Obama got Pwned. Again.

[Puppycow]

I associate myself with James Fallows' remarks here:
Well, We've Answered This Question (Chess Master v. Pawn Dept)

Last month in four installments -- one, two, three, and four -- I posted readers' views on how we should understand President Obama's negotiating stance during the (unnecessary and abusive) debt-ceiling "showdown." Was he thinking eight steps ahead of the opposition, playing multi-dimensional chess while they were playing tic-tac-toe? Or was he a fatal step or two behind, playing patty-cake while they were playing Mixed Martial Arts? Chess master? Or pawn?

I think we know the answer, at least about this encounter. Pawn, and captured pawn at that.

The Republicans, with control of only one house of Congress, succeeded on virtually every point that mattered to them, especially to their most intransigent members. The Democrats, in control of the presidency and the other, "senior" house, succeeded on nothing that should have mattered to them, starting with implicitly legitimizing the conversion of the debt-ceiling vote into a hostage-taking exercise -- and ending with embracing a "compromise" that in the short term depresses hopes for dealing with our one genuine economic emergency, the unemployment crisis, and that in the long-run is likely to be as bad for our political system as for our economic prospects.

(You should read the whole thing. Especially Tom Tomorrow's cartoon.)

Obama's just too nice or too conflict averse to bargain worth a damn. Maybe he's too concerned about getting re-elected and so he's unwilling to risk anything that seems radical or too far to the left. And so he starts his bargaining by preemptively conceding half of what the other side wants as a starting position, and then concedes 80% more by negotiating.

And to top it all off, the whole thing could have been averted completely last December when democrats controlled both houses and it was a lame duck congress anyway, with 2 years before the next elections, so the political cost would have been minimized.

 

[Brainster]

As a poker player, I loved it when Obama told Boehner not to call his bluff. Anybody who says they're bluffing is going to get called.

 

[Kopji]

It's like, this is so totally why civilized people are at such a disadvantage over barbarians.

The civilized guy gets up, kisses his wife good morning, takes a short jog, washes up, reads the paper, plays with the kids a little and goes on in to work to find compromise and whatever lets him sleep well at night.

The barbarians, get up, kick the woman out of bed, sharpen the hatchets, slice some bacon and rub it under their armpits, and go off to kick ass on the civilized nerd.

I'm sooooo angry.

 

[theprestige]

I associate myself with James Fallows' remarks here:
Well, We've Answered This Question (Chess Master v. Pawn Dept)



(You should read the whole thing. Especially Tom Tomorrow's cartoon.)

Obama's just too nice or too conflict averse to bargain worth a damn. Maybe he's too concerned about getting re-elected and so he's unwilling to risk anything that seems radical or too far to the left. And so he starts his bargaining by preemptively conceding half of what the other side wants as a starting position, and then concedes 80% more by negotiating.

And to top it all off, the whole thing could have been averted completely last December when democrats controlled both houses and it was a lame duck congress anyway, with 2 years before the next elections, so the political cost would have been minimized.

Belabored analogy is belabored.

As a poker player, I loved it when Obama told Boehner not to call his bluff. Anybody who says they're bluffing is going to get called.

It's good to have such a seasoned negotiator and politician as president, isn't it?

It's like, this is so totally why civilized people are at such a disadvantage over barbarians.

The civilized guy gets up, kisses his wife good morning, takes a short jog, washes up, reads the paper, plays with the kids a little and goes on in to work to find compromise and whatever lets him sleep well at night.

The barbarians, get up, kick the woman out of bed, sharpen the hatchets, slice some bacon and rub it under their armpits, and go off to kick ass on the civilized nerd.

I'm sooooo angry.

 

[Puppycow]

Clive Crook writes in the Financial Times:

The Republicans have taken an enormous gamble. If default happens and they are blamed, they will pay a terrible price. In any other scenario, they win. The logic is brutal: they hardly budged, and the Democrats gave way. Many in his own party blame the president. They say he caved. Mr Obama may be the biggest loser in all this. And the question arises, does the United States want a loser in the White House?

How unfair, you may say. The Republicans took the country hostage by linking the debt ceiling to their plans for spending cuts, and then refused to deviate. Again and again, Mr Obama and the Democrats compromised. With default looming, that was the responsible thing to do.
. . .
You bet, it is unfair. On the other hand, it did not have to be this way. One must ask how Mr Obama and his party got themselves into this position.

 

[fuelair]

I associate myself with James Fallows' remarks here:
Well, We've Answered This Question (Chess Master v. Pawn Dept)



(You should read the whole thing. Especially Tom Tomorrow's cartoon.)

Obama's just too nice or too conflict averse to bargain worth a damn. Maybe he's too concerned about getting re-elected and so he's unwilling to risk anything that seems radical or too far to the left. And so he starts his bargaining by preemptively conceding half of what the other side wants as a starting position, and then concedes 80% more by negotiating.

And to top it all off, the whole thing could have been averted completely last December when democrats controlled both houses and it was a lame duck congress anyway, with 2 years before the next elections, so the political cost would have been minimized.

Unless he has something up his sleeve that works I will not vote for him again even if it means I do not vote for anyone for president. And I will never vote for any republicker. (not new, but just in case.)

 

[RandFan]

So, the Bush tax cuts has not stimulated the economy 10 years ago. The cash in the pockets of rich people in record numbers and this deal is supposed to do what? What about the jobs?

