Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

[ergo]

Second relevant point

Heh.

- he claims he saw one of the towers standing when he looked out the window. However, recently released footage of WTC 7 shows Michael Hess calling out of the broken window to rescuers. The window is on the North face of the building, which means they could not see the towers (nevermind the smoke and dust swirling around) from that window.

AE may be onto something here. Perhaps Hess and Jennings were the same person? Because if Hess were calling out a window on the north side of the building at the moment that video was taken, where on earth could Jennings have been??? Not possibly anywhere else in the building! Let alone glancing out a south window! Certainly not at the moment the video was taken! Or even at any other time! OMG, the implications of this are mind-blowing!

In my opinion Jennings was confused, and incorrect.

Chances are your guesses are wishful thinking. It's better simply to take people's testimony at face value. He knows more about what he witnessed that day than you ever will. You know, just a guess, him being there and all. And you, um, not.

Third, someone posting as Barry Jennings son claimed that he had died of Leukemia. The information, AFAIK is accurate - Jennings did have a brother, Larry, who apparently predeceased him. And the person who wrote this has other info which would be known only to those from Jennings family or close to them.

This may or may not be credible. Either way, it makes no difference to what Jennings said.

 

[Oystein]

...
It's better simply to take people's testimony at face value. He knows more about what he witnessed that day than you ever will. You know, just a guess, him being there and all. And you, um, not. ...

It is generally NOT a smart idea to take witness testimony at face value. It is better to try to corroborate it with more solid kinds of evidence, and take every witness statement that cannot be corroborated with appropriate amounts of salt.

In this case, the claim "He knows more about what he witnessed that day than you ever will" falls flat on its face when we consider that he did not even know the twin towers had collapsed until after he left WTC7! Is it conceivable that he did notice some of the effects of the collapses while he was inside WTC7? You bet, as the building he was in got severly damaged by huge impacts of debris.

So, he noticed the rumbles, the bangs, some of the damage, the dust, the rubble, the obstacles that were created, and was forced to form a working hypothesis of what that meant. But he did not figure out that the towers had collapsed, and that their debris impacted his own building.
I guess it is an easy step from these facts to concluding that his interpretation of the events was erroneous, and another simple step to understanding that his memory of the events was shaped by this erroneous conclusion and thus likewise prone to error.

It is well known that eye witness memory gets altered by the mind after the fact, usually according to particular personal circumstances, such as erroneous interpretation.


Barry jennings didn't lie. He erred.
It's something that happens to billions of eye witnesses every day.

 

[chrismohr]

Your whole series is scripted so how about posting the text?

Clayton,

Right now I'm having technical problems with the last several YouTube videos I will be put ting out and have to keep my focus there. I did design these presentations with video and photo clips in mind, so I have some concern that floating out there without the pix etc. could make it more easily mksunderstood. I'm still considering tho. Ideas anyone?

Clayton, have you watched my video re Barry Jennings?

 

[Edx]

According to ergo's logic then Jennings was caught in a massive explosive blast that didn't cause him or anyone else any blast injuries at all and then 7 hours later the building collapses with no explosions going off at all.

 

[RedIbis]

Hey all,
An anti-Semitic 9/11 truth guy asked me if I was Jewish. How do sincere 9/11 Truth activists feel about the disturbingly high percentage of bona fide antisemites in your camp? I'm not talking about people who oppose Israel's foreign policy or other aspects of that government... I mean people who hate Jews. It bugs me and I wonder if others in the 9/11 Truth movement take action to distance themselves from them, much as a Republican politician would distance himself from a blatant racist.

You heard from one guy on the internet? Where do you get your "high percentage of bona fide antisemites" figures from? Source?

So much for the veneer of civil discourse. It didn't take long for you to adopt the old guilt by association or big tent twoofyism in which anyone who questions 9/11 is now responsible for what some anti-semite says.

This is not civil discourse, Chris, this is the oldest trick in the debunker book.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Your whole series is scripted so how about posting the text?

Clayton,

Right now I'm having technical problems with the last several YouTube videos I will be put ting out and have to keep my focus there. I did design these presentations with video and photo clips in mind, so I have some concern that floating out there without the pix etc. could make it more easily mksunderstood. I'm still considering tho. Ideas anyone?

Clayton, have you watched my video re Barry Jennings?

The one with the THREE witnesses? Yes.

