Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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"Fuss" over gassings while ignoring virtually everything else about the holocaust? Because there's substantial evidence for virtually everything about the holocaust except the gassings, we should just accept that the gassings are true?

There's substantial evidence for the gassings too. Why are you in denial over this?
 
At The Risk Of Being Labeled Ignorant...

What is disrespectful is your utter ignorance of the history. The victims were trapped behind German lines and closed off in ghettos...

Kiev had 200,000 Jewish inhabitants before the war...

Most of the Jews in the Soviet Union lived on the western borders...

Same pattern in Poland. 300,000 Polish Jews fled east across the Nazi-Soviet border in 1939, before there were really large-scale killings but when they knew that life under the Nazis would be unpleasant...

The ghettos were a Rabbi/Pharisee invention to control the Judahites. The Pharisees couldn't care less about their flock... as is evident by the NY-inspired boycotting of Germany who was possitively known to have substantial numbers of captive Judahite Communists. What did they expect to happen when the food supply ran out? Since Russia had already swallowed the main part of the crop lands and forced Germans living there back into the cities, the Germans were FORCED to war... see below.

Kiev had a GULag... Babi Yar was most likely it's common burial ground. One and one make two, every time. In 1943, the Germans found Katyn Forest mass graves, and true to form, Russia said the Nazis did it... but the archives now show that Stalin signed the murder order. So, what ELSE has been done by the Communists and blamed on the Nazis? I know some of it... and the research goes on. :cool:

Most of the Judahites lived in the cities--as is true everywhere--in such numbers that they virtually guarantee themselves control of those cities and the politics thereof. The fact is that almost ALL of Russia lived on the Western border... until the GULag's zeks built the outlying towns.


Forced War: Poland (and all of Eastern Europe), 1939.

"People, and very many historians conveniently seem to forget that the outbreak of the World War II in 1939 was caused not only by Hitler, but also by Stalin: Soviet Union invading the eastern half of Poland, and Germany invading the western half." The Expulsion Of Germans, By Dr. Alfred de Zayas

"The Germans were expelled, not just with an absence of over-nice considera- tion, but with the very maximum of brutality." Our Threatened Values, by Victor Gollancz

The websites at wintersonnenwende dot com, and hitler dot org have more on these historical issues. The first talks at length about the expulsions of Germans from historical German Lands; and the second gives Hitler's speeches, from the Communists burning the Reichstag, and on...

.................
Bottom Line: If you're not willing to be skeptical about what the MSM is force-feeding you, are you actually ABLE to be a skeptic... Seriously?


Research:

Solzhenitsyn says they (Russians) smuggled guns to the communists in Buchenwald camp. Food for thought on how and who was running... at least that one... camp. The Gulags had thieves (aka cannibals) and stoolies and bitches (I'm sorry, that's what Solzhenitsyn says they were called) who actually ran the "zeks" (prisoners). And so, they preyed upon the zeks, just like what happened in Buchenwald.

In fact, so much of what Solzhenitsyn writes fills in the gaps... between what was CLAIMED at Nuremberg and what actually WAS happening in Russia's GULag Archipelago. For example, the so-called gas vans... labeled diesel (LOL) by the prosecution... was invented for use in the GULag as early as 1936... the Black Marias revamped for efficiency. Not only Solzhenitsyn points this fact out... it's in a Documentary about the Monster: Stalin, as well.
 
The ghettos were a Rabbi/Pharisee invention to control the Judahites. The Pharisees couldn't care less about their flock... as is evident by the NY-inspired boycotting of Germany who was possitively known to have substantial numbers of captive Judahite Communists. What did they expect to happen when the food supply ran out? Since Russia had already swallowed the main part of the crop lands and forced Germans living there back into the cities, the Germans were FORCED to war... see below.

I don't get it. Are you saying the Russia stole land from Germany and that the Jews put themselves in ghettos?

Kiev had a GULag... Babi Yar was most likely it's common burial ground. One and one make two, every time. In 1943, the Germans found Katyn Forest mass graves, and true to form, Russia said the Nazis did it... but the archives now show that Stalin signed the murder order. So, what ELSE has been done by the Communists and blamed on the Nazis? I know some of it... and the research goes on. :cool:

What else was done by the Russians and blamed on the Nazis? We know about Katyn. We've known about that since the end of the war. Are you saying the Russians operated death camps on German occupied soil?

