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The Oldest Religious Structures & Ancient Aliens?

edge said:
That is some of the estimates, some put it at 10,000 years ago and at that site are many other mysteries.
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Sorry but only a few loons date Tiwanaku as 10,000 years old. The carbon 14 dates and the pottery and other studies are quite clear; the site dates from 0-1000 C.E., (A.D.). I suggest you read a few basic texts about Tiwanaku. I suggest you start with Ancient Tiwanaku, by John Wayne Janusek, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2008.
 
edge said:
This is intresting.


There are other ruins that are under the oceans that I'll cover later.
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Please make sure you cover this one.


UnderwaterPyramid.jpg

It's one of my favourites.
 
Eternal said:
This is completely possible, as is the doctor who story line of them walking around amongst us, but us not remembering ever seeing them. Yet still the average person would dismiss it as unlikely.

The onus is not on the person who doesn't believe, it is on the proposer. I can tell you that fairies live in my garden, unless I provide evidence you should advise me to see a mental health nurse.

I have never come across one piece of evidence for this that can't either be explained, or has been shown to be outright fraud. Therefore I reject the likelihood of it's truth. I have found the same in religion.
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I can't reject it because I have had encounters of the first and second kind possibly the third but that's another story.
I can tell you this that their technology is coupled with gravity and the use of electromagnetic principals and probably more.
Don't form a opinion just yet, I'm only starting.
Daffy says:
Do you know how many galaxies there are and how big the universe is? How did they find us?
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I have a good idea of the size, from what I understand there are a few that are closer than you think.
The question is and like we, if we survive, were do we go when our star is about to die, in other words how many have moved on and like I said magic.
There is no way I can answer that, but then look how young we are, look at what we are doing now compared to a century ago and who has helped us in such a short time?
Think about it, we were hunting mammoths 12,000 years ago and the last ones died off about 8,000 years ago in Alaska.
We know the size of this universe and now are hunting other planets.
 
edge said:
So we don't go off topic in other threads.

Unexplained Structures
There are dozens of sites like this one around the world.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_22284e0a443a7de28.jpg[/qimg]


This is the first one on the list.


Tepe (Turkish for "Potbelly Hill") is a hilltop sanctuary erected on the highest point of an elongated mountain ridge some 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) northeast of the town of Şanlıurfa (formerly Urfa / Edessa) in southeastern Turkey. The site, currently undergoing excavation by German and Turkish archaeologists, was erected by hunter-gatherers in the 9th millennium B.C. 11,000 years ago). Together with Nevalı Çori, it has revolutionized understanding of the Eurasian Neolithic.

Göbekli Tepe is the oldest human-made place of worship yet discovered. Until excavations began, a complex on this scale was not thought possible for a community so ancient. The massive sequence of stratification layers suggests several millennia of activity, perhaps reaching back to the Mesolithic.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_22284e0a449384fc2.jpg[/qimg]








http://www.gobeklitepe.info/who_how_why.html

This also proves that the Hebrews timeline was off and that a flood event happened arourd12,000 years ago like I said in another thread.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_22284e0a44c8a2eea.jpg[/qimg]








The question is how do we walk out of the stone age and build things like this without help, now remember before the flood event, timeline off or not, it is written in many cultures that the Gods came down to earth and it describes them as star people.
The Ancient Alien theorists will say that the angels and god are what the aliens were described as, because they didn't have a name that was as modern as what we have today and no other way of comparing what they witnessed.
Every culture on Earth has a story/myth about the deluge that happened back then and the timelines are about the same and makes the 12,000-year mark more feasible.
This time line is also when 35 species of the mega beasts, mammals, suddenly disappear.

This episode can cover more ground than I can quickly.

Ancient Aliens season 2 episode 8:
Full version

Those don't seem to want to work as imbedded, don't know why, they should?
Anybody?
Here's the link to the full episode this will work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKyO21BBETU
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There is no evidence of aliens, is this really that old, I shall have to see.

Show me the aliens, not more 'the savages could never have done this'.

More than that 11,000 years agom show me teh data that adtes teh structuresm show me teh data that says they did not have agriculture.
 
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Freaking A Edhe there is evidence of agriculture at the site right?

So HOW EXACTLY DID THEY CONCLUDE IT WAS BUILT BY HUNTER GATHERERS?

What exactly is the evidence for this specious claim?

Your imagination or someone elses?
 
