Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[Oystein]

But math is hard...

It's only basic calculation operations: multiplication and division! I learned that with decimal numbers in 4th grade, I think, or maybe 3rd.
I'll even allow the use of a pocket calculator!

The real problem for Clayton will be finding facts. Something he struggles with always.

 

[Oystein]

Ahh what the heck - here is my calculation - rough draft:

- Combustibles per quare meter: 100kg/m² (that is a very low value, compared to most office buildings)
- Office space area: 400,000m²-> Total mass of combustibles: 40,000,000kg
- Average energy density of office combustibles: 10MJ/kg (again, that is a very low estimate; paper has more, plastics have much more)
-> Total energy of combustibles: 400,000,000MJ.
- This is the energy found in roughly 2.5 million gallons of fuel, or 100,000 tons of TNT
- Seconds in 99 days are 99*24*60*60 = 8,553,600s
-> Power of fires in 99 days: 47MW

47MW is the average net electrical power consumption of a city of more than 40,000 people in Germany (including housholds, industry and public sector).
My car has a power output of 90kW or 0.09MW. So the fires had the power of 500 times my car.
One block of an average nuclear power plant has an output of 1000MW, or 21 times the power of that debris fire.
The largest onshore wind turbines have a power of 1.5 MW. You need about 30 of these to equal the power of GZ.

Conclusion: There was plenty of combustible energy to be released by fires for 99 days.

 

[dafydd]

But math is hard...

I have never seen a truther here who can do math. Most of them have a problem with 1+1=2.

 

[BaaBaa]

I am rarely wrong.

Stundie.

 

[King of the Americas]

The President is ALWAYS a potential target, 24/7. That's why he has security around him at all times.
When the country is attacked by terrorists, it goes without saying that the President's guards get nervous. Political leaders are ALWAYS prime targets of terrorists everywhere. This is not speculation, this is a well established fact of life.

Agreed.

But, WHILE we are under actual attack, that level of danger would be increased, right?

"...Mr. President, we are under attack..."

So, why would the BEST course of action be to read a book to children???

That is just freaking nuts to me. Defending those actions makes zero sense.

---

That said, this thread generated 3 pages of responses, since I was last here. I'd like to apologize for not getting to everyone's retorts. I would however, like to thank all of your for answering my questions. With that I'll take my leave, as this is not a topic I will ever feel fully informed on, and one I wish not to pursue.

 

[Animal]

Agreed.

But, WHILE we are under actual attack, that level of danger would be increased, right?

"...Mr. President, we are under attack..."

So, why would the BEST course of action be to read a book to children???

That is just freaking nuts to me.

Argument from ignorance noted.

Defending those actions makes zero sense.

More argument from ignorance.

---

That said, this thread generated 3 pages of responses, since I was last here. I'd like to apologize for not getting to everyone's retorts. I would however, like to thank all of your for answering my questions. With that I'll take my leave, as this is not a topic I will ever feel fully informed on, and one I wish not to pursue.

A troofer running away in the middle of a spanking. Typical

 

[Clayton Moore]

Agreed.

But, WHILE we are under actual attack, that level of danger would be increased, right?

"...Mr. President, we are under attack..."

So, why would the BEST course of action be to read a book to children???

That is just freaking nuts to me. Defending those actions makes zero sense.

---

That said, this thread generated 3 pages of responses, since I was last here. I'd like to apologize for not getting to everyone's retorts. I would however, like to thank all of your for answering my questions. With that I'll take my leave, as this is not a topic I will ever feel fully informed on, and one I wish not to pursue.

At least you can take with you the absurdity of the debunker's explanation of fires in the the middle of NYC that lasted 99 days.

 

[Animal]

I am rarely wrong

.

When did they radically change the definition of "rarely" to the sames as "usually"?

So tell me what caused the fires under the rubble to last 99 days.

Fire needs three elements.........a fuel source, heat, and oxygen. The debris pile had all three.

 

[triforcharity]

What's absurd about it? Oystein did the math, and showed how much heat energy was produced in 99 days.

What do you find absurd about not being able to get the wet stuff on the hot stuff?

 

[sylvan8798]

At least you can take with you the absurdity of the debunker's explanation of fires in the the middle of NYC that lasted 99 days.

What would YOUR explanation be?

 

[Gaspode]

Some posts moved to AAH.

Keep it civil from now on.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode

 

[Oystein]

Agreed.

But, WHILE we are under actual attack, that level of danger would be increased, right?

"...Mr. President, we are under attack..."

So, why would the BEST course of action be to read a book to children???

That is just freaking nuts to me. Defending those actions makes zero sense.

