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Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Sylvan, Yes, that is absolutely true. Hence, why there were still many fire companies still in their houses.
 
C7, would you agree that "they" had no control over where the debris from WTC 1 and 2 ended up or how much damage it did? What if there had been NO damage to WTC 7 and no fires at all? What if it had been totally unscathed? Wouldn't it have been a little awkward to demolish a building that didn't even APPEAR to be having any issues?

Do truthers ever think these things through?
 
Christopher7 said:
Your lack of knowledge of standpipe systems is the problem. It is self evident that the the standpipe systems could be isolated. I found the code but you just hand wave it.
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How much water was "enough", Chris? Just because one heard "a million over X period" doesn't mean it's "enough", especially when you refuse to calculate how much "enough" was. WTC 7 collapsed in less than 12 hours after the initial attack.

Also, what possible reason would the FDNY have for prioritizing an empty building over potentially live survivors and a building with hazardous chemicals and explosives in it?

Also, were they fooled by the conspiracy, are they incompetent, or are they complicit?

Clayton Moore said:
Issues the debunkees avoid like the plague with stumbling double talk.

99 day fires.
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You have never answered what explosives or thermite would cause 99 days worth of fire. All you have is something that "feels wrong", yet you cannot actually link it to a conspiracy theory.

Bush stonewalling the 9/11 investigation.
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He stonewalled the report. The investigation was pretty much over. And he didn't suceed.

If the investigating agencies were in on it, he wouldn't need to stonewall them. If they weren't, that means that several federal agencies, thousands of people who have vowed to protect the public, just sat on evidence of a conspiracy. Even if the government wanted to suppress them, they wouldn't have the ability or manpower to do it for the nine years and change to date, much less the rest of these people's lives. It's that 'context' thing the TM hates.

Disappearance of the 4 tower black boxes.
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In hundreds of tons of debris, after 100s of MPH plane impacts and an hour or so of fire, followed by three more months or fire, yes.

Confiscation of over 70 Pentagon area security videos.
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Most of which, assuming they existed, presumably showed nothing, on account of not actually being pointed at the Pentagon.

Release of 5(?) frame Pentagon area security video.
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Those dastards, releasing evidence. There have been other videoes released as well.

Cheney running war games on, guess what, 9/11.
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You probably don't know this, but the US runs war games all the time. Texas Sharpshooter. The war games weren't even similar to 9/11 as HBs often claim.
 
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What is your issue with the five frame video from the Pentagon?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Issues the debunkees avoid like the plague with stumbling double talk.
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BS!

99 day fires.
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You and others have been asked many times just what this is supposded to indicate as far as suspiciousness goes. It is most certainly NOT a thermitic or other incidiary that is 'burning' for 99 days. Nothing in that type of substance would be able to do so.
What's left? The contents of two 110 storey office structures with several levels of parking garages below them. THAT can burn for weeks.

Bush stonewalling the 9/11 investigation.
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Political expediency sure. I am quite sure he did not want to expose his administration to the now obvious incompetance of its highest members. its been discussed here severa; times

Disappearance of the 4 tower black boxes.
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It has been explained to you many times in the past that these devices are designed to withstand most aircraft crashes. They are NOT designed to survive the collapse of 110 storey office strucres AFTER having already experienced a high speed crash and a fire.

Confiscation of over 70 Pentagon area security videos.
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As has already been explained to you and others rather ad nauseum, that this is first of all the Pentagon and security videos will NOT be released IF they show anything that the Pentagon security people would not want viewed before 9/11/01; many others simply would not show anything of interest in this matter and thus would also not be released (see previous point); and the assumption of the number of videos in question is mostly a giant guess by conspiri-boobs like you.

Release of 5(?) frame Pentagon area security video.
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So its suspicious that only the 5 seconds of this video that include the crash were released? Were you looking to recognize the drivers that went in and out of the parking lot that morning or is it more relevent to have the frames that capture the crash? (the video rate is 1 frame per second , a fact that has been mentioned many times here before)

Cheney running war games on, guess what, 9/11.
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Why do you refer to Cheney running war games? Rumsfeld was the SoD, not Cheney. How many war games get run on a weekly basis? Was this any different in the week before 9/11/01?
Answer No, not really, as has been discussed here many times in the past!
 
Clayton Moore said:
Duh. It was 5 frames.
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You really have no clue how to answer a question do you?

1) The camera in question records ONE frame per SECOND.

2) frames preceeding the 5 frames would contain no relevent information unless you , for some reason, want to know if you can recognize drivers exiting the parking lot. Frames after the impact also would show no relevent information as the event has already taken place.

So again, what issue do you have with this video?

Do try to use more than half a dozen words in your reply Clayton!
 
jaydeehess said:
You really have no clue how to answer a question do you?

1) The camera in question records ONE frame per SECOND.