Pacal said:
Sorry but only a few loons date Tiwanaku as 10,000 years old. The carbon 14 dates and the pottery and other studies are quite clear; the site dates from 0-1000 C.E., (A.D.). I suggest you read a few basic texts about Tiwanaku. I suggest you start with Ancient Tiwanaku, by John Wayne Janusek, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2008.
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Dude wake up that explains nothing and is the old way of keeping history the same.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, people are changing their minds and many say that history is wrong and will have to be re-written.


I'll leave it here for now and will have to ready another post, have at it.
 
edge said:
I can't reject it because I have had encounters of the first and second kind possibly the third but that's another story.
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It's not another story at all - it's unadulterated balderdash.


edge said:
I can tell you this that their technology is coupled with gravity and the use of electromagnetic principals and probably more.
Don't form a opinion just yet, I'm only starting.
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I think you've said rather more than enough to allow people to form opinions.


edge said:
Daffy says:
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I wouldn't try to get away with that again, if I were you.


edge said:
I have a good idea of the size, from what I understand there are a few that are closer than you think.
The question is and like we, if we survive, were do we go when our star is about to die, in other words how many have moved on and like I said magic.
There is no way I can answer that, but then look how young we are, look at what we are doing now compared to a century ago and who has helped us in such a short time?
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First you need to demonstrate that we have been helped, then you can start to speculate about who it was.


edge said:
Think about it, we were hunting mammoths 12,000 years ago and the last ones died off about 8,000 years ago in Alaska.
We know the size of this universe and now are hunting other planets.
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If they ever start a "non sequitur of the month" award here, you have my nomination.
 
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edge said:
The guys that did the series "Ancient Aliens" did a pretty good job.
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I disagree. If you listen to the actual verbage of the narrator, the majority of sentences are questions and not statements. "Did ancient interstellar travellers come here?" and "Could humans have built this without help?" and "How could this early tribe know about this star?" and so on. The program was as disappointing as I had hoped it wouldn't be. It's actually quite irritating that early humans don't get the credit they deserve for being as smart as they were. Why aliens?

The one guys hair do is pretty wild, reminds me of Einstein.
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I'm sure you'd make his day if he heard that. :rolleyes: He reminded me more of Erich von Daniken (not looks of course ;)).

If you look at the evidence they collected it's not bad.
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They don't show any decent evidence on that show. They show amazing and/or confusing human creations and essentially say, "I can't do that. Can you do that? There's no way somebody figured that out. Must be aliens." Gobekli Tepe is the Great Pyramid of its time. The people who built the complex had knowledge far exceeding what we initially thought they did, but that phenomenon happens often in antiquity.

Here, read an unbiased account of that Gobekli Tepe site. The expert who is helping preserve the site says, "They hadn't yet mastered engineering," when describing the builders of the site. If aliens from another planet really helped early humans, why didn't early humans do a better job?

Ancient alien theories are for people who don't think their ancestors were very smart. Don't worry though, mine were. :D
 
Puma Punku is believed to have once contained a great wharf, and a massive four part structure. Yet all that remains today are megalithic ruins from some cataclysmic event in history. A great earthquake? A comet that came too close to the Earth? A worldwide flood? These are all possible causes to the destruction of the once great structure that is now the ruins of Puma Punku.

Not only is there evidence to support the claim of a cataclysmic flood, but there is even evidence to support the theory that people once lived there before such a flood even occurred. The suspected flood could have happened somewhere around 12,000 years ago, and there is scientific evidence of tools, bones, and other material within flood alluvia, which suggests that a civilized people were there prior to any flood
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Enormous amounts of woo have been written about Tiwanaku. Practically all of it quite risible. Its alleged great age is one such piece of nosense. Ethnohistorical research indicates that the builders of Tiwanaku were the local Aymara Indians, and not some "lost" people or ET.

The damage to the site was largely the result of centuries of pillage of the site for building materials. As a result the site is one of the most damaged of Archaeological sites in the world.

As for a wharf at Puma Punka, that is another fantasy. There is of course no evidence at Tiwanaku of a castrophic flood although this days it is considered that a long term drought c. 900-1100 C.E. (A.D.), played a powerful role in undermining the Tiwanaku state.

Of course the great mythographer of Tiwanaku was Arthur Posnansky who became c. 1900 C.E. (A.D.) utterlly obsessed with Tiwanaku. producing a whole series of books filled with dubious propositions including some bizarre dates. He is the ultimate source of virtually all woo about Tiwanaku and is not taken the slightest bit seriously by Archaeologists.

