Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[Animal]

I was planning to put water IN thru those. Stick to the fast food industry.

And that would have accomplished nothing but wasting time. Once again you have gone down a long dead end road only to find a large FAIL sign.

 

[sylvan8798]

Says anyone who can read.
Around 4:45 p.m., a photograph showed fires Floors 7, 8, 9, and 11 near the middle of the north face; Floor 12 was burned out by this time.

Again you are arguing that they should have fought a fire which was putting itself out.

I quite disagree. Leaning is a lot more serious. It means every column in the building is bending to one side.

Umm, no.

I'd tell you to quit while you are ahead, but that ship sailed long ago.

 

[Animal]

This has got to be the biggest nonsense I have ever seen you post. And thats saying something.

Sometimes you just have to give your head a shake over the things troofers make up to fit the story of their religious beliefs regarding the WTC

 

[DGM]

Chris7:
I think we all missed why the FDNY would risk life and limb to save this building. Did you explain this? If so would you mind pointing to where?

 

[excaza]

Failing to put out the two relatively small fires in WTC 7 forced everyone to STOP rescue and just wait 3 hours. How many people died because of that?

C7, how many people died in the collapse of WTC7?

 

[Oystein]

...
Failing to put out the two relatively small fires in WTC 7 forced everyone to STOP rescue and just wait 3 hours. How many people died because of that?

I don't blame the firefighters. I think they were told by the PTB to not fight it. I lived in NY for a while and I know what the real deal is so don't tell me that isn't how it works. Can you spell "Serpico" ?

Oh, so the FDNY are stupid? And because they are stupid, they happily helped to murder 2500+. including hundreds of their own? And all the smart people in the truth movement have not yet managed to wise up at least one of the gullible firemen? After 10 years?

And you found out how, exactly? By being smarter about firefighting than all of the FDNY or what? Or did the right ideology lead you to the light?

 

[Christopher7]

Chris7:
I think we all missed why the FDNY would risk life and limb to save this building. Did you explain this? If so would you mind pointing to where?

They would not have been risking life or limb. The debris damage did NOT destabilize the building and there were only 2 relatively small fires at 1:30 p.m.

BTW, there is no explanation for the fires on floors 7, 8, 9, 11 or 13. They started hours after WTC 1 collapsed.

 

[DGM]

They would not have been risking life or limb. The debris damage did NOT destabilize the building and there were only 2 relatively small fires at 1:30 p.m.

BTW, there is no explanation for the fires on floors 7, 8, 9, 11 or 13. They started hours after WTC 1 collapsed.

Isn't hindsight great? Looking at the building that morning, are you so sure you would have made this call? After losing so many men, I think I would have let it burn.

 

[sylvan8798]

They would not have been risking life or limb. The debris damage did NOT destabilize the building

This is your opinion, and one that is not shared by everyone.

 

[excaza]

I'm still waiting on an answer on how many people died in the collapse of WTC7

 

[NoahFence]

Christopher7:

Failing to put out the two relatively small fires in WTC 7

Christopher7:

Around 4:45 p.m., a photograph showed fires Floors 7, 8, 9, and 11 near the middle of the north face;

Self-Contradict much?

Christopher7:

no explanation for the fires on floors 7, 8, 9, 11 or 13.

Self-Self-Contradict much?

 

[triforcharity]

Isolate the damaged area by shutting of riser 1.

So, you're going to endanger ANOTHER firefighter? I am thankful you're a carpenter....allegedly.

The report just says the risers are in janitors closets and wet columns and does not show which riser supplied what sprinklers so the issue is in doubt.

Correct. So, you're going to endanger firefighters' lives, on a completly unknown assumption?

As to the other issue about water availability. Here is just a partial list. See NCSTAR 1-8 pg 195 - 234 for the complete list. There was no shortage of water to fight the fires in WTC 7.

