Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[tmd2_1]

Because he had a large, powerful terrorist organization (which has accepted his death, BTW) that they are currently conducting operations against and don't want to tip off, would be my guess.

Because you can't indict people on classified material without making it unclassified, and he was already wanted for a previous bombing. This was explained. In the post you're responding to.



What do you mean "maybe"? I've told you precisely that twice already! National security concerns! Indictment! asdfg;rweoh

It doesn't seem the slightest bit weird to you, he wasn't listed for 9/11 on the list. Besides if all the info is classified...how come you guys know so much about the evidence, to not even consider something else? As you say every bit of evidence points to Bin laden...but yet it's classified.

 

[tmd2_1]

Where was he, exactly? I plugged it into Google Maps, and there are a lot of roads he could've been on "in front of the Pentagon".

Watch the video..he says where he is.

 

[Oystein]

...the comptroller having access to the planes...

Nonsense.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Look he said he was driving his car in front of the pentagon. When the plane hit that is. He said he was there for 15-20 minutes or something like that. That picture according to the photographer was taken about 5 minutes after the crash and at the Navy Annex. Making it impossible for him to be where he said he was, during the interview in the studio. I said all of this already.

Thank you.

Hope this isn't a strawman argument, but I take it someone is saying that he couldn't have been in his car near the Pentagon (well, close enough to have recovered a piece of the wreckage) and then been photographed near the Naval Annex 5 minutes later, correct?

 

[tmd2_1]

Oh that dishonest sophism

There is 100% proof that no commercial Boeing 757 and 767 exist that can be remotely controlled.
Four planes, two 757 and two 767, operated by American Airlines and United Airlines, took off from Boston, Newark and Dulles.
Zero planes arrived at their planned destinations.

What happened?

I / every sane person says: They were hijacked, piloted and crashed by terrorists.
You seem to say: They were remotely controlled and then ... not sure what then. Crashed? Landed elsewhere and swapped? Whatever.

You are wrong, because zero 757/767 commercial aircraft operated by commercial airlines can be equipped with remote control unless you have hundreds or thousands of people in the know: Developers, constructors, testers, installers, maintenance crews, flight crews, airline management, air traffic controllers or those who manipulated the ATC radio talk, etc.

Ridiculous, stupid idea. You can't believe a very some very simple, easy plot, so you invent a huge and complex one. What a dumb move!

A lot of big talk..that article says it all, nothing more to add. It's still strange Boeing won't comment because of national security concern. Odd isn't it.

 

[tmd2_1]

Thank you.

Hope this isn't a strawman argument, but I take it someone is saying that he couldn't have been in his car near the Pentagon (well, close enough to have recovered a piece of the wreckage) and then been photographed near the Naval Annex 5 minutes later, correct?

That's exactly right. It's not just someone said....he said where he was. The official military photographer said this was one of the first one's he took about 5 minutes after the attack. Suspiciously this photograph, is omitted from the DOD official release...but the it is confirmed through the photographer.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

It doesn't seem the slightest bit weird to you, he wasn't listed for 9/11 on the list. Besides if all the info is classified...how come you guys know so much about the evidence, to not even consider something else? As you say every bit of evidence points to Bin laden...but yet it's classified.

tmd, I imagine I could take any major historical event that was investigated and find things that were "the slightest bit weird" to me. In fact, I might be able to find dozens of those "slightly weird" things.

Then I can either attribute those oddities to the fact that no investigation will ever be perfect, or I can decide that, added together, these "slightly weird" things point to some evil conspiracy.

I'm still trying to figure out why you think "weird things" point to a conspiracy.

 

[000063]

No. You said he couldn't have been where he said he was. That means you must have a rough idea of where he was. Either that, or you're talking out of your vuvuzela.

So, that's four times you haven't answered whether theory X or Y is more likely, declaring, instead, that the most likely possibility is theory Z. This does not answer the question, which was limited to X and Y. Or, in other words, The "Mossad" hypothetical vs. the official story. You continued to dodge the choice even after I pointed out you would be outing yourself as an intellectually dishonest sophist.

I suspect you, like lots of conspiracy theorists, have difficulty answering direct questions, or cannot admit the official story is more likely, or both. The funny thing is that if you had said X or Y was more likely, but Z was more likely than both, then you wouldn't look so dishonest as you do dodging the question repeatedly.

 

[000063]

A lot of big talk..that article says it all, nothing more to add. It's still strange Boeing won't comment because of national security concern. Odd isn't it.

It's exactly how they would behave if there actually were some sort of national security concern.

 

[Oystein]

Top notch flying skills, by bad pilots for one.