 

[RKOwens4]

Chris, I just watched parts 1 and 3 of your YouTube videos. I also have a series of vids called "9/11 Debunked" but it's obvious that you put way, way more time and effort into yours. I'll definitely be recommending your videos to the truthers who message me all the time telling me, "What about Blueprint for Truth??? When are you going to respond to that?"

Also, I was shocked to see in your original post that you debated Richard Gage for several hours in March of this year, but they refused to release the video. The reason this shocks me so much is because members of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth say all the time in interviews and videos on YouTube, how they've been trying to find a debunker to debate them but so far they haven't been able to find any supporters of the "official story" (as they call it) brave enough to debate them. I knew this was complete BS already because Richard Gage got destroyed in his debate with Mark Roberts and because I personally immediately accepted the invitation of one of their members and engaged in a lengthy, several day long email debate which was posted online (AE911Truth then did a personal attack article about me on their main page and cricising the U.S. State Department because they linked to my videos on their website). So that's two "debunkers" who immediately accepted their debate challenge. But now I hear that you too accepted their debate invitation, and then instead of releasing that video because they were too afraid, they instead claimed that they can't find anyone brave enough to debate them??? The dishonestly of this group is unbelievable. If you're interested in trying to bring public attention to this fact (in hopes of trying to get AE911Truth to release the video of your debate with Gage and to expose what liars they are for claiming that no one is brave enough to debate them), I'd be happy to help. My YouTube videos typically get in the range of tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of views, per video. I'd be happy to make a video allowing you to explain the situation. What also might work would be having you record a video, making your point in your own words, and we can both upload it on our pages since I have like, 4,000 subscribers (with me making it clear who Chris Mohr is and that I'm not him, lol). That's only if you're interested. BTW, my YouTube channel is...

http://www.youtube.com/user/RKOwens4?feature=mhee

 

[chrismohr]

You heard from one guy on the internet? Where do you get your "high percentage of bona fide antisemites" figures from? Source?

So much for the veneer of civil discourse. It didn't take long for you to adopt the old guilt by association or big tent twoofyism in which anyone who questions 9/11 is now responsible for what some anti-semite says.

This is not civil discourse, Chris, this is the oldest trick in the debunker book.

Hi Red Ibis,

Sorry, I didn't intend to do a guilt by association. Every group has its crazy hangers-on: Republicans and Tea Party people have to deal with Klansmen and other racists, for example. Democrats have had to deal with left-wing terrorists at times. I've seen a fair amount of anti-Semitism in the 9/11 Truth movement, enough to make me uncomfortable. I know it isn't by any stretch the dominant paradigm of the movement, but it is there. My question to you is, rather than get mad at me for asking about it, are you mad at the anti-Semites in your midst and how do you think 9/11 Truth people should deal with them?

 

[chrismohr]

Chris, I just watched parts 1 and 3 of your YouTube videos. I also have a series of vids called "9/11 Debunked" but it's obvious that you put way, way more time and effort into yours. I'll definitely be recommending your videos to the truthers who message me all the time telling me, "What about Blueprint for Truth??? When are you going to respond to that?"

Also, I was shocked to see in your original post that you debated Richard Gage for several hours in March of this year, but they refused to release the video. The reason this shocks me so much is because members of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth say all the time in interviews and videos on YouTube, how they've been trying to find a debunker to debate them but so far they haven't been able to find any supporters of the "official story" (as they call it) brave enough to debate them. I knew this was complete BS already because Richard Gage got destroyed in his debate with Mark Roberts and because I personally immediately accepted the invitation of one of their members and engaged in a lengthy, several day long email debate which was posted online (AE911Truth then did a personal attack article about me on their main page and cricising the U.S. State Department because they linked to my videos on their website). So that's two "debunkers" who immediately accepted their debate challenge. But now I hear that you too accepted their debate invitation, and then instead of releasing that video because they were too afraid, they instead claimed that they can't find anyone brave enough to debate them??? The dishonestly of this group is unbelievable. If you're interested in trying to bring public attention to this fact (in hopes of trying to get AE911Truth to release the video of your debate with Gage and to expose what liars they are for claiming that no one is brave enough to debate them), I'd be happy to help. My YouTube videos typically get in the range of tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of views, per video. I'd be happy to make a video allowing you to explain the situation. What also might work would be having you record a video, making your point in your own words, and we can both upload it on our pages since I have like, 4,000 subscribers (with me making it clear who Chris Mohr is and that I'm not him, lol). That's only if you're interested. BTW, my YouTube channel is...

http://www.youtube.com/user/RKOwens4?feature=mhee

Hi RK
Thanks for your offer. Let me finish dealing with the tech problems of getting my last six videos out and ask me again! I may not want to do a video trashing AE911 truth for not releasing their video of my debate with them (you can still at least hear it by googling gage mohr debate mp3 or some such thing). It would have been an investment of thousands of dollars and they didn't think it would help spread their word. OK, so I put out my own YouTube series. No hard feelings, honestly. My YouTube rebuttals are way way more organized and carefully thought out anyway (debates are really a tough format to get your point across in, we both discovered).

