Atlanta Klansman not as clever as he thought

[OrangeCatz]

No matter how much you attack the character of the victim, a rape victim is still a rape victim.

A child rapist who is in turn raped is definitely a rape victim. And I would laugh in his face if he tried to get sympathy from me.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

Indeed.

HOWEVER

IF

That rape 'victim' is in prison because he raped a child, a member of his family(!), then I reserve the right to think it's funny, due to the irony of it. In this case, even more so because he's a toothless KKK moron.


anywho - that'll do it for me. Thanks for the lively conversation!

You're perfectly entitled to think that it's funny, just as I'm perfectly entitled to be frustrated with you as a representative of society's opinion at large for thinking it's funny.

 

[PGH]

LOL

KKK Pedophiles....

That's the part where the smile starts to spread across my face when I hear the oh so terrible news about his suffering. Sorry. I don't love my enemies.

I dunno. False convictions bother me.

They bother me very much also. That's what I was saying. I would never wish evil upon anyone wrongly convicted.

No matter how much you attack the character of the victim, a rape victim is still a rape victim.

You can say that. But a rapist getting raped just sounds like karma to me. Make the first one a child rapist and I care about his well being even less. Make him a Klansman child rapist and I will...wow I had to edit out everything that came to my mind because I didn't want to shock anyone. That bad.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

A child rapist who is in turn raped is definitely a rape victim. And I would laugh in his face if he tried to get sympathy from me.

I sincerely hope that you don't think I'm trying to garner sympathy for the man, especially since he hasn't been a victim of rape yet, to anyone's knowledge. My lone and stated stance is that even an incremental acceptance of rape aids a societal indifference toward prison rape in general--it's easier to put it out of mind if you only think of the cases where someone truly vile is being brutalized.

 

[OrangeCatz]

A Laughing Baby, I respect your opinion. You seem very rational. My opinion differs, but I can accept that.

I need to become less confrontational. With the internet, I end up saying things I wouldn't say to someone's face. I should keep that in mind.

Frankly, I can see your point, and kinda sympathize with it too. I rationally feel that all rape should be unacceptable, but I emotionally feel nothing but glee at the thought of a child rapist being raped.

ETA: Just to mention, what I say applies to child rapists, not someone who has merely been convicted of child rape.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

A Laughing Baby, I respect your opinion. You seem very rational. My opinion differs, but I can accept that.

I need to become less confrontational. With the internet, I end up saying things I wouldn't say to someone's face. I should keep that in mind.

Frankly, I can see your point, and kinda sympathize with it too. I rationally feel that all rape should be unacceptable, but I emotionally feel nothing but glee at the thought of a child rapist being raped.

ETA: Just to mention, what I say applies to child rapists, not someone who has merely been convicted of child rape.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from too. I just disagree with it and can see where a lot of society would take it--allow me the indignity of saying it would be a slippery slope, given the right societal attitudes and conditions. I appreciate your politeness through this, and it's good to occasionally be able to disagree with someone on JREF without seeing the sort of response one generally sees on here in disagreements. I understand that I can't change your mind, but I wish I could. I expect you probably feel the same way about me, and I guess we can just leave it at that.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Yes, absolutely he does.

Every person that we as a society choose to force in a confined space, needs to be protected from violent assault and other harm in that space.

Prisons need to be safe; when they're not, we've failed an obligation we have as a society.

When we come to accept as a culture that they are not safe, to the point where being illegally assaulted and harmed in prison is seen as part of the punishment, we have lost a fair bit of our moral compass as a society.

If you think this man deserves to be raped, then get it added to his criminal sentence. Until you do that, he deserves the same treatment and protections under the law as everyone else.

I don't feel one iota of sympathy for this guy.

However....


while I do not care much about what happens to this particular individual, I do care about the fact that him going to jail instantly puts him at risk of rape (though as others have said, the Aryan Brotherhood may prevent that, but who knows, they may make an exception for a child molester).

I strongly agree that I really dislike how prison rape is just something that is both expected and accepted, and mainly is joked about in society rather than addressed as a problem that we should try and fix.

I had an acquaintance once who was a graffiti artist in NYC. He had been arrested once or twice before, and when they caught him doing it again he had heroin on him (not enough to be charged with dealing, just possession).

I'm not saying he shouldn't have been arrested, he knowingly broke the law.

But they sent him to Rikers Island for it (for our non USA friends, Rikers is a prison in New York which is notorious for extensive violence and rape amongst prisoners). This was a 19 year old, skinny white kid. His sentence was a short one for minor crimes, but they sent him to one of the most violent prisons in the United States with some of the most hardened offenders.

He was beaten and gang raped repeatedly. When he got out he just wasn't a person anymore. I don't know ultimately what happened to him. And I don't feel comfortable by saying "Well that kid didn't deserve to be raped but this guy does," because then where do we draw the line?

I agree that this is a failure of society.