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 205 [pdf pg 259]
9:10 10-84 Engine 240, (At staging area West and Albany Streets when WTC 2 collapsed, stretch hoselines, relay water from Marine 1, extinguished fire at 90 West Street.)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 205 [pdf pg 259]
9:17 Engine 286/10 (initially out of service, back in service at 0917, relocated to E-10, arrived at WTC 1 when it collapsed, relayed water from Marine 1, fought fires from upper floors of 85 West street to 90 West street)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 212 [pdf pg 266]
9:27 Engine 311 (stretches lines from Marine 1 to 85 West Street, from inside of 85 West Street extinguishes fires on roof of 90 west Street)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 216 [pdf pg 270]
9:40 Engine 162 (post collapse operations WTC 1 and WTC 2,operations at WTC 7, hydrant at Church and Vesey Streets, stretched line to WTC 7)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 217 [pdf pg 271]
9:41 Engine 219 (post collapse operations, established water supply at West and Liberty Streets, stretched hose lines and extinguished ground level fires)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 217 [pdf pg 271]
9:43:04 10-84 Engine 220, (Command post West and Liberty Streets, approaching WTC 2 at collapse, extinguish fire on 9th floor of Gateway Plaza, assisted with water relay from Marine 1 to Vesey and West streets)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 222 [pdf pg 276]
9:55 Engine 246/244 (post collapse operations 5 WTC, hydrant hookup on Broadway and Church Streets, water relay to E 503, operated hose line on street level fires at Church and Liberty Streets)
Engine 284/207 (post collapse operations, hose line stretch from Marine 1 to Vesey Street)

9:59 a.m. WTC 2 collapsed

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 223 [pdf pg 277]
9:59:51 Engine 271/6 (left Command Post at West and Vesey Streets when WTC 1 collapsed, supplied water to standpipe Siamese at Verizon Building, extinguished fires around Verizon bldg.)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 224 [pdf pg 278]
10:06 Engine 160 (post collapse operations, supplied water to Tower Ladders operation on WTC 7

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 224 [pdf pg 278]
10:06 Ladder 78 (post collapse operations, Command Post at Broadway and Vesey Streets, extinguish street level fires on Broadway, supply water to Tower Ladder 15 on Liberty Street)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 225 [pdf pg 279]
10:07:39 10-84 Engine 284, (post collapse operations, hose line stretch from Marine 1 to Vesey street)


NCSTAR 1-8 pg 226 [pdf pg 280]
10:12: Engine 518 (post collapse operations, stretched hose lines and operated in WTC 7)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 226 [pdf pg 280]
10:15 Engine 236/15 (responding to scene when WTC 1 collapse, stretched handlines from building standpipes and extinguished street level fires)

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 228 [pdf pg 282]
10:24 Engine 247 (Command Post at Broadway and Vesey Streets, post collapse operations, hydrant hookup and supply to hoselines to Tower Ladders)
Engine 318/279 (post collapse operations, Staging area at West and Chambers Streets, hose stretch from Marine 1 to Vesey street)

10:29 a.m. WTC 1 collapse

NCSTAR 1-8 pg 228 [pdf pg 282]
10:30:08 10-84 , Engine 328/E 279 (post collapse operations, Staging area at West and Chambers Streets, hose stretch from Marine 1 to Vesey Street)

[FONT=&quot]NCSTAR 1-8 pg 229 [pdf pg 283]
10:38:32 10-84 , Engine 309 /E33, (reported to Command Post at West and Liberty streets, stretched 3 ½ inch hoselines from command post to Marine Companies at pier, stretched supply lines from Marine 2 to E 209 E 279, stretched supply lines to manifolds and Tower Ladders, searched collapse area)

[/FONT]

Hey cool, lots of different fire companies. Did you notice the one common thing about ALL of them?

(They were DOING something. If they were IDLE, and could hae been used for something, it would have said "Staging at ________ location". None of them appear to be just hanging out. )

Maybe you should stick to 2x4's and 16d nails. Firefighting and fire department operations don't seem to be your thing.

 

[triforcharity]

They were not short on resources. Everyone came from all five boroughs and Jersey. Read the list of calls on pages 195 - 234 of NCSTAR 1-8,

So, you dont consider that losing 343 men and 98 different vehicles destroyed as being short on resources? What utter foolishness.

Did you forget that FDNY still had to man firehouses throughout the city? It's kinda against the law to leave the entire city unprotected.

Again. Read 1-8. They had hydrant pressure all around just a block away and they were running lines to Marine 1 as early as 9:10 a.m.

Awesome. What good does that do in 7WTC when A-it wasn't on fire at 9:10am, and B-They still had water pressure in the city water system? Why would they be fighting a fire in 7WTC that WASN'T THERE???

 

[NoahFence]

(They were DOING something. If they were IDLE, and could hae been used for something, it would have said "Staging at ________ location". None of them appear to be just hanging out. )

...which is why I asked....

