Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

Status
Not open for further replies.
As we're supposed to address the argument and not the arguer.....

your argument is full of crap.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/~tmurphy/apollo/doc/Skytel.pdf

An eager young reporter took footage of a calibration reflector, didn't stop to ask questions but instead rushed his film off to New York. Walter Cronkite, sitting in front of a camera and being fed data to report, announced that the footage depicted a laser bouncing off the reflector.

Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates.

Lick did NOT have the correct coordinates.

Your argument is a dubmsaa
 
Patrick1000 said:
That's a mighty risky and big claim to be making there Matt. Sure your colleagues want you to be saying that? Since you did, I will challenge you.
Click to expand...
Unwarranted assumptions. No risk involved in telling the truth. Not a "big claim" just the historical fact. Implication that somehow, we are all "colleagues". Invalid challenge asked and answered multiple times.

Patrick1000 said:
So there in Fight International Magazine I have presented evidence that Neil Armstrong has the exact coordinates of Tranquility Base before they were ever acknowledged as having been determined by the AOT, accelerometer, PNGS, AGS, rendezvous radar(Reed's method just before ascent), photos(not even looked at yet). See the Mission Report Matt for a complete list of the methods and the numbers(section 5).

AND Matt, the coordinates on Armstrong's DSKY ; 00 41 15 N and 23 26 00 E are not even the same as those in the Mission Report/The acknowledged NASA numbers.
Click to expand...
"fight Magazine", Really?
All you have shown is that different methods provided different (slightly) coordinates. Armstrongs were not necessarily the best.

Patrick1000 said:
So Matt, how is it Armstrong has these numbers in his DSKY window, before they were ever formally calculated?
Click to expand...
Ah, you reveal your youth. There was no "DSKY window". You assume that because the DSKY was a computer interface, it was much as modern computers. It wasn't. It was an array of 7 segment numerics. No windows.

Patrick1000 said:
AND, why are they different from the accelerometer derived, PNGS derived, AOT derived, photo derived, David Reed's much later calculated rendezvous radar derived numbers?
Click to expand...
They were all slightly different. Why is the difference between Armstrongs numbers ant Reeds more important than the difference between the photo derived numbers and the PNGS numbers?

Patrick1000 said:
I say the DSKY numbers are too good to be true. Even if they did magically appear there, they are different from the coordinates , all the coordinates as derived by way of all the NASA acknowledged methods Matt.
Click to expand...
So on the one hand you claim that Armstrong/Aldrin didn't know where they were, but on the other hand you claim the DSKY numbers were "too good to be true". It can't be both. Which is it?


Patrick1000 said:
So I say this shows foreknowledge. Armstrong has not only THE numbers, but they differ from NASA's other best numbers per NASA's own Mission Report.
Click to expand...
See above.

Patrick1000 said:
You made a pretty big claim there Matt. Looks like it's gonna' be hard to back it up.
Click to expand...
Science backs it up.

Patrick1000 said:
I have an hour to board. Care to give it a shot and prove the ol' man wrong? Come on Matt, let's see you debunk my claim. Here Armstong's got the numbers before they are "calculated". Are you able to prove me wrong?
Click to expand...
You have claimed that they both didn't know where they were, and that they had impossibly accurate positional data. It still can't be both.
Patrick1000 said:
Pease join in one and all. I suggest Matt is in over his head. I have an hour. I'll stay posted. See what you guys got. Please, a concrete answer, thank you very much. Pat
Click to expand...

You are in over your head. You can't even keep your own fantasy straight.
 
Patrick1000 said:
Time for one last one abaddon. This is a challenge worthy of your prodigious abilities. Take a look at my challenge to Matt. Did he overstep there? Can you help him? I really do wish I did not have to go. I would be so curious to see how you tackled this difficulty.

Best too you abaddon, perhaps I can check your response from Europe, but then I will be in Delhi and won't get on line for the most part.

See you in one month! Pat
Click to expand...

OK now let's see what we have here.

A. I addressed your post.
B. At 7:41 you had an hour before your flight to India
C. At 11:30 you posted the above.
D. You claim you will check from Delhi in Europe if possible.

How embarrassing.
 
Patrick1000 said:
I can write circles in the sky around you and your bogus phony space ship, thank you very much.
Click to expand...
Would that be on your fantasy flight to Delhi, famed capital of Europe?

Patrick1000 said:
This party is over dude!!!!
Click to expand...
Yes, you destroyed it when you went right over into shrill use of all caps and excessive use of exclamation marks.

Airline and flight number please.
 
Last edited:
Patrick1000 said:
There are your coordinates Red, the capCom has them 6 days before the laser was said to have worked by the very scientists operating it. Pity!!!!
Click to expand...

At. What. Time. Did. Lick. Get. The. Coordinates?
 
abaddon said:
And. What. Coordinates. Were. Given?
Click to expand...