 

[Checkmite]

That would be illegal rape. I think the perpetrator should be punished for rape, though I would still find it acceptable if a child rapist was raped.
If he was sentenced to be raped, then I don't think a person should be allowed to commit the rape. I don't find it acceptable to rape someone, but I find it acceptable if a child rapist were raped. A tiny distinction. I don't accept the rape itself, but I accept the suffering of the child rapist.

There were two questions in the portion of the post you quoted just before writing this, and you answered neither of them.

 

[fuelair]

Yes, i think he deserves better than to be raped in prison. I'm not sure how this is a controversial stance.



It's not a matter of what he's done. What he has done is enough to get him removed from society, put in a small box and forgotten about for many years.

The question is what gives us the right to, essentially, sentence someone to be sexually assaulted.

Equal justice for all? It was done to the child, should be done to him. And, because she was an innocent child, doesn't, I am pretty sure, mean he should be treated better, but much worse.

 

[OrangeCatz]

There were two questions in the portion of the post you quoted just before writing this, and you answered neither of them.

How about this then?

No.

No.

 

[Checkmite]

So then the acceptability of rape is based on whether you are aware (or believe) the victim is a child rapist, not the actual fact? If a child rapist is raped, but you're not aware he is a child rapist, you would be fine sending his rapist to prison; but if you are aware a person is a child rapist and he is raped (outside of prison), that is acceptable and you would not want his rapist to be sent to prison?

 

[OrangeCatz]

We certainly should not be convicting and imprisoning individuals for acceptable behavior, wouldn't you agree?

So then the acceptability of rape is based on whether you are aware (or believe) the victim is a child rapist, not the actual fact? If a child rapist is raped, but you're not aware he is a child rapist, you would be fine sending his rapist to prison; but if you are aware a person is a child rapist and he is raped (outside of prison), that is acceptable and you would not want his rapist to be sent to prison?

Well, you kinda got me there. Let me put it this way. I feel rape should be punished, even if I find it acceptable that a child rapist was raped.

So maybe I should answer: Yes, if a person is a child rapist and he is raped (outside of prison), it would be acceptable to me that a person suffers what they dished out, but rape is still a violent crime and should be punished.

 

[dtugg]

Who even said that child rapist rapists shouldn't be punished?

 

[bookitty]

I sincerely hope that you don't think I'm trying to garner sympathy for the man, especially since he hasn't been a victim of rape yet, to anyone's knowledge. My lone and stated stance is that even an incremental acceptance of rape aids a societal indifference toward prison rape in general--it's easier to put it out of mind if you only think of the cases where someone truly vile is being brutalized.

Agreed.

 

[OrangeCatz]

You know, saying I find the rape of a child rapists acceptable is probably worded stronger than I feel.

Let's just say would I find it involuntarily amusing (and I feel nothing is wrong with that) if I heard of a case like that.

 

[leftysergeant]

Well, he always has the option to request solitary confinement.

He should also be allowed a six-foot rope and a hook in the cieling.

He might decide to solve all his problems and some of ours.

 

[Checkmite]

Who even said that child rapist rapists shouldn't be punished?

My point was the dissonance between considering something "acceptable", yet still thinking it deserves punishment - OrangeCatz seems to have understood what it was getting at.

To be fair, I do recognize and respect the irony of the situation we're discussing. But I'm afraid all I see is irony - to me, not everything ironic is funny.

Prison rape is a serious problem. Modern dogma aside, rape and other such violence in prison is not something that is specially reserved for child molesters by any means. They do serve as socially-acceptable punching bags; but everyone from the murderer to the burglar to the drug dealer stands a good chance of being raped in prison. And the reason is that American prisons are some of the most lenient, uncontrolled corrections environments in the world.

I remember a case a couple of years back about a guy who was tried in Thailand for child molestation after a digitally-altered photo of himself working on a victim was "unscrambled", revealing his face. It was a big thing at the time as to whether he would be sentenced in Thailand or the US, and I remember many people being of the opinion that he would be smarter to try and bid for a US sentence. But that's actually wrong - in Thailand, and most other prisons in the world, prisoners get cells. They are let out of their cells to eat and exercise and shower, and then they go back in them. And anybody who tried to rape or attack anybody at dinner or in the shower would get corrected by the guards.

By contrast in the US, in general population the only thing you do in your cell is sleep. For the entire rest of the day, your cell doors are locked open to the "dayroom", where chairs and couches and the television are. You are exposed to the rest of the prisoners constantly and for the most part no guards will be entering the cellblock at all unless somebody's been killed. It is that tepid approach to "corrections" that allows for a prison culture in which rape is a fair expectation.

 

[slingblade]

I'm a survivor of CSA.

I don't want him raped. I want him to live the rest of his hopefully brief natural life-span there, and never see outside again.

 

[Mycroft]

I'm a survivor of CSA.

I'm going to guess that's not Community Supported Agriculture?

 

[slingblade]

I'm going to guess that's not Community Supported Agriculture?

Nope, is not.


But his granddaughter is now a survivor, too.