Nonsense. ****** flying by two of the three that came through (can't judge the fourth, he was forced to abort)

How can I possibly prove that they were remote controlled?

My formatting. Bingo. You can't. Because it's not possible that 757/767 were remote controlled. Just didn't happen. A thousand times easier to just hijack the damned birds and pilot them by hand, the old-fashioned way.

I gave a hell of a case that it could be done

...on craft specially designed for unmanned flight. That excludes 767/757 to 100%.
Conclusion: Could NOT be done.

in fact pretty much was done.

Nonsense.

Showed a likely perp had access to the planes and remote control technology.

Showed your antisemitic bias.
Access to technology <> install technology in someone else's planes.

Also showed the manufacturer of the planes won't give a response, citing national security concerns.

Nonsense.

...
just be open to alternative theories.

Please. Give us one that at least makes internal sense.

If you notice I have never said the official story is false, just that I believe the evidence points to something else.

You have zero evidence. See above (the part I formatted bold and red and large).

Is it that hard to be open to alternative theories.

It is easy to pull **** out of your arse.

 

[Oystein]

I never said I could provide that quote. See my other posts...the article all but says it could be done and how to do it. A likely perp had access, and Boeing won't comment citing national security concern. You do the math.

Technology exists to remote control cars. I am sure you'll even find a Jewish guy with blue prints and access to that technology.

So next time you crash your car, tell your insurance this Jew probably remote controlled your car.
Never mind that YOUR car isn't outfitted with rc tech.
Never mind that you have zero proof.
Let us now how that pans out!

 

[000063]

It doesn't seem the slightest bit weird to you, he wasn't listed for 9/11 on the list.

When I found out, yes, it did. For about half a second, until I finished the rest of the paragraph which explained why.

Incredulity again.

Besides if all the info is classified...how come you guys know so much about the evidence, to not even consider something else? As you say every bit of evidence points to Bin laden...but yet it's classified.

No, the proof is classified, sez the FBI. Evidence is something else. Evidence is indicative, not conclusive, and that's mostly unclassified. Beyond a reasonable doubt, IMO, if you could find an untainted jury.

 

[tmd2_1]

tmd, I imagine I could take any major historical event that was investigated and find things that were "the slightest bit weird" to me. In fact, I might be able to find dozens of those "slightly weird" things.

Then I can either attribute those oddities to the fact that no investigation will ever be perfect, or I can decide that, added together, these "slightly weird" things point to some evil conspiracy.

I'm still trying to figure out why you think "weird things" point to a conspiracy.

This isn't just a weird thing. Think about it...he comes walking in with a piece of evidence...from the biggest crime scene in history. Removing evidence from a crime scene is in fact a crime. Comes into a studio with it...you think the FBI would be all over it. But nothing, not a thing..this guy was never heard from again. Could he have gone on TV just to try to sell a lie? I can't prove it...but it makes some sense

 

[Mr. Skinny]

That's exactly right. It's not just someone said....he said where he was. The official military photographer said this was one of the first one's he took about 5 minutes after the attack. Suspiciously this photograph, is omitted from the DOD official release...but the it is confirmed through the photographer.

OK, thanks.

Now, a few more questions if I might.

1. Why was it impossible for him to have recovered a piece of wreckage and then been at the Navy Annex 3-5 minutes later. Didn't the highway run right between the two buildings? Was he on an off ramp? Entering a parking lot? Please link me to something showing his location, etc.

2. Has anyone ever verified that what he picked up was actually wreckage from the aircraft?

3. When he said he was around the Pentagon for 15-20 minutes, did he mean he was at the Navy Annex across the road?

4. Most importantly, why would this " slightly weird", if true, factoid concern me re: the govt. investigation?

 

[000063]

This isn't just a weird thing. Think about it...he comes walking in with a piece of evidence...from the biggest crime scene in history. Removing evidence from a crime scene is in fact a crime. Comes into a studio with it...you think the FBI would be all over it. But nothing, not a thing..this guy was never heard from again. Could he have gone on TV just to try to sell a lie? I can't prove it...but it makes some sense

Whether he was or wasn't a conman has no bearing on the larger mountain of evidence in favor of the official story. If his story is true, he may have committed a crime. If it's not, he's a fraud. Whoop de doo.

Also, I'm pretty sure the biggest crime scene in history was in New York. The Pentagon was what CSI calls a secondary crime scene, IIRC. Or just another crime scene.

 

[tmd2_1]

Nonsense. ****** flying by two of the three that came through (can't judge the fourth, he was forced to abort)



My formatting. Bingo. You can't. Because it's not possible that 757/767 were remote controlled. Just didn't happen. A thousand times easier to just hijack the damned birds and pilot them by hand, the old-fashioned way.