...to you. To us, it makes sense:
That classroom was already a safe place: It was surrounded by security, it had already been checked for bombs, and all the security measures that they always apply to the President's scheduled appearances were already in place.

However, there was no command post in place of the kind that you envision that the President could have reached through equally safe territory. Whatever communication lines they had in the school lobby (or wherever it was that they later gathered) were geared towards some standard scenarios (like nuclear attack from Russian), but probably not for what happened there and then. If it took them 8 minutes to connect to the institutions that really mattered in that particular non-standard situation, they were really really good. So that's what they did: Improvise a temporary command center, while at the same time preparing for a safe exit and return to Airforce One, parked on Sarasota's airport, iirc. Airforce One finally is a command post well equipped for a wider rande of emergency responses.

That said, this thread generated 3 pages of responses, since I was last here. I'd like to apologize for not getting to everyone's retorts. I would however, like to thank all of your for answering my questions. With that I'll take my leave, as this is not a topic I will ever feel fully informed on, and one I wish not to pursue.

You're welcome. It is rare for a doubter of the accepted story to express awareness of his own limitations and the general spirit of good intentions in this forum, even amid some hostility in tone. I hope the replies you got at least made you adopt a more skeptic stance towards your own, ill-informed, opinions.

 

[Oystein]

At least you can take with you the absurdity of the debunker's explanation of fires in the the middle of NYC that lasted 99 days.

Did you calculate the amount and total energy of combustible materials in that debris pile yet? How many days, you think, would those fires burn? You say 99 is too much, so you must have an idea what the upper bound is, and a reason to believe in this upper bound. Care to ever present those reasons?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Did you calculate the amount and total energy of combustible materials in that debris pile yet? How many days, you think, would those fires burn? You say 99 is too much, so you must have an idea what the upper bound is, and a reason to believe in this upper bound. Care to ever present those reasons?

Your calculation parameters are nonsense. I'd rate them with the magnet used in the famous ethnic magnet gag.

Ahh what the heck - here is my calculation - rough draft:

- Combustibles per quare meter: 100kg/m2 (that is a very low value, compared to most office buildings)
- Office space area: 400,000m2
-> Total mass of combustibles: 40,000,000kg
- Average energy density of office combustibles: 10MJ/kg (again, that is a very low estimate; paper has more, plastics have much more)
-> Total energy of combustibles: 400,000,000MJ.
- This is the energy found in roughly 2.5 million gallons of fuel, or 100,000 tons of TNT
- Seconds in 99 days are 99*24*60*60 = 8,553,600s
-> Power of fires in 99 days: 47MW

47MW is the average net electrical power consumption of a city of more than 40,000 people in Germany (including housholds, industry and public sector).
My car has a power output of 90kW or 0.09MW. So the fires had the power of 500 times my car.
One block of an average nuclear power plant has an output of 1000MW, or 21 times the power of that debris fire.
The largest onshore wind turbines have a power of 1.5 MW. You need about 30 of these to equal the power of GZ.

Conclusion: There was plenty of combustible energy to be released by fires for 99 days.

Your hoops aren't going to work with me.

 

[triforcharity]

What's wrong with the estimates he used? They look pretty close to reasonable in my professional opinion.

Now, what's wrong with those estimates?

 

[Oystein]

Your calculation parameters are nonsense. I'd rate them with the magnet used in the famous ethnic magnet gag.

Your hoops aren't going to work with me.

Ok, take your pick, take one parameter, and give us a reason why you consider it "nonsense"!

Or are you okay that everybody sees you running away like a weasel in the broadest of daylight again?
Or is reason not among your skills?


ETA: Hint: I just found an outright error in my calculation. I'll give Clayton some time to find it!

 

[RedIbis]

The best thing Rotten Rudy ever did for New York, and the best thing he could now do for America is to stay the hell out of the way and let people who have a clue what they are doing handle it.

One thing Rudy has done is provide common ground for the two of us.

 

[tsig]

Inside job doesn't represent the will of the U.S government.
It represents the will of the old PNAC. The will of William Kristol and his friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uT7kcAu4i8

The PNACers did it?

 

[sylvan8798]

Your calculation parameters are nonsense. I'd rate them with the magnet used in the famous ethnic magnet gag.


Your hoops aren't going to work with me.

What would YOUR explanation be? If you are not going to provide us one, we can only assume you have utterly no idea. I don't know about other posters, but I find Oystein's calculations more convincing than "I have no idea". At least he has proposed SOMETHING.

 

[tsig]

Your calculation parameters are nonsense. I'd rate them with the magnet used in the famous ethnic magnet gag.




Your hoops aren't going to work with me.

You might want to say why the calculation parameters are nonsense otherwise it could look like you have no argument.