Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[R.A.F.]

I write for myself.

It's seldom that hoax believers admit how ignorant they are...thanks.

 

[sts60]

... As you yourself pointed out in your Fattydash incarnation at ApolloHoax, the coordinates 00°41′15″N, 23°26′00″W are typed in a different font to the rest of the text, indicating that they are a later insertion. Nothing wrong with that if it helps accuracy, but hardly contemporary with Apollo 11, and not at all proving that they are the figures Lick had on 20 July 1969.

Actually, it's better than that. fattydash/Patrick1000/DoctorTea/BFischer/BSpassky/sicilian/MaryB/vigilantnight/briskwalk/mvinson/<and a few others> claimed that it had been "tampered with". Just like it was a "fact" that his computer had been tampered with, before it wasn't. The funny thing is that poor fd/P1k/DT/etc.etc.etc. has prattled on at length about how "inconsistent" accounts are necessarily untrue and dishonest, yet has backtracked and contradicted himself so many times I've lost count... and won't answer #1 or #5 (or any of the others, for that matter) from the questions I posted quite a while back.

 

[sts60]

What's also pretty funny is the way Patrick1000 throws all his sock-puppets under the bus in order to evade being caught in yet another of a string of embarrassing errors. First he tells us his imaginary playmates are this ultra-erudite, "super tech savvy" group of polylingual physicians, then they are "terrible with numbers" and "couldn't add, subtract, divide, multiple [sic] their way of [sic] a... bag".

(The narrative is inconsistent, internally incoherent and therefore necessarily untrue... except, apparently, when it applies to his own ramblings. [Squidward]Whatever.[/Squidward])

If the "group" was anything other than some voices in his head, they might by kind of angry at him. Fortunately, P1k/fd/etc. has nothing to fear in that direction.

BTW, it is possible he's going to India. Maybe he's from there, and Mom and Dad are taking him back for a visit. 12-year-olds don't really get a choice in the matter.

 

[abaddon]

Once upon a time, a little boy was born with no legs, and flails in place of arms.

He spent his life flailing about but making no progress.

 

[Patrick1000]

Debunk THIS MATT, others too if you are game!

LOL! I love it when HB morons debunk their own theories.

That's a mighty risky and big claim to be making there Matt. Sure your colleagues want you to be saying that? Since you did, I will challenge you.

So there in Fight International Magazine I have presented evidence that Neil Armstrong has the exact coordinates of Tranquility Base before they were ever acknowledged as having been determined by the AOT, accelerometer, PNGS, AGS, rendezvous radar(Reed's method just before ascent), photos(not even looked at yet). See the Mission Report Matt for a complete list of the methods and the numbers(section 5).

AND Matt, the coordinates on Armstrong's DSKY ; 00 41 15 N and 23 26 00 E are not even the same as those in the Mission Report/The acknowledged NASA numbers.

So Matt, how is it Armstrong has these numbers in his DSKY window, before they were ever formally calculated? AND, why are they different from the accelerometer derived, PNGS derived, AOT derived, photo derived, David Reed's much later calculated rendezvous radar derived numbers?

I say the DSKY numbers are too good to be true. Even if they did magically appear there, they are different from the coordinates , all the coordinates as derived by way of all the NASA acknowledged methods Matt.

So I say this shows foreknowledge. Armstrong has not only THE numbers, but they differ from NASA's other best numbers per NASA's own Mission Report.

You made a pretty big claim there Matt. Looks like it's gonna' be hard to back it up.

I have an hour to board. Care to give it a shot and prove the ol' man wrong? Come on Matt, let's see you debunk my claim. Here Armstong's got the numbers before they are "calculated". Are you able to prove me wrong?

Pease join in one and all. I suggest Matt is in over his head. I have an hour. I'll stay posted. See what you guys got. Please, a concrete answer, thank you very much. Pat

 

[Patrick1000]

Another wall of text & still no answer to the question.
Perhaps you misunderstood.

At what time did lick get the coordinates?

Hello there Redtail. Per Remington's account, they watched Armstrong's first steps and did not have the coordinates then. As the story is typically told, shortly after the astronauts set the LRRR down, the coordinates are given to Lick and the LRRR is targeted and the laser begins to fire.