Most of the Judahites lived in the cities--as is true everywhere--in such numbers that they virtually guarantee themselves control of those cities and the politics thereof. The fact is that almost ALL of Russia lived on the Western border... until the GULag's zeks built the outlying towns.

Why can't you say "Jews"? Are you saying that the Jews controlled the policies of German cities? Where do you get the notion that most Russians lived on the Western border?

Forced War: Poland (and all of Eastern Europe), 1939.

Yes, Great Britain and France were forced into war with Germany after a German attack on Poland.

"People, and very many historians conveniently seem to forget that the outbreak of the World War II in 1939 was caused not only by Hitler, but also by Stalin: Soviet Union invading the eastern half of Poland, and Germany invading the western half." The Expulsion Of Germans, By Dr. Alfred de Zayas

What Dr. de Zayas "conveniently" forgets to say is that Germany invaded Poland first. What do you want us to say about this? Can you see anyone here spouting good things about Stalin?

"The Germans were expelled, not just with an absence of over-nice considera- tion, but with the very maximum of brutality." Our Threatened Values, by Victor Gollancz

From where were the Germans "expelled"?

The websites at wintersonnenwende dot com, and hitler dot org have more on these historical issues.

Two sites asking "but, what about all the good things Hitler did?" A friend of mine has a t-shirt like that. It's supposed to be sarcastic.

The first talks at length about the expulsions of Germans from historical German Lands;

Like the Sudetenland were the ethnic Germans were in the minority?

Bottom Line: If you're not willing to be skeptical about what the MSM is force-feeding you, are you actually ABLE to be a skeptic... Seriously?

Bottom Line: If you're not willing to be skeptical about what neo-Nazis are force-feeding you, are you actually ABLE to be a skeptic... Seriously?

You do realize that some people here are historians, engaged in actual research, right? They aren't force fed by the MSM. By the way, none of them fall on your side of the fence.


Research:

Solzhenitsyn says they (Russians) smuggled guns to the communists in Buchenwald camp. Food for thought on how and who was running... at least that one... camp. The Gulags had thieves (aka cannibals) and stoolies and bitches (I'm sorry, that's what Solzhenitsyn says they were called) who actually ran the "zeks" (prisoners). And so, they preyed upon the zeks, just like what happened in Buchenwald.

What does this have to do with anything relating to this thread?

In fact, so much of what Solzhenitsyn writes fills in the gaps... between what was CLAIMED at Nuremberg and what actually WAS happening in Russia's GULag Archipelago. For example, the so-called gas vans... labeled diesel (LOL) by the prosecution... was invented for use in the GULag as early as 1936... the Black Marias revamped for efficiency. Not only Solzhenitsyn points this fact out... it's in a Documentary about the Monster: Stalin, as well.

In case you didn't notice, this thread is about the HOLOCAUST, that is, the systematic murder of European Jewry by Nazis. If you want to talk about Stalin's atrocities, you're welcome to start a new thread.
 
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No, I said the mention of Treblinka was interesting but not conclusive. I thought it was also interesting that the director said that the Jewish children didn't have much gratitude and were highly critical of the clothes and food they were given once they reached England. They were also angry at the British because they weren't allowed to go to Palestine. Interesting, but not conclusive.

It demonstrates that there was at least one reference in print to Treblinka possibly being a transit camp. The important words here are "one" and "possibly." It in no way proves that Treblinka was a transit camp and I did not suggest that it did. I even said why it didn't.

If you believe this tidbit is an attempt to cast doubt on history, it must be more important in your mind than it is in mine.

Uh, Dogzilla, you were the one to bring up the story in the context of being asked how it was technically possible that hoaxing took place. You said apropos your little 'find' that

It's a bit strange that so many children had been in Treblinka what with every Jew being murdered upon arrival and the only eyewitnesses being the one's who escaped after the uprising. But those are the type of stories that were circulating back them.

So yeah, you damn well were trying to cast doubt on history, by pyramiding an out-of-context, vaguely worded reference in a magazine article into something typical ('those are the type of stories') of the 1940s.