Another good overview of Tiwanaku is The Tiwanaku Alan L. Kolata, Blackwell, Oxford, 1993.
 
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edge said:
Pacal said:
Sorry but only a few loons date Tiwanaku as 10,000 years old. The carbon 14 dates and the pottery and other studies are quite clear; the site dates from 0-1000 C.E., (A.D.). I suggest you read a few basic texts about Tiwanaku. I suggest you start with Ancient Tiwanaku, by John Wayne Janusek, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 2008.
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Dude wake up that explains nothing and is the old way of keeping history the same.
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Even if this was translated into English it would still fail to make sense.


edge said:
This is just the tip of the iceberg, people are changing their minds and many say that history is wrong and will have to be re-written.
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History is constantly being revised, updated and expanded upon in the light of new discoveries and insights.

That doesn't give people like yourself carte blanche to simply discard everything we know and create your own fantasy version of history, entertaining though that may be.


edge said:
I'll leave it here for now and will have to ready another post, have at it.
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I'm fairly sure that on your return the world will be just as you left it; the history books unedited; our understanding of the past unchanged.

Take your time.
 
edge said:
Dude wake up that explains nothing and is the old way of keeping history the same.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, people are changing their minds and many say that history is wrong and will have to be re-written.


I'll leave it here for now and will have to ready another post, have at it.
Click to expand...

Tip of what iceberg? Masses of evidence indicate that Tiwanaku is NOT 10,000 years old. As for explaining "nothing" it explains that Tiwanaku is not 10,000 years old and dates from the period 0-1000 C.E. (A.D.). The fact is regarding Tiwanaku you are simply regurgitating the old debunked fantasies of Arthur Posnansky.

As for many saying history will have to be changed? Well those people are simply repeating the same tired nostrums that go back to Donnelly and his Atlantis fanatasies. Von Danikan is old hat and over 40 years old.

The fact that many people deeply ignorant of archeology and history are spouting crap is only reason to point out that they are spouting crap.
 
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Edge: There are, repeatedly, claims of the following sort:

1) Some ancient city or religious monument is far older than conventional archaeology says it should be.

No, actually, it's only some individual whack-jobs who assert this to be true.

2) There are ancient structures that could not have been erected except by modern technology.

This smacks of modern hubris: Those ignorant primitives couldn't possibly have done this. Actually, modern experiments have been done showing how monuments such as Stonehenge, for example, can be built using simple technology.
3) The scientists are trying to suppress this new evidence.

4) Sumerian civilization appeared suddenly, with no indication of anything transitional from the neolithic.

This seemed to be true until excavations in the 1980s revealed a whole series of archaeological strata showing a continuum of increasingly complex cultures from a typical neolithic stratum all the way up to the beginnings of Sumerian civilization proper.

Just because something is listed as "unexplained" doesn't mean there isn't any possible explanation for it, and we must instantly jump to either space aliens or God. It simply means that all answers don't immediately present themselves. Like all sciences, archaeology is not static. New data is always coming in.
 
OK, let me see if I got it so far

1. Ancient records mention star people, so that must be aliens
2. Evidence that Aliens were here consists of buildings made of rock
3. Gobekli tepe in Turkey has something in common with Tiwanaku, apart from the cultures that built them and the disparate locations
4. There was a great flood because every culture on earth says there was one in 12,000BCE
5. All the megafauna died out on the same day in 12,000bce presumed drowned, except a few mammoth in Alaska
6. Giorgio A. Tsoukalos is like Einstein ?
7. this is in no way another of Edge's god of the gaps threads like all the others and the gaps bit is definitely not a reference to the OP's knowledge

that about it so far Edge ?
:D
 
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Marduk said:
OK, let me see if I got it so far

1. Ancient records mention star people, so that must be aliens
2. Evidence that Aliens were here consists of buildings made of rock
3. Gobekli tepe in Turkey has something in common with Tiwanaku, apart from the cultures that built them and the disparate locations
4. There was a great flood because every culture on earth says there was one in 12,000BCE
5. All the megafauna died out on the same day in 12,000bce presumed drowned, except a few mammoth in Alaska
6. Giorgio A. Tsoukalos is like Einstein ?
7. this is in no way another of Edge's god of the gaps threads like all the others and the gaps bit is definitely not a reference to the OP's knowledge

that about it so far Edge ?
:D
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^^Flawless Victory. Fatality.
 
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