 

[Clayton Moore]

Hi Red Ibis,

Sorry, I didn't intend to do a guilt by association. Every group has its crazy hangers-on: Republicans and Tea Party people have to deal with Klansmen and other racists, for example. Democrats have had to deal with left-wing terrorists at times. I've seen a fair amount of anti-Semitism in the 9/11 Truth movement, enough to make me uncomfortable. I know it isn't by any stretch the dominant paradigm of the movement, but it is there. My question to you is, rather than get mad at me for asking about it, are you mad at the anti-Semites in your midst and how do you think 9/11 Truth people should deal with them?

What antisemitism is associated with 9/11 truth?

Thinking there was Israeli and neocon involvement in the instigation, planning, implementation, and cover-up is anti-Semitic?

 

[leftysergeant]

What antisemitism is associated with 9/11 truth?

Thinking there was Israeli and neocon involvement in the instigation, planning, implementation, and cover-up is anti-Semitic?

Of course, it is. It is your generation's equivalent to the Protocols.

Per your reasoning, there is a Jew behind every problem that faces us as a society.

 

[Oz1976]

Of course, it is. It is your generation's equivalent to the Protocols.

Per your reasoning, there is a Jew behind every problem that faces us as a society.

Unfortunately Lefty...more and more I'm getting the feeling Clayton is of your generation, perhaps the generation even before. His name is in reference to the original actor that played the Lone Ranger, and certain posts here and there where he let's a little info slip have lead me to believe he's probably 60+...he refuses to answer those questions though.

Not entirely shocked he wont watch the videos...typical.

 

[RKOwens4]

Hi RK
Thanks for your offer. Let me finish dealing with the tech problems of getting my last six videos out and ask me again! I may not want to do a video trashing AE911 truth for not releasing their video of my debate with them (you can still at least hear it by googling gage mohr debate mp3 or some such thing). It would have been an investment of thousands of dollars and they didn't think it would help spread their word. OK, so I put out my own YouTube series. No hard feelings, honestly. My YouTube rebuttals are way way more organized and carefully thought out anyway (debates are really a tough format to get your point across in, we both discovered).

Yeah it's totally your call, if you have no hard feelings then no big deal. I just hate hearing them say how they can't find anyone brave enough to debate them when people debate them all the time. It's like when someone goes around picking fights and gets his butt kicked repeatedly, and then goes around saying, "Yeah I'm so bad that no one is brave enough to fight me!" Also I don't see why it would cost them anything to release it. They have a YouTube channel which they can upload it on for free. And yeah I know what you mean about it being hard to get your point across in a debate. I have a video of me debating Jason Bermas of Loose Change at Ground Zero and it was almost impossible to respond, with the way he kept changing the subject and then onlookers kept wanting to jump in with their own questions.

 

[000063]

I know. And he conjures up silliness like crush down, crush up. And even draws a picture about it. And the JEM publishes it. It's frightening.

Baseless incredulity? From ergo? Amazing!

Nope. I'm the one who explained that to you.

Where did you explain this?

Yes, you've just described why the smaller, more structurally damaged upper block will be the one to experience the most change.

These are buildings, not "blocks". The corn analogy is an extreme simplification, while the truther obsession on "blocks", presumably Gage's cardboard examples of such (or perhaps gaily-painted wooden ones with letters on the side), is an oversimplification, reducing complex physical interactions to the grossest possible terms.

Sorry Chris Mohr. As far as two of three eyewitnesses changing their story I'd say the two changed their story under duress.

Well, thanks for presenting all that evidence to support your claim, making sure we know it's just more than baseless speculation.

/sarcasm

As for investigating Jennings death since when has the MSM respected a family when the STORY is 9/11 BIG?

The thing about "the MSM" is that it automatically implies the existence of an alternative media. In the real world, fringe news and teh Internets. Why is it that the Truthers, largely 'Net based, are rarely able to muster up actual facts? I Google Jennings, and I find a lot of Truther hot air and very little actual evidence.