Earlier on you said

If you look at what was said about what we now call the holocaust late in the war and immediately after the war, you don't get the sense of a well thought out disinformation campaign being executed by a central command center. You'll see what appears to be random people throwing out sometimes hilarious stories about the depravity of the Nazi invaders.

I responded to this quite some time ago, but you never replied to that post. I think shortly thereafter you stepped on your crank over a Nazi torture method involving genitals.

And as for this

It demonstrates that there was at least one reference in print to Treblinka possibly being a transit camp. The important words here are "one" and "possibly." It in no way proves that Treblinka was a transit camp and I did not suggest that it did. I even said why it didn't.

I'm sorry, but no. Your New Yorker quote-mine demonstrates nothing of the sort. The quote does not allow anyone to say that the children had been at Treblinka II - a point you conceded earlier on. If the children were not at Treblinka II, then no transit. (I doubt they were at Treblinka I, either, btw.)

If the best you can manage to prove 'transit' is a vaguely worded out of context quote like this, then you are even more screwed than you possibly could realise.
 
"Fuss" over gassings while ignoring virtually everything else about the holocaust? Because there's substantial evidence for virtually everything about the holocaust except the gassings, we should just accept that the gassings are true?

Problem is, deniers almost invariably deny everything else about the Holocaust as well, or grossly misrepresent it. Maybe 1 in 100 deniers genuinely accepts the rest of it, and even they tend to try to minimise or relativise what happened.

Revisionism doesn't have a coherent explanation for the whole of the Holocaust. It only has a tedious string of screeds obsessing over gas chambers. Considering that gas chambers claimed less than 50% of the victims, there is a huge problem from the get-go with the gas chamber fixation, because it ignores the copious evidence of mass killing using methods other than gas chambers, occurring before gas chambers were used but also after gas chambers were used.

As I've pointed out to you before, the Jews of Galicia were deported westwards to Belzec but they were also shot on the spot before Belzec was open, while Belzec was open and after Belzec closed at the end of 1942, when the mass graves there were full. 250,000 Jews from Galicia went west to Belzec, about 300,000 were shot in or near their home towns.

It's not difficult to see why there would be more evidence for shootings across up to 139 localities in 17 districts than there might be evidence for 1 camp which closed 18 months before the area was liberated and from which only 2 people are known to have escaped and left testimonies. The Nazis only had to destroy one set of files and one set of graves at Belzec. They had to destroy many more sets of files and many more graves to cover up their shootings in Galicia, and they failed to do so.

But I'll tell you what. If you can offer an explanation of one thing, we can discuss the evidence for Belzec, yet again. Only, however, if you explain this query. It is the entry ticket to any rational discussion of Belzec:

What happened to the 250,000 Jews from Galicia 'resettled' westwards to Belzec?
 
Viva La Difference!

Our latest newcomer is ignorant and incoherent. Quelle surprise.



Er, no.

Time to first lie, five words. Well done!

Ignorance is lack of knowledge. Stupidity is lack of intelligence... and Viva la difference!

Let me help you to acquire some hidden/incoherent knowledge:

"... their exclusive religion fostered a tendency to keep to themselves and stick together, to establish their own communities with their own places of worship, schools, residential quarters and ghettoes (originally self-imposed) in whatever town or country they settled." The 13th Tribe, Arthur Koestler

Arthur Koestler himself is both Jewish and Zionist... in case you are unable to overcome the urge to lob the common man's usual epithet.
 
Ignorance is lack of knowledge. Stupidity is lack of intelligence... and Viva la difference!

Let me help you to acquire some hidden/incoherent knowledge:

"... their exclusive religion fostered a tendency to keep to themselves and stick together, to establish their own communities with their own places of worship, schools, residential quarters and ghettoes (originally self-imposed) in whatever town or country they settled." The 13th Tribe, Arthur Koestler

Arthur Koestler himself is both Jewish and Zionist... in case you are unable to overcome the urge to lob the common man's usual epithet.