Do you have photographs or video of firefighters standing there with their hands in their pockets, with nothing to do?

Which he ignores. Don't these people realize that with every ignore comes confirmation of their stupidity?

 

[DGM]

One obvious flaw in Chris7's plan is, How would the fire department know what was good and what was damaged in the stand-pipe system? They could spend hours turning valves and screwing around. Chris has the advantage of hindsight, the FDNY did not.

 

[Animal]

They would not have been risking life or limb. The debris damage did NOT destabilize the building and there were only 2 relatively small fires at 1:30 p.m.

BTW, there is no explanation for the fires on floors 7, 8, 9, 11 or 13. They started hours after WTC 1 collapsed.

Liar,
NIST NCSTAR 1-9, WTC Investigation Page 300
At approximately 1:00 p.m., an OEM staff member, a FDNY Deputy Chief, and a FDNY Battalion Chief entered WTC 7 to further evaluate conditions.21 The OEM staff member reported that they entered WTC 7 through the door near the southeast corner on West Broadway and proceeded up the B stairway on the east side. They stopped at the 3rt floor level. The atrium was filled with dust but had no significant debris. As they observed the area, they heard the building creaking. Debris was piled up on the Vesey Street side between Columns 17 and 22. They checked the 4th and 5* floors and did not see much damage from their viewing location. At the 5* floor, they moved to the A stairway and proceeded up. On the 8* or 9* floor, one of the group said he saw two elevator cars ejected from their shafts and in the hallway. Looking past the elevators, they could see a gaping hole in the south face from around the 6th to the 9tt floors. They could see one floor below and two to three floors above that location. A lot of the core walls were destroyed, and one individual reported that he saw columns hanging from the floor above. They did not observe any fires at this time on the 8* floor or 9th floor, but the interviewee reported that they could hear fires burning well above where they were standing. Also, they continued to hear creaking noises in the building.21 As the FDNY Officers continued their inspection of WTC 7, they heard a loud noise, and a Chief decided that they should evacuate the building.18 They also met a Deputy Chief who had just returned from inside the building, and he reported that he had conducted an inspection up to the 7* or 8* floor.23 He indicated that the stairway he was in was filling with smoke and that there was a lot of fire inside the building. When a Chief Officer got to Barclay Street and West Broadway, numerous firefighters and officers were exiting WTC 7. These firefighters indicated that several blocks needed to be cleared around WTC 7 because they thought that the building was going to collapse

 

[funk de fino]

Says anyone who can read.
Around 4:45 p.m., a photograph showed fires Floors 7, 8, 9, and 11 near the middle of the north face; Floor 12 was burned out by this time.

Yet they have a photo that shows otherwise. You keep ignoring it.

What does plus or minus mean?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Yes, we never give straightforward, simple explanations of these things, do we?



Fires need oxygen to burn. Underground fires need air from the surface, that can only get in slowly. If the oxygen can only get in slowly, then the fires burn slowly.



He didn't stonewall the investigation. He stonewalled against allowing a group of politicians to look at the results of the investigation and decide what went wrong. This was because, most likely, he thought he'd be crucified for screwing up so badly.



Crushed under tens of thousands of tons of tons of rubble, then cooked for 99 days in those fires you mentioned. Some liar made up a fairy story about finding them, which you swallowed hook, line and sinker even though a twelve-year-old can see that it didn't make sense.



This was by the people doing the investigation that you seem to think didn't start for over a year. They took away the videos so they could watch them and find out what happened. That's what people do in an investigation.



Doesn't even make sense. If you mean the impact video, they released the frames that showed the impact. The rest was a bit boring because nothing much happens.



Cheney wasn't running them, that's just a lie conspiracy theorists like to tell. And armed forces run war games all the time when they're not busy with actual wars; they don't have a lot else to do but training and exercises.

But all my answers are such stumbling double talk, who can tell what I really mean?

Dave

The rest was a bit boring because nothing much happens.

So much for your credibility.

 

[NoahFence]

What grade are you going in?

 

[sylvan8798]

Did you forget that FDNY still had to man firehouses throughout the city? It's kinda against the law to leave the entire city unprotected.

Not to mention that during that time period no one knew whether the attack was actually over or if there would be more.

I don't know what kinds of decisions were made in an effort not to have the entire first responder/firefighting contingent trapped in lower Manhattan with the possibility that there were more planes or other types of attacks coming in, but one hopes someone was keeping the grim possibilities in mind