Certainly a PI dropping an investigation of the cause of death of a high profile witness like Barry Jennings like a hot potato is 9/11 BIG story in itself.

So no news is now news? And if the implication is that the EBIL GUBMINT is killing off inconvenient people, why didn't Richard Gage's brakes "fail" circa 2006?

Your whole series is scripted so how about posting the text?

So you and other Truthers can quote-mine it and ignore inconvenient points? I don't advise it, ChrisMohr. Just watch the videos, Clay.

AE may be onto something here. Perhaps Hess and Jennings were the same person? Because if Hess were calling out a window on the north side of the building at the moment that video was taken, where on earth could Jennings have been??? Not possibly anywhere else in the building! Let alone glancing out a south window! Certainly not at the moment the video was taken! Or even at any other time! OMG, the implications of this are mind-blowing!

Straw Man.

Chances are your guesses are wishful thinking. It's better simply to take people's testimony at face value.

Unless, of course, they contradict the conspiracy theory, at which point they've "obviously" been fooled or coerced.

He knows more about what he witnessed that day than you ever will. You know, just a guess, him being there and all. And you, um, not.

He knows what he remembers he saw, which is very different from what he actually saw. Confusion is expected in eyewitness testimony, and especially in big, dramatic events like this.

 

[RedIbis]

Hi Red Ibis,

Sorry, I didn't intend to do a guilt by association. Every group has its crazy hangers-on: Republicans and Tea Party people have to deal with Klansmen and other racists, for example. Democrats have had to deal with left-wing terrorists at times. I've seen a fair amount of anti-Semitism in the 9/11 Truth movement, enough to make me uncomfortable. I know it isn't by any stretch the dominant paradigm of the movement, but it is there. My question to you is, rather than get mad at me for asking about it, are you mad at the anti-Semites in your midst and how do you think 9/11 Truth people should deal with them?

Hello Chris,
I'm not mad. I've made this point so many times on this forum that my only response is boredom.

Let me address your specific questions to me: Am I mad at the anti-semites in my midst? There are no anti-semites in "my midst." Being Jewish there are a lot of Jews, as well as non-Jews in my midst. They have a range of opinions and beliefs on a variety of topics. Please disavow yourself of the idea that there is some movement in which questioning the details about 9/11 makes one responsible for the nonsense that someone else spews.

This would be like holding vegetarians responsible for Hitler.

How do I think "9/11 Truth people should deal with anti-semites? What is a 9/11 Truth person? If you are sincere in your desire to engage in civil discourse on the subject of 9/11, you should avoid conflating all skepticism toward the official story under the banner of some Truth Movement. Keep your focus on the details, not on this form of ad hominem, trying to label your opponent in debate.

 

[ergo]

Hi Red Ibis,

Sorry, I didn't intend to do a guilt by association. Every group has its crazy hangers-on: Republicans and Tea Party people have to deal with Klansmen and other racists, for example. Democrats have had to deal with left-wing terrorists at times. I've seen a fair amount of anti-Semitism in the 9/11 Truth movement, enough to make me uncomfortable. I know it isn't by any stretch the dominant paradigm of the movement, but it is there. My question to you is, rather than get mad at me for asking about it, are you mad at the anti-Semites in your midst and how do you think 9/11 Truth people should deal with them?

No, here's what you said, chris. As Red Ibis posted.

There were a few things at the beginning of your participation here that made me realize you weren't being genuine, but this confirms it.

There has never been any data presented on the numbers of anti-semites in the truth movement relative to in the general population, or even the bedunker movement. Spelling it out in crayon for 9/11 bedunkers, this means there are as many anti-semites in their own ranks as there are in 9/11 truth.

It's a red herring. Pathetic, last-ditch effort at distraction when they have run out of facts that support their silly theories.

 

[chrismohr]

I Give Up on the Antisemitism question

Hi all,

The fact that I was personally attacked by an anti-Semite in a private communication freaked me out, as have the anti-Semitic (as opposed to anti-Israel government policy) comments I've seen on 9/11 Truth blogs for years now. I wisely never mentioned any of this in my YouTube videos and stayed 99% on track with specific rebuttals.

I unwisely brought up the antiSemitism question as an earnest question. In years of researching all this I have never once seen an antiSemitic attack coming from people who support the natural collapse theory. I've seen two dozen or so honest to God antiSemitic rants on various "renegade" 9/11 "Truth" sites. I don't have statistics, just experience. I just wanted to know how more sincere and intelligent people in the 9/11 Truth movement deal with this, and I guess I have my answer.