Once again, are you asserting that the Jews deported themselves to ghettos? If so, please provide evidence that, for instance, the Warzaw ghetto was self-imposed. Did the Jews build walls around the ghetto out of their own free will? Was it the fault of the Jews that hunger and diseases rampaged through the ghetto? Why do you think the Jews in the Warzaw ghetto staged an uprising?

By the way, genetic research has disproven the main thesis in "the 13th tribe".
 
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More Questions?

I don't get it. Are you saying the Russia stole land from Germany and that the Jews put themselves in ghettos?

***Yes.

What else was done by the Russians and blamed on the Nazis? We know about Katyn. We've known about that since the end of the war. Are you saying the Russians operated death camps on German occupied soil?

1. Yes. "Eye For An Eye" by John Sack.

Why can't you say "Jews"? Are you saying that the Jews controlled the policies of German cities? Where do you get the notion that most Russians lived on the Western border?

2. Judahites is correct. According to Rosa Luxemberg and Hitler's laws, yes. Look at a map, see how huge Russia is, and then find out what Siberia is like...?

Yes, Great Britain and France were forced into war with Germany after a German attack on Poland.

3. :) Forced? You don't know that Poland was pretty darn Communist at the time, right? And even if you did, how much do you know about Communism?

What Dr. de Zayas "conveniently" forgets to say is that Germany invaded Poland first. What do you want us to say about this? Can you see anyone here spouting good things about Stalin?

4. Baloney.

From where were the Germans "expelled"?

5. They've been expelled from Silesia, Poland, Czechoslovakia... Eastern European Lands that used to be theirs before WWI, when they were robbed, straight up.

Two sites asking "but, what about all the good things Hitler did?" A friend of mine has a t-shirt like that. It's supposed to be sarcastic.

6. I forget... do you say where you live? Do you have social programs there, at all? If it's the USA, then Social Security, Unemployment Benefits, taking care of widows and orphans... these are Nazi-Soci things. The rest is about race... and nobody minds that Israel is more and more Hebrew every day, do they? Nor do the Allies mind that Operation Paperclip, etc., happened... and the run-of-the-mill looters didn't mind helping themselves, either. If not for Hitler bowing out of the International Monetary System and getting rid of the debt that was crippling them, there'd have been nothing worth stealing.

Like the Sudetenland were the ethnic Germans were in the minority?

7. What?

Bottom Line: If you're not willing to be skeptical about what neo-Nazis are force-feeding you, are you actually ABLE to be a skeptic... Seriously?

You do realize that some people here are historians, engaged in actual research, right? They aren't force fed by the MSM. By the way, none of them fall on your side of the fence.

8. I'm not impressed, sorry. Actual research depends upon source material... much of which has gone missing.

What does this have to do with anything relating to this thread?

9. Solzhenitsyn tells us that Stalin was doing what the Nazis have been portrayed as doing. I have read a whole bunch of the trial transcripts... I'm pretty glad that I don't live in a place where the victors get to run a Soviet-style show-trial... or do I? After all, a place that's calling itself "skeptical" is proving not to be.

9.a. My point is that the copies of copies of undocumented documents that came out of the Nuremberg Trials--aside from being ludicrous and/or childishly naive--do NOT portray the actions of the cutting-edge machine that was Germany throughout her entire history. What they DO portray is the actions of a country where the intelligence and the intelligentsia have gone missing. Go read some of them. Nonsensical spanking machines, specially-built towns made from-scratch just to be blown into... nothingness. Impossible. And much of it has already been debunked, sorry.

9.b. Nor were the Trials themselves lawful. They lacked the mandated contingent required, towards the end. The Defense was given one copy to be divided amongst the several lawyers, and no time to work. And when/if they were able to defend some small parts, they were systematically dismissed. The confessions from the Nazis themselves were gotten in the same manner as they were gotten in GULag, by means of torture. The parallels are inescapable.

In case you didn't notice, this thread is about the HOLOCAUST, that is, the systematic murder of European Jewry by Nazis. If you want to talk about Stalin's atrocities, you're welcome to start a new thread.

And here's your response, no doubt: :jaw-dropp

I am a skeptic. And this is the issue about which I am MOST skeptical.
 
I don't get it. Are you saying the Russia stole land from Germany and that the Jews put themselves in ghettos?

***Yes.

What land did Russia steal?