 

[RandFan]

Unless he has something up his sleeve that works I will not vote for him again even if it means I do not vote for anyone for president. And I will never vote for any republicker. (not new, but just in case.)

I don't know what to do. Obama was the first Democrat president I ever voted for. It's sad. We need Clinton back when he kicked GOP ass all over the place. Sad. Nothing to improve the economy. No new revenue. Just more of the failed supply side economics.

 

[Skeptic]

The barbarians, get up, kick the woman out of bed, sharpen the hatchets, slice some bacon and rub it under their armpits, and go off to kick ass on the civilized nerd.

Stop criticizing my alternative lifestyle, you bigot!

 

[Skeptic]

The Republicans took the country hostage by linking the debt ceiling to their plans for spending cuts, and then refused to deviate

That's the line my wife keeps giving me every time she overspends. I ask her to cut spending and she tells me to just raise the debt ceiling. "But honey" -- I tell her -- "we already owe the bank $14 trillion!". "I don't CARE!" she says. "You REFUSE to deviate, you bastard! Stop holding our household hostage!"

 

[Cain]

I would hardly consider the GOP chessmasters in this episode (in other cases, yes, but not when it came to the debt-limit).

As a poker player, I loved it when Obama told Boehner not to call his bluff. Anybody who says they're bluffing is going to get called.

Durban had it right: the Republicans are bluffing with other people's chips. They could give a ****.

They're ****in' crazy. This is some Lethal Weapon ****.

 

[RandFan]

That's the line my wife keeps giving me every time she overspends. I ask her to cut spending and she tells me to just raise the debt ceiling. "But honey" -- I tell her -- "we already owe the bank $14 trillion!". "I don't CARE!" she says. "You REFUSE to deviate, you bastard! Stop holding our household hostage!"

Raise taxes. We are at a 50 year low. And we are only talking about those making over $250,000. But it's funny that after all this time we draw a line in the sand now. Why did we throw away all that mony in Iraq? Why didn't we (GOP) tell Bush we just couldn't afford it. No, we kept our mouths shut and waited for a Democrat to be president to do anything. For the 8 years Bush was president we spent like drunken sailors and then all of a sudden we're making cutesy home budget analogies as if WE get it.

 

[Travis]

So, the Bush tax cuts has not stimulated the economy 10 years ago. The cash in the pockets of rich people in record numbers and this deal is supposed to do what? What about the jobs?

It was never about jobs. It is about the far rights distinct hatred of civilized society and their bloodlust to end it utterly. They've deluded themselves into thinking that when everything collapses they can reform society with themselves as unquestioned tyrants.

 

[Roboramma]

It was never about jobs. It is about the far rights distinct hatred of civilized society and their bloodlust to end it utterly. They've deluded themselves into thinking that when everything collapses they can reform society with themselves as unquestioned tyrants.

Do you really believe that? If you do, do you have any evidence about their internal psychology to present that might sway me?

If you don't, do you see how this only serves to polarize and push people more and more into opposing ideologies?

 

[RandFan]

It was never about jobs. It is about the far rights distinct hatred of civilized society and their bloodlust to end it utterly. They've deluded themselves into thinking that when everything collapses they can reform society with themselves as unquestioned tyrants.

I never that it was about jobs. The thrust of national GOP *state legislatures, governors, etc) action has been to end Roe v. wade and end unions.

RE: Destroyung American society, I'm cynical but not that cynical. But thats fine.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Democrats whine that a plan passing had to pass muster with Republicans to pass.

In other news, Republicans whine that a plan passing had to pass mus..

Honestly ,would you cut the hyperbole out?

 

[Puppycow]

Democrats whine that a plan passing had to pass muster with Republicans to pass.

Not if they had passed it in the lame duck session. And even now there is another option whereby he doesn't have to compromise at all.

Honestly ,would you cut the hyperbole out?

I'm a fairly middle-of-the road democrat. I don't think I'm being too hard on him.
The economy is in terrible shape and this won't help it get better. I'll probably still vote for him if there's no better alternative. But if somebody is running who will end the War on Drugs madness, that person gets my vote, even if that person is a fringe candidate with no chance to be elected.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

That's the line my wife keeps giving me every time she overspends. I ask her to cut spending and she tells me to just raise the debt ceiling. "But honey" -- I tell her -- "we already owe the bank $14 trillion!". "I don't CARE!" she says. "You REFUSE to deviate, you bastard! Stop holding our household hostage!"

A country isn't a household.

 

[SezMe]

We need Clinton back when he kicked GOP ass all over the place.

I don't think that's what happened. Slick Willy co-opted the GOP platform and made it his own. For example, he was instrumental in ending "welfare as we know it", a distinctly republican platform plank.

Remember the endless blathering about "triangulation". That's not kicking butt.

Obama is an unmitigated disaster but pining for what never was won't help.

 

[Puppycow]

I don't think that's what happened. Slick Willy co-opted the GOP platform and made it his own. For example, he was instrumental in ending "welfare as we know it", a distinctly republican platform plank.

Remember the endless blathering about "triangulation". That's not kicking butt.

Obama is an unmitigated disaster but pining for what never was won't help.

We need an FDR at this point. FDR was not afraid to take bold, radical action. And it obviously worked at the ballot box too, as he was elected 4 times.

Timidity is not a virtue.