Which God or Gods do you believe in and why not the other ones?

[punshhh]

Interesting. Any chance youd like to expand upon this, perhaps in another thread?

One could make the case that a deistic god is *possible* Id imagine, but you have evidence that a theistic god is more likely than not? Coupled with this, you claim this is a logic based position and not one of belief/faith?

These are big claims. If it is true, you should be able to show others and have them agree with you. Care to spend the time and start another thread?

thanks

I have recently gone over this at length in the thread;

"What We Believe But Cannot Prove"

Rather than begin another thread perhaps we could discuss this there.

I am not claiming a logic based position, rather that from my experience and study, naturally occurring intelligent creators are naturally a part of nature, for which there is evidence, ie humans.

 

[devnull]

I am not claiming a logic based position, rather that from my experience and study, naturally occurring intelligent creators are naturally a part of nature, for which there is evidence, ie humans.

Oh, that old chestnut. Youll forgive me if I pass

 

[Paul Bethke]

Do you think you are known as such a man?

Most definitely without a shadow of a doubt in all integrity in absolute honesty.
And yourself, how do you measure up?

 

[dafydd]

I have recently gone over this at length in the thread;

"What We Believe But Cannot Prove"

Rather than begin another thread perhaps we could discuss this there.

I am not claiming a logic based position, rather that from my experience and study, naturally occurring intelligent creators are naturally a part of nature, for which there is evidence, ie humans.

Sometimes I get the strangest feeling of deja vu........

 

[Kensington Bailey]

I believe Mammon exists, though I tend to limit my worship. The best temples are in Vegas and Dubai.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

I don't hold a belief, I regard the principle of intelligent creators as a likely scenario.

So if you hold it as a likely scenario, it means you're open both to the possibility that a Creator may exist, as much as the possibility that a Creator may not exist, right?

 

[Weak Kitten]

I'm not notable enough around here to be mentioned by name yet?

Ok Avalon, shoot! Tell us why you believe in the deity you believe in and not in any of the may others throughout time and the world?

As to Paul's response I find it interesting. However you are wrong in saying that other deities or pantheons have not claimed exclusivity. Many have. And all religions have basic laws just like Christianity/Judaism. Actually, many of the old testament dietary and behavioral laws were in reaction to the laws of other religions in the Middle East.

Please Paul, can you explain why the laws of the religion you chose are better than the laws of other religions?

A feeling of peace and happiness seems to be something that is claimed by any follower of an organized religion (and many disorganized religions as well). There is not way to tell if the peace felt by a Christian is any more than the peace felt by a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Hindu.

Paul, how do you know that your peace is better than that of other religions' believers?

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

There are not many who claim what Yahweh claims.
He claims he is the only God, and all other gods are the imaginations of men.
So in a sense there is a challenge for all other gods to prove their superiority.

Yyyyeeahhh pretty much all other Gods claim the same thing, that they are the only and true ones, so the same challenge is upon your God. So... how has your God proven superiority over all the others?

There cannot be more than one God, who created all things; because this is the principal claim of all deities—is it not?

No, it isn't. Some Religions are more "open minded" about this subject and don't claim an exclusivity clause over a specific God. Other Religions are like yours, in which they claim "their" God is the one true God and all the other ones are fake. Again, in what way has your God proven to be more real than the other ones? Surely you've got something better than "because my God says he's the real one", since as I told you before, all the other Gods are claiming the same thing.

The commands of Yahweh are unique to him—the keeping of his commands brings about a sense of joy and peace; there are no stringent rituals that one must follow in order to find this peace; other than telling the truth and being honest.

This same thing could be said about other religions. A new "shopper", looking for a Religion to cling to blindly, would have an available market of thousands of different options from Religions that claim the exact same thing. Yahweh's religion doesn't hold any particular uniqueness in this regard.

 

[Paul Bethke]

Yyyyeeahhh pretty much all other Gods claim the same thing, that they are the only and true ones, so the same challenge is upon your God. So... how has your God proven superiority over all the others?

Sir, it not the gods who claim anything; it is rather the people who claim their god is superior to all other gods.

So when I claim that it is stated, that the spokes people for Yahweh claim that Yahweh is the only God—then it has to be proved.

We claim that Yahweh created the whole of creation in six days—it is then expected that a part of creation can be used to demonstrate this; example given—stop the sun.

But let me not go there; this has taken up more than what you originally asked.

 

[Paul Bethke]

Ok Avalon, shoot! Tell us why you believe in the deity you believe in and not in any of the may others throughout time and the world?

As to Paul's response I find it interesting. However you are wrong in saying that other deities or pantheons have not claimed exclusivity. Many have. And all religions have basic laws just like Christianity/Judaism. Actually, many of the old testament dietary and behavioral laws were in reaction to the laws of other religions in the Middle East.
Please Paul, can you explain why the laws of the religion you chose are better than the laws of other religions?
A feeling of peace and happiness seems to be something that is claimed by any follower of an organized religion (and many disorganized religions as well). There is not way to tell if the peace felt by a Christian is any more than the peace felt by a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Hindu.