2) frames preceeding the 5 frames would contain no relevent information unless you , for some reason, want to know if you can recognize drivers exiting the parking lot. Frames after the impact also would show no relevent information as the event has already taken place.

So again, what issue do you have with this video?

Do try to use more than half a dozen words in your reply Clayton!
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5 seconds? Out of over 70 confiscated security videos. Maybe what happened after is what is being hidden.

No matter. The fact that government agents were in place to confiscate all of the over 70 security videos proves foreknowledge that the Pentagon was going to be attacked.
 
Christopher7 said:
Hi jaydeehess. :) Long time no hear from.

We have had this discussion before and you know that:
Hayden did NOT say the building was leaning.
There is no mention of a surveyor much less a statement by one.
No firefighters at the scene said the building was leaning.
NIST did not say the building was leaning.
WTC 7 was NOT leaning.

The building was not in danger of collapsing but that's not the point of this debate.

[FONT=&quot]This debate is about the NIST claim that no water was available to fight the fires in WTC 7




ETA: Of course the damaged area was creaking but the vierendeel action of the perimeter moment frame redistributed the loads.
[/FONT]
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Christopher 7:{bolds mine}
in the WTC 7 report Firehouse magazine is referenced as the source of the quote by Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
"Early on, we saw a bulge in the SW corner between floors 10 and 13, and we put a transit on that, and we were pretty sure that she [WTC 7] was going to collapse."

The report goes on to state that at approx 1:15 pm the Chief in charge of operations at WTC 7 recommended that efforts in WTC 7 be given up and that a group of FDNY Chiefs discussed both the condition of the building and the capabilities of the FDNY to fight the fires in WTC 7. They formed conclusions about these including that no water was "immediatly" available to fight the fires, and that the building was generating loud noises that indicated that the structure was "unstable"
this is referenced to FDNY interviews in the winter of 2004.

pages 301 and 302 on NIST NCSTAR 1-9 Volume 1 (August 2008)

Now you can nitpick all you want but the building was declared unsafe to enter and there was no water immediatly available to fight the fires WERE THE DETERMINATIONS MADE by the Chiefs in charge.

Are you now stating that these Chiefs were in on it, or coerced or threatened, into ordfering men out of WTC 7 in order to allow a building to be brought down by means other than the fires. Such being done in order to what? Save lives? IF, (if,if,if) this is correct it would seem at odds with the complete and utter lack of concern about lives of FDNY, NYPD and office workers who died by the thousands in the two structures that were supposedly orchestrated to come down half a day before WTC 7's demise.
Why save another 20-30 FDNY FFs if you were not concerned with dozens of others?
 
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Clayton Moore said:
5 seconds? Out of over 70 confiscated security videos. Maybe what happened after is what is being hidden.

No matter. The fact that government agents were in place to confiscate all of the over 70 security videos proves foreknowledge that the Pentagon was going to be attacked.
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Next time you're somewhere with lots of security cameras, please count how many are pointing towards the sky and not at a sidewalk or door.
 
Clayton Moore said:
5 seconds? Out of over 70 confiscated security videos. Maybe what happened after is what is being hidden.
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Like what? and when, how long after?

No matter. The fact that government agents were in place to confiscate all of the over 70 security videos proves foreknowledge that the Pentagon was going to be attacked.
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Are you truly that ignorant?

This was a very large and senstive government structure in an area that has more gov't personel than anywhere else in the entire USA.
 
It's like that kid game where you whisper something to the next person and see what it ends up being after it goes around the room. Truthers would now have you believe that every place with a security camera had an FBI agent standing there at 9:15 on 9/11 waiting for the plane to crash and then demanding the video tapes 5 seconds later just to make sure that no one had time to even look at them for incriminating evidence that there was a flyover/missile/little green men. :eye-poppi
 
triforcharity said:
I'm not certain to be honest. I will have to make a call in the AM, because now I am curious.
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I had to go to the hose shop today and I asked the guy. He rolled his eyes and said "it's a *********** nightmare". lol

NYC hydrants use two types. New York Corp and another. Out here we "mostly" use a different thread from those two (I think he said NPT, which is pipe thread) but some towns use the NYC threads.
 
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sylvan8798 said:
It's like that kid game where you whisper something to the next person and see what it ends up being after it goes around the room. Truthers would now have you believe that every place with a security camera had an FBI agent standing there at 9:15 on 9/11 waiting for the plane to crash and then demanding the video tapes 5 seconds later just to make sure that no one had time to even look at them for incriminating evidence that there was a flyover/missile/little green men. :eye-poppi
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Send three and fourpence,we're going to a dance.
 
Clayton Moore said:
No matter. The fact that government agents were in place to confiscate all of the over 70 security videos proves foreknowledge that the Pentagon was going to be attacked.
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How did they assure that none of the many tourists, or locals, or newspeople who are always all over the place in DC didn't get the whole thing on tape and run off to the nearest tv station to get it on the air?
 
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