Here is a quote from the December 1969 issue of National Geographic, THE FLIGHT OF APOLLO 11, by Kenneth Weaver.

"Laser Hits a Far-off Target

As soon as Neil Armstrong had put the laser reflector in place and carefully aimed it at earth, scientists began firing powerful pulses of ruby laser light at it. The second and third largest telescopes in the world (after Mount Palomar's)—the 120-incher at Lick Observatory, on Mount Hamilton, California, and a brand-new 107—incher at McDonald Observatory, Fort Davis, Texas-were used to concentrate the beams. Light passing backward through one of these telescopes spreads out to a spot only a few miles wide by the time it hits the Sea of Tranquillity."

I am sure you note Mr. Weaver suggests Armstrong put the Laser down, many accounts say Aldrin. For one like me, it matters not as I know it is all phony regardless. Anyway, thought this to be a good reference as National Geographic is so RESPECTED. Wonder who fed Mr. Weaver that crock there. Anyway, there are plenty of similar statements that Lick had the info and the LRRR was targeted shortly after it was set down.

 

[phunk]

Miss your flight?

 

[Patrick1000]

You'll have to point out those posts where you are "beating up" on us. For that majority of this thread, people have been making you look like a fool...hardly any time for these imaginary "beatings".

Take a look at my last message to Matt RAF. I'd suggest he's getting pretty badly beaten up there and as I am boarding now, I'll go out on a limb and say, betcha' a million bucks I don't see a concrete answer from Matt with respect to my challenge.

No more piling on. Won't do to Matt what I did to X. There it is Matt. give it a shot, but I think you botched it. Your denial of any vulnerability there was foolish and I think you got nailed.

Still, wish you all well. I'll miss this! Pat

 

[Patrick1000]

Miss your flight?

I have to go out of town on a little job phunk. See you in a month. Pat

 

[Patrick1000]

Once upon a time, a little boy was born with no legs, and flails in place of arms.

He spent his life flailing about but making no progress.

Time for one last one abaddon. This is a challenge worthy of your prodigious abilities. Take a look at my challenge to Matt. Did he overstep there? Can you help him? I really do wish I did not have to go. I would be so curious to see how you tackled this difficulty.

Best too you abaddon, perhaps I can check your response from Europe, but then I will be in Delhi and won't get on line for the most part.

See you in one month! Pat

 

[drewid]

Hello there Redtail. Per Remington's account, they watched Armstrong's first steps and did not have the coordinates then. As the story is typically told, shortly after the astronauts set the LRRR down, the coordinates are given to Lick and the LRRR is targeted and the laser begins to fire.

Here is a quote from the December issue of National Geographic, THE FLIGHT OF APOLLO 11, by Kenneth Weaver.

"Laser Hits a Far-off Target

As soon as Neil Armstrong had put the laser reflector in place and carefully aimed it at earth, scientists began firing powerful pulses of ruby laser light at it. The second and third largest telescopes in the world (after Mount Palomar's)—the 120-incher at Lick Observatory, on Mount Hamilton, California, and a brand-new 107—incher at McDonald Observatory, Fort Davis, Texas-were used to concentrate the beams. Light passing backward through one of these telescopes spreads out to a spot only a few miles wide by the time it hits the Sea of Tranquillity."

I am sure you note Mr. Weaver suggests Armstrong put the Laser down, many accounts say Aldrin. For one like me, it matters not as I know it is all phony regardless. Anyway, thought this to be a good reference as National Geographic is so RESPECTED. Wonder who fed Mr. Weaver that crock there. Anyway, there are plenty of similar statements that Lick had the info and the LRRR was targeted shortly after it was set down.

At what time were Lick given the co-ordinates?
What coordinates were they given?

 

[Patrick1000]

At what time were Lick given the co-ordinates?
What coordinates were they given?