Please provide evidence that the Warzaw ghetto was self imposed.

What else was done by the Russians and blamed on the Nazis? We know about Katyn. We've known about that since the end of the war. Are you saying the Russians operated death camps on German occupied soil?

1. Yes. "Eye For An Eye" by John Sack.

You really are saying the Russians operated death camps on German occupied soil, as in, ground held by Nazi Germany? You are expecting us to believe that the Nazis would let their enemies, the Russians, operate death camps on German ground? Just to make sure I've heard you correctly.

Why can't you say "Jews"? Are you saying that the Jews controlled the policies of German cities? Where do you get the notion that most Russians lived on the Western border?

2. Judahites is correct. According to Rosa Luxemberg and Hitler's laws, yes. Look at a map, see how huge Russia is, and then find out what Siberia is like...?

No, Juidahites is not correct if you are referring to Jews. If you are referring to the meaning of the word "Judahites", which is "inhabitants of the ancient kingdom of Judah", I don't see why you think it's relevant in this thread.

Did you know that Russia is more than the Western border and Siberia? There's quite a bit of land in between those. Why don't YOU look at a map?



Yes, Great Britain and France were forced into war with Germany after a German attack on Poland.

3. Forced? You don't know that Poland was pretty darn Communist at the time, right? And even if you did, how much do you know about Communism?

Yes, forced. Britain and France were forced to go to war after Hitler attacked Poland, in order to stop further aggression by the Nazis.

Why does it matter if Poland was communist or not? Here's the correct answer for you: it doesn't. It's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

For the record, Poland was not communist at all when Hitler attacked. Poland was controlled by the Sanacja movement, members of which were exiled permanently when the communists took over after the war, because they were considered "enemies of the state".

What Dr. de Zayas "conveniently" forgets to say is that Germany invaded Poland first. What do you want us to say about this? Can you see anyone here spouting good things about Stalin?
4. Baloney.

Nope.


From where were the Germans "expelled"?

5. They've been expelled from Silesia, Poland, Czechoslovakia... Eastern European Lands that used to be theirs before WWI, when they were robbed, straight up.


Silesia, Poland, Czechoslovakia and Eastern European Lands were not "traditionally German" at all. Depending on how far back you want to go, the lands have belonged to many nations, but in recent history, Silesia and Poland belonged to the Polish Empire and Czechoslovakia and most "Eastern European lands" that did not belong to the Ottoman Empire did belong to the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. Not to Germany.


Two sites asking "but, what about all the good things Hitler did?" A friend of mine has a t-shirt like that. It's supposed to be sarcastic.


6. I forget... do you say where you live?

I didn't, and it doesn't matter.


Do you have social programs there, at all?

Yes, quite a few.

If it's the USA

It isn't.


, then Social Security, Unemployment Benefits, taking care of widows and orphans... these are Nazi-Soci things.

No, they aren't.


The rest is about race... and nobody minds that Israel is more and more Hebrew every day, do they?

What are you talking about? Are you feeling well?


Nor do the Allies mind that Operation Paperclip, etc., happened... and the run-of-the-mill looters didn't mind helping themselves, either.

What does the recruitment of German scientists have to do with the Holocaust?

If not for Hitler bowing out of the International Monetary System and getting rid of the debt that was crippling them, there'd have been nothing worth stealing.

So, you are a Hitler hugger, then?

Like the Sudetenland were the ethnic Germans were in the minority?
7. What?

My bad, I should have said Czechoslovakia as a whole.

Bottom Line: If you're not willing to be skeptical about what neo-Nazis are force-feeding you, are you actually ABLE to be a skeptic... Seriously?

You do realize that some people here are historians, engaged in actual research, right? They aren't force fed by the MSM. By the way, none of them fall on your side of the fence.


8. I'm not impressed, sorry. Actual research depends upon source material... much of which has gone missing.

Nor are we impressed by your feeble attempts to deny history.


What does this have to do with anything relating to this thread?

9. Solzhenitsyn tells us that Stalin was doing what the Nazis have been portrayed as doing. I have read a whole bunch of the trial transcripts... I'm pretty glad that I don't live in a place where the victors get to run a Soviet-style show-trial... or do I? After all, a place that's calling itself "skeptical" is proving not to be.