My expression of concern after I was personally attacked by an antiSemite has drawn incredible fire from other 9/11 Truth folks, while the 175 or so reasons I have given so far favoring natural collapse over controlled demolition on the 18 videos I have posted so far have gotten almost no comment from the other side. Look at this thread, it is degenerating into people saying I'm just doing ad hominem attacks, dissing Barry Jennings, etc etc etc.

You want me to stick to the facts and the science? OK. I will. That's 99% of what I've been doing anyway, until I foolishly tried to open up a discussion about this disturbing communication I got.

Chris Mohr

 

[alienentity]

Hi all,

The fact that I was personally attacked by an anti-Semite in a private communication freaked me out, as have the anti-Semitic (as opposed to anti-Israel government policy) comments I've seen on 9/11 Truth blogs for years now. I wisely never mentioned any of this in my YouTube videos and stayed 99% on track with specific rebuttals.

I unwisely brought up the antiSemitism question as an earnest question. In years of researching all this I have never once seen an antiSemitic attack coming from people who support the natural collapse theory. I've seen two dozen or so honest to God antiSemitic rants on various "renegade" 9/11 "Truth" sites. I don't have statistics, just experience. I just wanted to know how more sincere and intelligent people in the 9/11 Truth movement deal with this, and I guess I have my answer.

My expression of concern after I was personally attacked by an antiSemite has drawn incredible fire from other 9/11 Truth folks, while the 175 or so reasons I have given so far favoring natural collapse over controlled demolition on the 18 videos I have posted so far have gotten almost no comment from the other side. Look at this thread, it is degenerating into people saying I'm just doing ad hominem attacks, dissing Barry Jennings, etc etc etc.

You want me to stick to the facts and the science? OK. I will. That's 99% of what I've been doing anyway, until I foolishly tried to open up a discussion about this disturbing communication I got.

Chris Mohr

You're allowed to express yourself Chris, and to even make candid observations even if it might offend a truther or anybody else. But I think the whole antisemitic question is irrelevant to the basic facts of the WTC collapses, so you don't need it.

For what it's worth, while I have a youtube truther guy posting on my channel under the name 'ZionistsRunTheGov' I wouldn't dream in a million years that he could be antisemitic! No way!

 

[Clayton Moore]

chrismohr

Hey all,
An 9/11 truth guy asked me if I was Jewish. How do sincere 9/11 Truth activists feel about the disturbingly high percentage of bona fide antisemites in your camp? I'm not talking about people who oppose Israel's foreign policy or other aspects of that government... I mean people who hate Jews. It bugs me and I wonder if others in the 9/11 Truth movement take action to distance themselves from them, much as a Republican politician would distance himself from a blatant racist.

Hi all,

The fact that I was personally attacked by an anti-Semite in a private communication freaked me out, as have the anti-Semitic (as opposed to anti-Israel government policy) comments I've seen on 9/11 Truth blogs for years now. I wisely never mentioned any of this in my YouTube videos and stayed 99% on track with specific rebuttals.

I unwisely brought up the antiSemitism question as an earnest question. In years of researching all this I have never once seen an antiSemitic attack coming from people who support the natural collapse theory. I've seen two dozen or so honest to God antiSemitic rants on various "renegade" 9/11 "Truth" sites. I don't have statistics, just experience. I just wanted to know how more sincere and intelligent people in the 9/11 Truth movement deal with this, and I guess I have my answer.

My expression of concern after I was personally attacked by an antiSemite has drawn incredible fire from other 9/11 Truth folks, while the 175 or so reasons I have given so far favoring natural collapse over controlled demolition on the 18 videos I have posted so far have gotten almost no comment from the other side. Look at this thread, it is degenerating into people saying I'm just doing ad hominem attacks, dissing Barry Jennings, etc etc etc.

You want me to stick to the facts and the science? OK. I will. That's 99% of what I've been doing anyway, until I foolishly tried to open up a discussion about this disturbing communication I got.

Chris Mohr

You said he asked if you were Jewish. How is that an attack?
Is it now anti-Semitic to ask a person if they are Jewish?

Please post the email.

 

[Mikey T]

chrismohr





You said he asked if you were Jewish. How is that an attack?
Is it now anti-Semitic to ask a person if they are Jewish?

Please post the email.

In the context of a scientific discussion someone asked Chris if he was Jewish. Nothing to see here Clayton, move along.