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How can Dawkins redeem himself?

bookitty said:
I know, right. Because if there's one thing we know about skeptics - it's that they never learn anything or change their mind. Say something out loud one time and that's you for life.
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Not really..


Its pretty easy to convince people you have changed if you actually try and do so.
 
Hmmm, key word here is, elevator - how can a woman escape from a man in a small, sealed space? There is a reason she felt threatened. I'm not taking a side in this matter, but I know what it's like to be assaulted and not be able to escape. Really.
 
bookitty said:
I know, right. Because if there's one thing we know about skeptics - it's that they never learn anything or change their mind. Say something out loud one time and that's you for life.
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Well, I did as vwgub suggested and looked up Rebecca Watson and in the first article:

During the beginning of John’s talk, I ran into Christopher Hitchens. I first met him at TAM3, when following his talk I offered to have his love baby. No, I’m serious.
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and

After Hitchens, I grabbed Jim Underdown, director of CSI-West and mega-cutie. Okay, “mega-cutie” isn’t technically his title, but it’s still true. In case you haven’t figured it out by now, I am enamored with a good 90% of the people I meet at TAM. I first met Jim at TAM3 (or possibly 4) when he showed up at a party in my hotel room.
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Well, okay, maybe she's just acting as some kind of groupie but I don't think what she alleges someone said to her in a lift is any worse than what she says to other people or that she doesn't give out the impression that she wants to do a lot of partying. Maybe she feels that when it comes to famous people there is more of a social licence or maybe the guy who she appears to believe propositioned her wasn't a "mega-cutie".

This has probably already been hashed over much more by people who know more about it so maybe I shouldn't add anymore to this.

It seems like a silly bust-up anyway.
 
MLynn said:
Hmmm, key word here is, elevator - how can a woman escape from a man in a small, sealed space? There is a reason she felt threatened. I'm not taking a side in this matter, but I know what it's like to be assaulted and not be able to escape. Really.
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As I understand the the original story, Rebecca said she felt it was creepy, not that she felt threatened.

I think that's a difference with a distinction.

Do you not? Or, am I alone in seeing it that way?
 
MLynn said:
Hmmm, key word here is, elevator - how can a woman escape from a man in a small, sealed space? There is a reason she felt threatened. I'm not taking a side in this matter, but I know what it's like to be assaulted and not be able to escape. Really.
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Was she assaulted?
 
Darth Rotor said:
As I understand the the original story, Rebecca said she felt it was creepy, not that she felt threatened.

I think that's a difference with a distinction.

Do you not? Or, am I alone in seeing it that way?
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I don't know if for her, creepy = threatened. Only she can say.
 
MLynn said:
Hmmm, key word here is, elevator - how can a woman escape from a man in a small, sealed space? There is a reason she felt threatened. I'm not taking a side in this matter, but I know what it's like to be assaulted and not be able to escape. Really.
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Actually the elevator is irrelevant.. the key word for you is "man in a small, sealed space"..

Which me being a man sort of makes my heart sink that people are so generalized yet claiming to not be taking sides.

I'm sorry for anyone who tries to hurt anyone regardless of their sex. NOTHING should excuse their behavior, but by the same token, you shouldn't expect such behavior just because of 2 every day potential circumstances - a small space and a man..
 
Reminiscent of stories of the left on the social issues front in the '60s where women couldn't get any respect, either.
 
The issue that I'm attempting to get feedback on actually has little, if anything, to do with Rebecca. There's at least one thread on her point of view already.

The data I'm hoping to compile is on what you would want to see Dawkins do next. If you feel he did nothing wrong, then the answer is "Whatever he was doing before." If you think he was insensitive, what would you like to see happen? An apology? A discussion? That sort of thing...
 
bookitty said:
I know, right. Because if there's one thing we know about skeptics - it's that they never learn anything or change their mind. Say something out loud one time and that's you for life.
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Yeah, you said it, Sister.
All the skeptics are alike.
Seen one, seen them all.
Dawkins is the worst.
He is even more alike than the rest!
 
RemieV said:
The issue that I'm attempting to get feedback on actually has little, if anything, to do with Rebecca. There's at least one thread on her point of view already.

The data I'm hoping to compile is on what you would want to see Dawkins do next. If you feel he did nothing wrong, then the answer is "Whatever he was doing before." If you think he was insensitive, what would you like to see happen? An apology? A discussion? That sort of thing...
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I am waiting for his next book to come out.
He is getting old, though.
Happens to all survivors.
 
RemieV said:
The issue that I'm attempting to get feedback on actually has little, if anything, to do with Rebecca. There's at least one thread on her point of view already.

The data I'm hoping to compile is on what you would want to see Dawkins do next. If you feel he did nothing wrong, then the answer is "Whatever he was doing before." If you think he was insensitive, what would you like to see happen? An apology? A discussion? That sort of thing...
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He should say, "on second thoughts maybe I made a dumb remark."

There are gradations of bad bahaviour and something can still be bad even if that something is preferable to, say, what the Nazis did in World War Two.

Oooops! (Just realized what I've done.)

:duck:
 
angrysoba said:
Well, I did as vwgub suggested and looked up Rebecca Watson and in the first article:



and



Well, okay, maybe she's just acting as some kind of groupie but I don't think what she alleges someone said to her in a lift is any worse than what she says to other people or that she doesn't give out the impression that she wants to do a lot of partying. Maybe she feels that when it comes to famous people there is more of a social licence or maybe the guy who she appears to believe propositioned her wasn't a "mega-cutie".

This has probably already been hashed over much more by people who know more about it so maybe I shouldn't add anymore to this.

It seems like a silly bust-up anyway.
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Yeah, that was in 2007. So just like I said, no gaining additional insight, no changing your mind, no learning anything about yourself. Just stick by something you said forever and ever and ever. Skeptics, married to their own opinions.
 
bookitty said:
Yeah, that was in 2007. So just like I said, no gaining additional insight, no changing your mind, no learning anything about yourself. Just stick by something you said forever and ever and ever. Skeptics, married to their own opinions.
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I've no idea. What I do know is that if you do learn and grow from your experiences and decide that certain ideas you had once are no longer tenable - for example changing one's mind on abortion, the death penalty, the legalization of drugs, religion etc...- then it helps to have pointed this out some place so that other people don't become confused when you are suddenly outraged by a stance that another person might hold on said issues that used to be the same as yours.
 
I would say Dawkins should invite her round to discuss matters, but as she'd see this as sexual harrassment, I'm really not sure what to suggest.
 
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