As I said, you are welcome to start a thread about Stalin's atrocities. This thread is about Nazi atrocities and the denial thereof by certain people.

9.a. My point is that the copies of copies of undocumented documents that came out of the Nuremberg Trials--aside from being ludicrous and/or childishly naive--do NOT portray the actions of the cutting-edge machine that was Germany throughout her entire history. What they DO portray is the actions of a country where the intelligence and the intelligentsia have gone missing. Go read some of them. Nonsensical spanking machines, specially-built towns made from-scratch just to be blown into... nothingness. Impossible. And much of it has already been debunked, sorry.

None of it has been debunked. That you think so is quite sad, actually. That you want to relieve blame from the Nazis for the murder of European Jewry and somehow pin it on the Soviets is laughable. The Soviets did lots of bad things too. Almost as bad as the Nazis. To say that the Nazis didn't do anything is, quite frankly, retarded.


9.b. Nor were the Trials themselves lawful. They lacked the mandated contingent required, towards the end.

Yes they were, and no they didn't.

The Defense was given one copy to be divided amongst the several lawyers, and no time to work.

Lie.


And when/if they were able to defend some small parts, they were systematically dismissed.

Lie.

The confessions from the Nazis themselves were gotten in the same manner as they were gotten in GULag, by means of torture. The parallels are inescapable.

And another lie. Three for three. Not bad.


And here's your response, no doubt: :jaw-dropp

No, here's my response. Take your BS elsewhere, 'cause we're not buying it. Everything you have said has been debunked in this thread. You bring nothing new to the table. Your Nazi apologetics are sickening, as are your many lies.

I am a skeptic.

No you're not. You don't even know what the word means.
 
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Cut out the personal insults, and address the argument rather than attacking the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
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Revisionism ...... has a tedious string of screeds obsessing over gas chambers.

Revisionism doesn't obsess over the hoax gas chambers, if focuses on them. Any murder investigations focuses on first the body and then the murder weapon.

In the case of the holohoax there are no bodies, no mass graves, nothing. Beyond that the Zionists refuse to excavate where according to the hoax there should be mass graves, because of course, they know the hoax is a lie.

So, what's left? The hoax gas chambers. That's why revisionism focuses on them. Any honest investigation would. And it gets better because the hoax gas chambers not only didn't exist, they couldn't have existed. They are preposterous from start to finish. That is why the Zionists show hoax gas chambers at Auschwitz and Majdanek.

Since it's easy to see the hoax perpetrators are pathological liars with regard to the gas chambers, the game is over, and it's not necessary to investigate every baseless claim that makes up the hoax.
 
Revisionism doesn't obsess over the hoax gas chambers, if focuses on them. Any murder investigations focuses on first the body and then the murder weapon.

You do know that "revisionism" doesn't mean what you think it means, right?

In the case of the holohoax there are no bodies, no mass graves, nothing.

Except for the ones we showed you the last time you tried this gambit. Remember that, Saggy? Why did you lie just now? Did you think nobody would remember?

Beyond that the Zionists refuse to excavate where according to the hoax there should be mass graves, because of course, they know the hoax is a lie.

Except for the places that have been excavated, like the last time, remember Saggy?

So, what's left? The hoax gas chambers.

And the mountain of evidence, none of which you have managed to wish away.


That's why revisionism focuses on them. Any honest investigation would.

The "revisionism" you talk about isn't an honest investigation, though. It's the complete opposite.

And it gets better because the hoax gas chambers not only didn't exist, they couldn't have existed.

Lie.

They are preposterous from start to finish. That is why the Zionists show hoax gas chambers at Auschwitz and Majdanek.

We've been through this as well, Saggy? Seriously, do you think that people around here have the memories of gold fishes?

Since it's easy to see the hoax perpetrators are pathological liars with regard to the gas chambers, the game is over, and it's not necessary to investigate every baseless claim that makes up the hoax.

Too bad for you and your ilk that you have made no head way over the last few decades. After the massacre in Norway, people have started looking at right wing extremism again, and realized the threat it poses to society. This means you aren't going to make any headway in the coming decades either, Saggy. It's over. You lost.
 
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