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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Is it dropping for you, bunny?
LOL, uke2se struggles to save face...."but I knew all along"....

Let me give you a hint. Traditional german lands and lands that traditionally belonged to Germany are two different things.

There are no lands that traditionally belonged to Germany, just as there are no lands that traditionally belonged to Italy.

In both cases there are lands where traditionally 90 % of the inhabitants identified as German and German speakers or Italian and Italian speakers. One example of the former is the Sudetenland - a traditionally german land. Konigsberg has been German in identity from its founding, as was most of East Prussia for many centuries.
In the case of Koenigsberg and East Prussia, they were part of the original territory of Germany from beginning of its inception as a modern state.
 
LOL, uke2se struggles to save face...."but I knew all along"....

Let me give you a hint. Traditional german lands and lands that traditionally belonged to Germany are two different things.

There are no lands that traditionally belonged to Germany, just as there are no lands that traditionally belonged to Italy.

In both cases there are lands where traditionally 90 % of the inhabitants identified as German and German speakers or Italian and Italian speakers. One example of the former is the Sudetenland - a traditionally german land. Konigsberg has been German in identity from its founding, as was most of East Prussia for many centuries.
In the case of Koenigsberg and East Prussia, they were part of the original territory of Germany from beginning of its inception as a modern state.

If that's how you want to define "traditional German lands" then the nation of Germany had no claims to those lands at all. If the lands had belonged to the nation of Germany, one could argue that a claim existed. If it is just a matter of culture, there is no such claim. If it was, Sweden would have a claim on Denmark, Mexico would have a claim on Colombia, the US would have a claim on Canada, etc. This, of course, aint so.

Thank you, bunny, for once again destroying your own argument.
 
?

The "revisionism" you talk about isn't an honest investigation, though. It's the complete opposite.

Does This Mean Revisionism Is Dishonest Investigation? Or That It's Not Investigation At All? In Your Opinion.

Revisionism is why we now know that the Earth is round.
 
Does This Mean Revisionism Is Dishonest Investigation? Or That It's Not Investigation At All? In Your Opinion.

Learn the meaning of historical revisionism and you will learn why that doesn't apply to what you call "revisionism".
 
I wonder why? Sword of Truth forgets to mention this little detail.:):) Bear in mind that this group of criminal thugs have bombed, maimed and killed others and threatened their families as a matter of policy for decades. They are the muscle end of the holocaust industry. Here's a sample of their work regarding Cole. Talk about 'Hate Speech'!!

I said this previously, but apparently the mods felt it too combative and banished the post. So I'm going to say it again without the extraneous commentary:

Given the history of violence by white supremacists, skinheads, the KKK, neo-nazis, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qeada, The Iranian government and other groups involved Holocaust denial and recent statistics showing the extremely disproportionate targeting of jews for hate crimes it is inarguable that David Cole faced a far greater risk of violence and reprisal for acknowledging the historiocity of the commonly accepted account of the Holocaust than he did for his youthful indiscretions.
 
Does This Mean Revisionism Is Dishonest Investigation? Or That It's Not Investigation At All? In Your Opinion.

Revisionism is why we now know that the Earth is round.

The Earth is round but the Holocaust happened. There is a difference.
 
I said this previously, but apparently the mods felt it too combative and banished the post. So I'm going to say it again without the extraneous commentary:

Given the history of violence by white supremacists, skinheads, the KKK, neo-nazis, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qeada, The Iranian government and other groups involved Holocaust denial and recent statistics showing the extremely disproportionate targeting of jews for hate crimes it is inarguable that David Cole faced a far greater risk of violence and reprisal for acknowledging the historiocity of the commonly accepted account of the Holocaust than he did for his youthful indiscretions.

Very true. He has more to fear from the knucklehead racists who see him as a turncoat.
 
I'm sorry, but no. Your New Yorker quote-mine demonstrates nothing of the sort. The quote does not allow anyone to say that the children had been at Treblinka II - a point you conceded earlier on. If the children were not at Treblinka II, then no transit. (I doubt they were at Treblinka I, either, btw.)

It doesn't allow anyone to say definitively that the children had been at Treblinka. It allows anyone to say that the director of an orphanage was told by the children under his care who had been in several different camps that Treblinka was the worse.

It didn't say "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they heard Treblinka, in Poland, was the worst." It didn't say "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they say Treblinka, in Poland, was rumored to be the worst." It didn't say "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they say Treblinka, in Poland, was the worst. But they don't really know because none of them were actually there." It didn't say "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they say Treblinka, in Poland, was the worst. But they say the Huns put powdered glass in the soup so what do they know?"

There are no such qualifiers in what the director said. He said: "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they say Treblinka, in Poland, was the worst" which suggests that the director believes that the children have a familiarity with several different camps, including Treblinka. It's value is tempered, not by the statement but by the fact that it's a hearsay statement that was told to a reporter.

If the best you can manage to prove 'transit' is a vaguely worded out of context quote like this, then you are even more screwed than you possibly could realise.