To be fair he did answer that half of the question. though he still didn't give a time.

Patrick1000 said:
[snip blather]
Has to be my last one D or I really will miss my plane. Lick was given the coordinates 00 41 15 N, 23 26 00 E per laser operator Remington Stone on the evening of 07/20/1969.
[Snip more blather]
Click to expand...

The pair question to this is:
What.coordinates.did.Reed.calculate?
 
Last edited:
ApolloGnomon said:
As we're supposed to address the argument and not the arguer.....

your argument is full of crap.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/~tmurphy/apollo/doc/Skytel.pdf

An eager young reporter took footage of a calibration reflector, didn't stop to ask questions but instead rushed his film off to New York. Walter Cronkite, sitting in front of a camera and being fed data to report, announced that the footage depicted a laser bouncing off the reflector.

Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates.




It would hardly seem to matter now regardless given the fact the Capcom said the LRRR had been successfully targeted. A bit of a lie no matter how one slices it. I believe we all agree that the LRRR was not successfully targeted until 08/01/1969. And in a very real sense, the coordinates given to the Lick Observatory Staff are moot, as we have an excellent reference in FIDO David Reed who informs us that the group there at Mission Control did not have ANY useful coordinates. this is why he calculated them on his own by way of the rendezvous radar.

The story about the reporter who thought he had the Laser "scope" is well known to us all Apollo. i suggest you read about it a bit more and you'll see this piece of history has no bearing on the matters at hand. If you do not unearth the truth in this matter, I shall inform you in a later post. It is interesting because I believe Walter Chronkite actually announced the LRRR had been targeted with respect to this.

Of course if a CapCom says an LRRR is targeted, that is something that would be "checked" so the CapComs report above is a "lie" by him and those that hatched the plot. So interesting.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Patrick1000 said:
Here is a quote from the December 1969 issue of National Geographic, THE FLIGHT OF APOLLO 11, by Kenneth Weaver.

"Laser Hits a Far-off Target

As soon as Neil Armstrong had put the laser reflector in place and carefully aimed it at earth, scientists began firing powerful pulses of ruby laser light at it. The second and third largest telescopes in the world (after Mount Palomar's)—the 120-incher at Lick Observatory, on Mount Hamilton, California, and a brand-new 107—incher at McDonald Observatory, Fort Davis, Texas-were used to concentrate the beams. Light passing backward through one of these telescopes spreads out to a spot only a few miles wide by the time it hits the Sea of Tranquillity."
Click to expand...


For those who are naturally concerned about Patrick1000's lack of accuracy, I can confirm that his words between the exclamation marks are indeed accurate.

However, he has followed his usual form of not providing proper references (which is surprising considering how highly-educated he claims to be :-) ) and screwed up as follows:

1. Omitted the full title of the article (which starts on page 752 of National Geographic, December 1969, and is part three of five parts): The Flight of Apollo 11: "One giant leap for mankind" and it is by Kenneth F. Weaver, Assistant Editor.

2. Left out the page number of the quote, which is on page 776.

3. Omitted the paragraph which follows and makes things clearer and includes the term "lunar night". The complete quote follows:--


National Geographic, December 1969, The Flight of Apollo 11: "One giant leap for mankind, by Kenneth F Weaver, Assistant Editor, page 776.
Laser Hits a Far-off Target

As soon as Neil Armstrong had put the laser reflector in place and carefully aimed it at earth, scientists began firing powerful pulses of ruby laser light at it. The second and third largest telescopes in the world (after Mount Palomar's)—the 120-incher at Lick Observatory, on Mount Hamilton, California, and a brand-new 107—incher at McDonald Observatory, Fort Davis, Texas—were used to concentrate the beams. Light passing backward through one of these telescopes spreads out to a spot only a few miles wide by the time it hits the Sea of Tranquillity.

At first no detectable light returned; the brilliance of reflected sunlight obscured whatever laser light might be struggling back. But shortly before lunar night, the telescope at Lick began to pick up signals, and McDonald has since detected them repeatedly.
Click to expand...


Patrick1000: Since you have quoted National Geographic, have you contacted the society and asked it if it endorses your claim that Apollo 11 was faked? Again, please try really, really hard to answer like a well-educated adult, without the wall of childish whaffle. You failed miserably last time. Just yes or no would suffice.
 
Last edited:
But shortly before lunar night, the telescope at Lick began to pick up signals, and McDonald has since detected them repeatedly.
Click to expand...
Didn't Apollo land in the lunar morning PaTeaDash?
Remind me again...how long is a lunar day?
 
abaddon said:
Unwarranted assumptions. No risk involved in telling the truth. Not a "big claim" just the historical fact. Implication that somehow, we are all "colleagues". Invalid challenge asked and answered multiple times.