Paul, how do you know that your peace is better than that of other religions' believers?

Depends what you consider peace to be—I have observed how many religions practice their rituals in order to obtain this peace.
This peace is not absent from conflict; it is in the midst of conflict, that this peace is experienced.

Laws must be compared; there should not be a great difference in how we treat each other.
It is how we establish this utopia that all seek—then there are those who find that a utopia will not serve their purpose.

The Middle East, Buddhist or a Muslim or a Hindu as you say are not experiencing any peace at the moment—more of a conflict situation.

 

[punshhh]

So if you hold it as a likely scenario, it means you're open both to the possibility that a Creator may exist, as much as the possibility that a Creator may not exist, right?

Yes and most other things besides.

Also that many things deemed not to exist which may actually exist.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Sir, it not the gods who claim anything; it is rather the people who claim their god is superior to all other gods.

So when I claim that it is stated, that the spokes people for Yahweh claim that Yahweh is the only God—then it has to be proved.

Sir, do you not notice the irony?

You are people too, and you are claiming that Yahweh is the only God.

So same exact thing. A bunch of people claim that Yahweh is the only God.
Until you actually show me Yahweh himself saying he is the only true God (and preferably doing some supernatural feat that only a God could do), you're doing the same thing that other religious people are doing, which is, speaking for their imaginary God, as if that was enough proof that they exist.

In case you still can't see it, I'll bold the relevant part for you again:

We claim that Yahweh created the whole of creation in six days—it is then expected that a part of creation can be used to demonstrate this; example given—stop the sun.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Yes and most other things besides.

Also that many things deemed not to exist which may actually exist.

Fair enough, but in that case I think you're more of an agnostic than a theist, as you do not hold actual belief in a deity, but rather you believe in the possibility but you're open to there not being one.

 

[Mashuna]

Most definitely without a shadow of a doubt in all integrity in absolute honesty.

I assume you mean in person, as you don't behave in that manner on the forums here.

And yourself, how do you measure up?

Generally honest, within the bounds of politeness.

 

[Mudcat]

Didn't Paul Bethke retire from the boards recently? Why the heck are they still posting?

 

[Paul Bethke]

Sir, do you not notice the irony?

You are people too, and you are claiming that Yahweh is the only God.

So same exact thing. A bunch of people claim that Yahweh is the only God.
Until you actually show me Yahweh himself saying he is the only true God (and preferably doing some supernatural feat that only a God could do), you're doing the same thing that other religious people are doing, which is, speaking for their imaginary God, as if that was enough proof that they exist.

In case you still can't see it, I'll bold the relevant part for you again:

So we will have to leave it at this point until as you say, I furnish you with enough evidence to prove that I speak for Yahweh.

Until then I will have to as I have said; abstain from posting and repeating what I have claimed for near on a decade now.

So thank you for affording me the opportunity to state what I have so often claimed.

 

[Paul Bethke]

Didn't Paul Bethke retire from the boards recently? Why the heck are they still posting?

Just popped in to say—hello.

 

[punshhh]

Fair enough, but in that case I think you're more of an agnostic than a theist, as you do not hold actual belief in a deity, but rather you believe in the possibility but you're open to there not being one.

Yes, is there a term for an agnostic theist? I wonder.

I would also be interested to learn how these believers came to believe.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Yes, is there a term for an agnostic theist? I wonder.

I would also be interested to learn how these believers came to believe.

There is, actually. "Marin County Housewife." You kinda have to live in the Bay Area to get the joke, it's really obscure. /hipster

It's an interesting mix: too liberal to agree with the church they were raised on, too much integrity to just take a spin on Pascal's Roulette, but too insecure or gullible to skeptically reject religion entirely. What they're left with is the vague feeling that there must be something out there, but none of the available theological implementations really fit.

Then there's agnostic deist, which is really just a Christian with the serial numbers filed off for the purpose of arguing for a "Creator" in evolution threads without catching flak for supporting proselytizing in schools.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

So we will have to leave it at this point until as you say, I furnish you with enough evidence to prove that I speak for Yahweh.

Right. But since it appears you are never going to provide me with that evidence, how about we stick to the topic of this thread? Which is you admitting that you do not have anything other than your personal preference for that God, for you to assert that he is the only true God and all the other ones are fake.

Until then I will have to as I have said; abstain from posting and repeating what I have claimed for near on a decade now.

Does this mean you have finally understood the phrase "Just because you keep repeating it, it doesn't make it anymore true"?

So thank you for affording me the opportunity to state what I have so often claimed.

That's not the purpose of this thread. The purpose of this thread is for you to explain how you construct the logic by which you operate, or then again, to at least admit there is no such logic, and that you're just sticking to a God you prefer, but you admit you have no evidence of any kind to demonstrate that the God you chose is the true one.

And by the way, if this attack on your beliefs offends you, if you are unwilling to address this issue in a honest way, if you're not willing to question your own beliefs, you are free to walk away. But don't waste my time with rhetorics and circular logic. That don't work with me.