July 4, 1776 - July 4, 2011

bikerdruid said:
:D
i
i really find it interesting that american chrstians have to rationalize their zealous desire to inflict christianity on their nation, buy insisting that your founding fathers were christians, despite the evidence to the contrary. jefferson, at least was not a christian.
their fanatical fixation on america as a 'christian nation' is at the very least deluded.
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They whatever. Past tense. Was.
 
epepke said:
Were you badly frightened by a fact as a child?
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This kind of response always puzzles me.

Essentially devoid of any relevant content and substance and only meant as a personal put-down.

I don't understand people like that.
 
JudeBrando said:
And? So?
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This kind of response always puzzles me.

Essentially devoid of any relevant content and substance and only meant as a personal put-down.

I don't understand people like that.
 
How nice, the posting has devolved from the DoI to "I know you are but what am I" in only two short pages.

Jefferson wept.
 
JudeBrando said:
And? So?
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It shows the treaty of Tripoli which was passed unanimously by the US Senate under direction of one of your Founding Fathers. It includes this phrase:
Treaty of Tripoli said:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
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So I guess in some people's minds the words: "...not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...", actually means: "Totally Christian".
 
JudeBrando said:
The constant and immediate need, with some, to attempt to deny the founders' Christianity with a "firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence" of Deist! Deism! is ridiculous. While their specific tenets of faith varied, these were mostly explicitly and overtly religious and Christian men. Some today do not like that and seek to re-write history more to their pleasure.
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So why did they not specify the judeo/christian creator in the DoI?
 
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JudeBrando said:
The constant and immediate need, with some, to attempt to deny the founders' Christianity with a "firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence" of Deist! Deism! is ridiculous. While their specific tenets of faith varied, these were mostly explicitly and overtly religious and Christian men. Some today do not like that and seek to re-write history more to their pleasure.
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Again, our country is great because it was founded by a group of people versed in the Enlightenment. The Western tradition of importance is the legacy of Athens, not Jerusalem.

The nature of their beliefs must be understood with respect to the time they lived. Jefferson cut all of the miraculous hogwash from the Bible, Washington refused to take communion, in the time period, they were scandalously anti-religious.

But that's all distraction. Even the Founders that were clearly Christian had the foresight to leave that nonsense out of the founding documents. There is no Biblical source for the content of the Declaration and Constitution. The absurd 10 commandments are absent, the god-awful mishmash of ignorant rules in the Old Testament is absent, and nothing Jesus said is codified in our National laws.

Enlightenment philosophy, not iron-age mysticism, is the foundation of our nation.
 
Jude, are you at all familiar with the Jefferson Bible, and if not, why not? There is substantially more to this discussion than what might be mentioned in your bible study group, by your preacher, or media nitwits like Hannity.
 
JudeBrando said:
And? So?
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This is a statement from the US Senate repudiating the idea that the US was founded on Christianity. The timing here is important as it was so close to the founding of the country. It clearly states that the founders (of whom the members of the Senate would have been contemporaries) never intended that the US be a Christian nation.
 
JudeBrando said:
That's quite an emphasis on God in the founding document from the fathers of the nation.
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Actually, considering the times they lived in and the very recent influence of the Puritans, it's remarkably lacking in Christianity.

How different would a DoI look if it was written by modern evangelicals?
 
Brainache said:
It shows the treaty of Tripoli which was passed unanimously by the US Senate under direction of one of your Founding Fathers. It includes this phrase:
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"Your"? My? Yours?
So I guess in some people's minds the words: "...not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...", actually means: "Totally Christian".
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What are you talking about? Who are you arguing with? Me? What do you think you are arguing about with me? Explain to me how you can be so certain and yet so confused and mistaken already?

Resume said:
So why did they not specify the judeo/christian creator in the DoI?
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Did somebody say they were supposed to?
 
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TraneWreck said:
Again, our country is great because it was founded by a group of people versed in the Enlightenment. The Western tradition of importance is the legacy of Athens, not Jerusalem.

The nature of their beliefs must be understood with respect to the time they lived. Jefferson cut all of the miraculous hogwash from the Bible, Washington refused to take communion, in the time period, they were scandalously anti-religious.

But that's all distraction. Even the Founders that were clearly Christian had the foresight to leave that nonsense out of the founding documents. There is no Biblical source for the content of the Declaration and Constitution. The absurd 10 commandments are absent, the god-awful mishmash of ignorant rules in the Old Testament is absent, and nothing Jesus said is codified in our National laws.

Enlightenment philosophy, not iron-age mysticism, is the foundation of our nation.
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"Constant and immediate need to attempt to deny the founders' Christianity" noted.
 
Resume said:
Jude, are you at all familiar with the Jefferson Bible, and if not, why not?
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Yes.
There is substantially more to this discussion
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It's my discussion as I started it. Thanks for participating. Feel free to participate it wherever you want it to go.
than what might be mentioned in your bible study group,
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I don't have a bible study group. What would make you think that I would have a bible study group? Is a bible study group a bad thing to you? What was your purpose with that?
by your preacher,
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I don't have a preacher. Or a rabbi. What would make you say this again?
or media nitwits like Hannity.
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I do not like Hannity. What the hell are you invoking Hannity for?

Resume, what is your point with all this?
 
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Craig4 said:
This is a statement from the US Senate repudiating the idea that the US was founded on Christianity.
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Who said the "US was founded on Christianity?
The timing here is important as it was so close to the founding of the country. It clearly states that the founders (of whom the members of the Senate would have been contemporaries) never intended that the US be a Christian nation.
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What is a "Christian nation"?

And what does this have to do with government?
 
iknownothing said:
Actually, considering the times they lived in and the very recent influence of the Puritans, it's remarkably lacking in Christianity.
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Deliberately, intentionally, by design. Why do so many have such difficulty with this?

They said they were a Christian nation and people making a secular government and then made it as they did.

As if they were really Christians, then the Christian nation government would be some tyrannical Christian Inquisition Theocracy or something.


But I don't expect resolute anti-Christians such as so many of you here to be capable of thanking Christians for the blessings of your nation, but only to condemn them when and where possible. I understand. No sweat. And I really don't care to fight you on behalf of them too very much. C'est la vie. Whatever will be will be.
 
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