...on craft specially designed for unmanned flight. That excludes 767/757 to 100%.
Conclusion: Could NOT be done.



Nonsense.



Showed your antisemitic bias.
Access to technology <> install technology in someone else's planes.



Nonsense.



Please. Give us one that at least makes internal sense.



You have zero evidence. See above (the part I formatted bold and red and large).



It is easy to pull **** out of your arse.

You know there's people who would say when someone starts throwing out the antisemite card they are getting desperate. I never made any mention to his religion...I mean the guy was the comptroller....as I said it's all in the article, how it can be done...believe or don't believe. As for the flying skills, check this out...I linked to it before. If you have a problem with it..talk to the Washington Post find out who they talked to in aviation and ask them.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hanjour.html

 

[Oystein]

You people are amazing really, I one person have to prove beyond all doubt...below a level that it can't be proven any further.

Incorrect.
It would be nice for a change if you told a fantasy that is at least not 100% impossible and/or false.

I've proved everything I have said...

You have proved nothing. You even admitted that you don't know a great many things and can't possibly prove R/C.

have said no lies...

Incorrect. Several.

I apologized for coming on to strong about the remote control planes. But painted a very good picture that they almost certainly could be made (the website lays out the blue print)

No. Not 757/767

the comptroller had access to the planes,

Utter nonsense. Scratch that from your head. The comptroller was not running daily flight operations at AA and UA. What a stupid, stupid thing to say!

Boeing gave a interesting statement of not commenting because of national security reasons.

And that proves what, except nothing? Yup: nothing.

All of this means nothing

Finally you get something right.

you still want more. John Gross Richard Gage, Pilots for Truth, etc. flat out lies, but that's ok.

There. Fixed that for you.

Then you have the FBI that say we have no hard evidence against Bin Laden.

Bin Laden didn't hijack planes. 19 terrorists did. Bin Laden didn't train them. Bin Laden didn't do the planning. Bin Laden was merely the project sponsor.

By implication that would mean the tapes are forgeries....but that's all ok

No. The tapes are great evidence, just not hard evidence. Anyone can make a tape on which they claim to be behind terror attacks. OBL could have lied there.

, and I'm the delusional one.

Oh, a second thing you got right within one post! Wow!

Unbelievable really.

Only to you. You started with an Argument from Incredulity ("this plot is to simple and straightforward, I can't believe it would work! Only 20+ persons involved? No way! We need something bizarrely complex, tyying together thousands of conspirators! Yes, thatÄs the way to go, because I, tmd, can't make myself believe otherewise!")

 

[tmd2_1]

OK, thanks.

Now, a few more questions if I might.

1. Why was it impossible for him to have recovered a piece of wreckage and then been at the Navy Annex 3-5 minutes later. Didn't the highway run right between the two buildings? Was he on an off ramp? Entering a parking lot? Please link me to something showing his location, etc.

2. Has anyone ever verified that what he picked up was actually wreckage from the aircraft?

3. When he said he was around the Pentagon for 15-20 minutes, did he mean he was at the Navy Annex across the road?

4. Most importantly, why would this " slightly weird", if true, factoid concern me re: the govt. investigation?

Let me try and answer these.
1. Sure it possible...he said he was outside his car for 15 to minutes I would assume he meant on the road. More importantly he said he was with his girlfriend driving into work. I don't see anyone there that could possibly be his girlfriend.
2. I have no idea..the guy just disappeared...no one has ever been able to find any record of him
3 I took it he meant in the road as I said in part 1.
4. See my previous post I wrote to you.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

This isn't just a weird thing. Think about it...he comes walking in with a piece of evidence...from the biggest crime scene in history. Removing evidence from a crime scene is in fact a crime. Comes into a studio with it...you think the FBI would be all over it. But nothing, not a thing..this guy was never heard from again. Could he have gone on TV just to try to sell a lie? I can't prove it...but it makes some sense

Come on, tmd2_1. Who was there to stop him from picking up a piece of debris from the wreckage moments after it happened? I'd guess no one.

Do you think there were FBI and DoD and Virginia cops making sure no one picked up debris moments after it happened? I suppose they had more urgent issues at the moment.

Geez, debris lands near car. Pick up debris. Drive into Navy Annex. Get photographed at Navy Annex. Take debris to TV channel at 5PM. Say you were at the Pentagon for 20 minutes.

Yep, totally suspicious, slightly weird, and proof solid that there was a conspiracy.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

We can prove the feasibility of remote controlling the aircraft all day. I suppose the real question is what proof can you offer, besides Hanjour being a piss poor pilot, that the plane was actually remote controlled?