Has to be my last one D or I really will miss my plane. Lick was given the coordinates 00 41 15 N, 23 26 00 E per laser operator Remington Stone on the evening of 07/20/1969. That said, you can find accounts, such as from PI on the LRRR experiment, Alley, who says the coordinates used were the coordinates based on best trajectory data. You can see the Mission Report for those numbers in section 5. It is generally accepted that the coordinates were called in and the laser began to fire just after the LRRR was set down. I gave the National Geographic piece as a reference just because it is so respected, though as I pointed out above, the author Weaver says Armstrong put the thing down and most say Aldrin I believe. No matter to me.

See if you can help Matt out there. My challenge question to your group is quite potent. Would love to see a few tries from your side when I get to Europe. Will check on line, but won't post. Got lots to do.

Thanks for the challenge. Pat

 

[matt.tansy]

blah blah I'll throw out more inane ramblings blah blah blah foreknowledge blah blah blah

You whine about inconsistent narrative but can't even see the inconsistent narrative of your own citations. Read what you posted again, carefully, but this time employ logic (hint: time moves inexorably forward; it can never move backwards).

 

[Patrick1000]

the point stands and as all can see it is a good one!

You whine about inconsistent narrative but can't even see the inconsistent narrative of your own citations. Read what you posted again, carefully, but this time employ logic (hint: time moves inexorably forward; it can never move backwards).

Matt, the point stands and as all can see it is a good one! Armstrong has the coordinates outside of the context of their "official Apollo 11 Mission " calculation, by any means!

Possession of the numbers outside of NASA's recognized Apollo 11 Mission context amounts to foreknowledge. To know the coordinates before they are calculated is commensurate with no other explanation than FRAUD.

You would do well to give this one a shot Matt. In all seriousness, give it a try really.

Thanks for your challenges over the last 2 weeks. Hope to see a good answer from you when I get to Europe.

Otherwise, until Sept. best to you, Pat

 

[Hans]

Do you think we could get some value from this long meaningless thread if we could agree on a good crab salad recipe?

 

[Patrick1000]

Lookin' Mighty Foolish

Do you think we could get some value from this long meaningless thread if we could agree on a good crab salad recipe?

You are looking mighty foolish Hans with that formidable challenge question staring you in the face. So where did those coordinates come from Hans, and why does Armstrong have them before they were calculated in the context of the Apollo 11 Mission narrative, and why are they different from the calculated coordinates as determined by ALL METHODS as they appear in the Mission Report section 5? You'd be wise too, as I have suggested to Matt, to take a shot at the substance of this challenge. there is a lot at stake for your side. Too much to sit idly by and watch the official story implode here without a single rock or photo being examined.

See you too in a month Hans, thanks for the great challenge, Pat

 

[SezMe]

Near as I can tell, Patrick1000 is now 5 hours late for his plane. Then, again, it might be a chartered flight so it is waiting for him. Or he might even own it so he sets the schedule. Seems no more of a stretch than so much else in this thread.

 

[GlennB]

Miss your flight?

It's India's loss. Think how he could have illuminated that troubled sub-continent.

 

[matt.tansy]

Matt, the point stands and as all can see it is a good one!

Only if you flip 2000 years of philosophy on its head and reverse modus tollens.

Armstrong has the coordinates outside of the context of their "official Apollo 11 Mission " calculation, by any means!

You said he got it from the DSKY!!! Drop out of school. You'd make a great stand up comedian.

Possession of the numbers outside of NASA's recognized Apollo 11 Mission context amounts to foreknowledge.

Unless someone at NASA got on a phone and told somebody. Hey, that's what happened!

To know the coordinates before they are calculated

Did you just miss the fact that you just wrote the coordinates were displayed on the DSKY? You guarantee us one laugh per sentence.

You would do well to give this one a shot Matt. In all seriousness, give it a try really.

Thanks for your challenges over the last 2 weeks. Hope to see a good answer from you when I get to Europe.

Otherwise, until Sept. best to you, Pat

That would be the Labor Day school break.

Hey! Add the footnote (a) corrections to the PGNCS position (you know, the position displayed on the DSKY?) and see what you get.

 

[matt.tansy]

near as i can tell, patrick1000 is now 5 hours late for his plane school bus. Then, again, it might be a chartered flight school bus so it is waiting for him. Or he might even own it so he sets the schedule his mom might pick him up. Seems no more of a stretch than so much else in this thread.

ftfy