The best I can manage to prove 'transit' is credible evidence that 700,000 plus Jews were sent there during the war. There wasn't a Shtetl the size of San Francisco at Treblinka at the end of the war. The hypothesis that all the Jews were gassed, buried, dug up, incinerated, and reburied is nullified by the lack of evidence of mass graves large enough to hold the city of San Francisco anywhere near Treblinka. The only possibility is that they went somewhere else.

This vaguely worded out of context quote is nothing more than a third hand reference to Treblinka being the worst camp some children had experienced.
 
It doesn't allow anyone to say definitively that the children had been at Treblinka. It allows anyone to say that the director of an orphanage was told by the children under his care who had been in several different camps that Treblinka was the worse.

It didn't say "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they heard Treblinka, in Poland, was the worst." It didn't say "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they say Treblinka, in Poland, was rumored to be the worst." It didn't say "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they say Treblinka, in Poland, was the worst. But they don't really know because none of them were actually there." It didn't say "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they say Treblinka, in Poland, was the worst. But they say the Huns put powdered glass in the soup so what do they know?"

There are no such qualifiers in what the director said. He said: "Many of our boys have been in four or five camps, and if you ask them, they say Treblinka, in Poland, was the worst" which suggests that the director believes that the children have a familiarity with several different camps, including Treblinka. It's value is tempered, not by the statement but by the fact that it's a hearsay statement that was told to a reporter.

But the statement is also vague and inconclusive. There is nothing to suggest that the 'boys' were actually claiming to have been at Treblinka. If they had been quoted saying 'we saw x' then this would be conclusive proof that they were claiming to have been at Treblinka. Instead they are introduced as having been at four or five camps, leading up to a generalising remark - 'Treblinka was the worst'.

Your fuss-making over absent qualifiers ignores the fact that there are equally absent qualifiers in the other direction, such as 'that they had experienced themselves personally'.

The best I can manage to prove 'transit' is credible evidence that 700,000 plus Jews were sent there during the war. There wasn't a Shtetl the size of San Francisco at Treblinka at the end of the war. The hypothesis that all the Jews were gassed, buried, dug up, incinerated, and reburied is nullified by the lack of evidence of mass graves large enough to hold the city of San Francisco anywhere near Treblinka. The only possibility is that they went somewhere else.

This vaguely worded out of context quote is nothing more than a third hand reference to Treblinka being the worst camp some children had experienced.

Your logic is, as usual, extremely biased. If you are going to resort to inference to the best explanation, which is what you are pretending to do, then you must obey the rules of inference, which means, paying attention to what evidence exists and weighing up both sides properly.

An honest examination of the evidence would indicate that there is more than zero evidence for Treblinka being an extermination camp, in the shape of the many witnesses, some documents confirming certain witness claims, and the physical evidence of the condition of the site in 1945.

By contrast, there is no evidence that Treblinka served as a transit camp for all the deportees. There is only the evidence that two transports were selected with a few hundred deportees going to Majdanek in spring 43 with rest remaining at Treblinka II to be killed, and that two or three transports were selected locally for Treblinka I, who were then returned to be killed at Treblinka II once they were worn out and useless as workers. Versus several hundred transports overall.

Whether the evidence for extermination meets your exacting standards or not is irrelevant, since there is much, much more of it than there is to suggest that 100s of 1000s of Jews "transited" Treblinka.

You don't seem to have noticed that you are resorting to deductive logic versus inductive logic

The only possibility is that they went somewhere else.

and that deductive logic will always lose to inductive logic when one is discussing empirical matters.

Indeed, there is a name for the fallacy that you have just committed, the fallacy of possible proof.

Either prove transit, or prove something else. Don't waltz up here and handwave possibilities around as anything other than desperate speculation.
 
It seems that being as dim as a glowworm's armpit is a prerequisite for being a Nazi.
 
The Holocaust Religion

"Why revisionism isn't"

If I proved to you that Ilya Ehrenberg is, to this day, more guilty than Julius Streicher, would it alter your belief system?

Would it turn Streicher's over-long rope into a pardon?

Would it remake Germany's National Guilt into International repentance?

Me personally... I believe Matthew 23.
 
Revisionism 202

The Holocaust happened to Russian Jews as well, yes.

"Certain pictures of the past have the ability to conveniently rearrange in our mind in order to soothe our consciousness. And today a perception has formed that in the 1930s the Jews were already forced out of the Soviet ruling elite and had nothing to do with the administration of the country. In the 1980s we see assertions like this: in the Soviet times, the Jews in the USSR were “practically destroyed as a people; they had been turned into a social group, which was settled in the large cities “as a social stratum to serve the ruling class.”

"No. Not only far from “serving”, the Jews were to the large extent members of the “ruling class.” And the “large cities,” the capitals of the constituent Soviet republics, were the very thing the authorities bought off through improved provisioning, furnishing and maintenance, while the rest of the country languished from oppression and poverty. And now, after the shock of the Civil War, after the War Communism, after the NEP and the first five-year plan, it was the peace-time life of the country that was increasingly managed by the government apparatus, in which the role of the Jews was quite conspicuous, at least until 1937-38."
--200 Years Together, by Alexander Solzhenitsyn

The purge of 1937-38 is your so-called Russian-Jewish-Holocaust. In part, it's the reason why Stalin was killed... so that it didn't happen again.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Stalin.html?id=f-HerzgvxssC
 
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