"fight Magazine", Really?
All you have shown is that different methods provided different (slightly) coordinates. Armstrongs were not necessarily the best.


Ah, you reveal your youth. There was no "DSKY window". You assume that because the DSKY was a computer interface, it was much as modern computers. It wasn't. It was an array of 7 segment numerics. No windows.


They were all slightly different. Why is the difference between Armstrongs numbers ant Reeds more important than the difference between the photo derived numbers and the PNGS numbers?


So on the one hand you claim that Armstrong/Aldrin didn't know where they were, but on the other hand you claim the DSKY numbers were "too good to be true". It can't be both. Which is it?



See above.


Science backs it up.


You have claimed that they both didn't know where they were, and that they had impossibly accurate positional data. It still can't be both.


You are in over your head. You can't even keep your own fantasy straight.
Click to expand...


Ahhhhhh but it can be both. Actually none of it is true. The Eagle being "lost" is for those who may want to photograph it. The Eagle being sort of found, is for the people like Reed.

And, if I show foreknowledge, it is FRAUD regardless. If I prove someone did something wrong, I need not provide motive to demonstrate guilt. It may help.

It may be or may not be the case the coordinates of Tranquility Base were "hidden" to avoid a Russian snapshot. But tone way or the other, if I show there was foreknowledge, it means fraud nevertheless. Just like the rocks and photos and telemetry. The details are to be worked out.

There is no disputing that the Lick Observatory Staff were given some coordinates on the night of 07/20/1969. and there is no disputing the LRRR was not targeted until 08/01/1969. And so there is no disputing that the CapCom making reference to a successfully targeted LRRR is a lie, as it most certainly cannot be a mistake, such vital information being passed to the CapCom only after it has been verified. There is no record of this having been verified by anyone. The CapCom's controller made it up and passed it to him. It is frank evidence of FRAUD.

When the astronauts there 6 days into the trip play as though they do not know where they are, this is evidence of FRAUD. This is the case as the Lick Observatory Staff were given very specific coordinates that night, they were repeated 3 times and the man who targeted the laser says those coordinates were 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. Who is mistaken? Not Remington Stone, he is not making this up. Reed is not making up the story about walking into work and not having coordinates either. Both are true, Eagle lost and found. Lost for I suggest the Russians and found for our navigation/FIDO types.

With respect to my speculations about motive for this ploy, I may or may not be correst, but this does not mean there is no Foreknowledge. These people are criminals and I am demonstrating that to be the case. The motives and methods are somewhat unclear, but we know they are guilty as the LRRR was never targeted until 08/01/1969.

I realize this is difficult for us all, but as we go along, we will find more and more of this lying.
 
abaddon said:
OK now let's see what we have here.

A. I addressed your post.
B. At 7:41 you had an hour before your flight to India
C. At 11:30 you posted the above.
D. You claim you will check from Delhi in Europe if possible.

How embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you like to know about my job(s). Betcha' you'd think I was pretty cool then. No way I'm telling. So sleepy now.
 
abaddon said:
Would that be on your fantasy flight to Delhi, famed capital of Europe?


Yes, you destroyed it when you went right over into shrill use of all caps and excessive use of exclamation marks.

Airline and flight number please.
Click to expand...

I think the capcom claiming the LRRR was successfully targeted on day what?, 4 there, whatever, well before 08/01/1969, is one of the most significant "findings" ever made by an HB. Take it or leave it, I believe that to be true. It proves FRAUD. Not motive, but FRAUD. We see with this that FRAUD is fact. That is the only way one can explain it. I welcome your alternative explanation. Please abaddon, tell me how you explain this bull?
 
Last edited:
abaddon said:
Nope, the typical route is to connect in Newark, and fly non-stop across the Atlantic to Delhi over Africa. Nowhere next nor near Europe.

ETA: linky for anyone sufficiently motivated to verify what we already know to be a fantasy. http://www.continental.com/CMS/ContinentalDocuments/pdfs/route-maps/co-world_201012.pdf
Click to expand...

You have NO idea where I even am now. And my location is irrelevant to this thread's topic. Addresss my questions abaddon if you please. Your explanation for the CAPCOM comment would be a splendid place for you to start.
 
Redtail said:
At. What. Time. Did. Lick. Get. The. Coordinates?
Click to expand...

Asked and answered, don't jerk my chain. I gave you good references. The burden of proof lies with you to discredit my references. Remington Stone and the National Geographic Magazine. If you succeed, I shall present you with others. I will answer all questions relevant to this theme, but not the same question twice if you have not been able to discredit my references. And as you have made no case whatsoever against them, this is not the case presently. I have PROVEN FOREKNOWLEDGE outside the context of the official story and this equates to FRAUD unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Have at it, I await your challenge with enthusiasm.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom