking at my starry night just now, it got me thinking about this stuff. The earth is higher then the sun at roughly 60 degrees. It's sitting almost directly opposite the sun at azimuth 270 degrees, so due west. They don't take pictures of it. I know already one reason has to do with the lasers, but just kicking around ideas in my head about the lighting, makes one wonder. Most of the time, the astronauts have 2 light sources on them, sun from pretty much due east at and up at say 12 degrees and then the earth, not nearly as bright, but still very bright at 60 degrees up and due west. Lots to think about, guess photography people have done this sort of thing, but fun for me to "type out loud".
 
Last edited:
Dude. What you are doing is tantamount to claiming WWII never happened because of an anomaly in a couple pictures of the war in Europe and an unclear communication between Admiral Yamamoto and the Japanese Emperor.

It's ludicrous! What's wrong with you?
 
What Patrick failes to mention, you can adjust the brighter objects in these types of progams to avoid drowning out the sky with gare. Case in point - look at the sun on the lower right
 
Patrick1000 said:
Does it have to be an "either or", one or the other lying? Also, could you simply be mistaken, "fooled", as opposed to be intentionally misleading/lying?

Is it possible for me to get a look at the photos?
Click to expand...

I've already told you that these photos are unavailable for the time being, so no, you may not see them.

Yes, if the Apollo missions were fraudulent, then I, my officemate, or the LRO team must be lying. No, I am not mistaken. I'm not talking about a furry blob in the woods, or a light in the sky. I'm talking about a clear, unambiguous image at half-meter resolution.

Now, once again: Am I liar? Is my officemate? Is the LRO team? Are you going to continue to evade the question?

(For those who are interested, the image that I'm talking about is similar to these, but slightly higher quality.)
 
Patrick1000 said:
So Starry Night says of their pro 6 software;

"Starry Night Pro is a powerful program designed for those with a serious interest in astronomy. Increase your in-the-field observing success with features such as the Events Finder to choose targets, or customized Observing Lists for a specific night or object of interest. Print out three-view star hopping charts customized to your equipment to effortlessly guide you to challenging objects. With extensive data sets, advanced telescope control, and comprehensive observational tools you'll soon transform your computer into a sophisticated virtual observatory."

Certainly, the software is not perfect. I am not a professional astronomer, though some who are use this as a tool and like it. I use it to study the night sky.

What is important are Starry Night's numbers. At the time of Armstrong's exit from the LM, the apparent magnitude of Sirius , the brightest star in the sky was -1.47, so to your favor I will call that -2.0 to make the calculation easier. I will make Sirius more bright, to your advantage. The Earth is apparent magnitude -16.28 and I will again adjust to your advantage to make my calculation easier and use -16.0 for the earth magnitude.

Now, I challenge you to find a data base, academic or commercial, that is at variance from these numbers by any meaningful degree. Look at the numbers used by academics on THAT VERY DAY and you will find Sirius to be about -1.47 and the earth from the moon -16.28. Starry night may not be perfect, but these numbers here are quite accurate, produce others if you can. I would welcome your challenge in this regard.

-2.0 to -16.0 is a difference of 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 x 2.51 (2.51 x itself 13 times). That gives 392,372. I did the math to your favor. The Earth was roughly four hundred thousand times as bright as Sirius that evening and Starry Night software, though listing the magnitudes accurately, does not seem to do their usually good job of conveying this difference in some qualitative sense by showing the earth to be fairly bright.

As a matter of fact, you cannot see it, and one would think it was not even in the lunar sky that night judging by the software's visual.

Do I think this is proof of a hoax, absolutely not. But knowing Apollo fraudulent, when i see this stuff it makes me wonder. And I love Starry Night software and will continue to use it. It's a great tool as long as one has others.
Click to expand...

... You didn't bother to click the link and ask them why did you?
 
twinstead said:
Holy crap. I thought you folks were exaggerating at first, but after reading his posts I am flabbergasted at the lengths Patrick1000 will go to keep debating such an untenable position.

I know it's fruitless, and has probably been asked of him a thousand times, but Patrick what would it take for you to begin considering that you just may be wrong about the moon landings? I mean seriously. What more evidence would you need?
Click to expand...

He's a young troll,and a very entertaining young troll.
 
Patrick1000 said:
Not sure what you mean abaddon so will answer the question "both ways". The purpose of the original 1968 Surveyor VII shot was to demonstrate the feasibility of the LRRR experiment.

In the context of a moon landing, the fear would be someone would force this photo.

If you look at the voice transcript , you'll find that the CapCom/astronauts discuss laser light. Claiming to have seen and photographed lasers just after the moon walk(I think when just up in orbit after LM launch but not sure). And Aldrin says he took pictures of this laser light that surprisingly was on the light side of the Earth. Armstrong said he saw the laser light too. This is at day 6 when the astronauts are "safe" and not operating cameras.

Ever see these shots of lasers that the astronauts claim to have abaddon?



Time 06 07 36 58

CC Roger. And the next question from our p_lnel is for Buzz. We recall that he reported seeing a laser upon AOS of the Earth the first time after - the first REV after ascent, and we're
wondering what color the beam was and if he could determine at the approximate location with
respect to the Earth. Over.
_
LMP It was mostly white, perhaps a tinge of yellowish color to it; and it seemed to be - as I recall it, the terminator of the Earth was toward the
horizon and seemed to be about a quarter to a third of the way down from - down towards the
terminator of the Earth - from the opposite
horizon. That's a third to a quarter Earth radii. Over.

CC Roger. And that puts it in the light side? Over.
_
LMP Roger. Yes, it was in the light side. The
Earth was about - a two-thirds lit Earth, with the terminator down toward the horizon. And
now coming from the opposite limb of the Earth,
the sunlight limb, coming down about one-quarter to one-third of a radius in from the limb.
Generally, pensively located with respect to a line drawn perpendicular to the terminator
that goes through the center. Over.

CC Roger, Buzz. We copy.

LMP And I got pictures of that. I'm sure ths,twill show up.

CDR And I saw that, too. It was a very bright spot of light and I confirm Buzz's observation of its position.

Sounds like a laser they photographed abaddon. Ever see the pics? Alternative explanations? Obviously these guys are interested in taking photos of lasers.
Click to expand...

I said this before, you ignored it.....I will say it again.....

Quoting Aldrin on the Moon 'photographing' a laser, to 'prove' he wasn't on the Moon......


DUMB!
 
Buckaroo said:
I've already told you that these photos are unavailable for the time being, so no, you may not see them.

Yes, if the Apollo missions were fraudulent, then I, my officemate, or the LRO team must be lying. No, I am not mistaken. I'm not talking about a furry blob in the woods, or a light in the sky. I'm talking about a clear, unambiguous image at half-meter resolution.

Now, once again: Am I liar? Is my officemate? Is the LRO team? Are you going to continue to evade the question?

(For those who are interested, the image that I'm talking about is similar to these, but slightly higher quality.)
Click to expand...

He doesn't need to see them.if he is right then you are a liar. Why can't CT delusionauts ever answer a straight question? Is he a liar,.Patrick?
 
twinstead said:
Dude. What you are doing is tantamount to claiming WWII never happened because of an anomaly in a couple pictures of the war in Europe and an unclear communication between Admiral Yamamoto and the Japanese Emperor.

It's ludicrous! What's wrong with you?
Click to expand...

Here is a take on that.
The commentary on the assorted conspiracy techniques is quite entertaining. :)
 
dafydd said:
He doesn't need to see them.if he is right then you are a liar. Why can't CT delusionauts ever answer a straight question? Is he a liar,.Patrick?
Click to expand...

Look, he still hasn't answered the question of, if as he proposes, only a few at the top faked it, then all the scientists and engineers must have built a working spacecraft. Why did they not just use it? He has no explanation.
 
Nor has he been willing to even wave-off the questions about radio transmissions from the moon. He appears afraid to even address the question.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom