Insulting Ad about Nurses by Johnson and Johnson

[Nursedan]

I don't understand the ad.

What does it have to do with J+J? What are they advertising/promoting?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Am I the only one who noticed that this guy did have his lucky charm with him when he was in a near-fatal accident!

If it didn't help him then, I doubt it's going to help him now.

No, you were not the only one who noticed.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

While I'm sorry for beating a dead horse, I have a question.

Which phrases are more likely correlated:

Compassion stacks the deck, or good luck charms stack the deck?

I get it that one can rationalize how compassion would stack the deck. That's not the question. The question is if you heard someone refer to stacking the deck, would compassion or a good luck charm be the thing you would think of first?

 

[CaveDave]

Am I the only one who noticed that this guy did have his lucky charm with him when he was in a near-fatal accident!

If it didn't help him then, I doubt it's going to help him now.

Good catch.

But, as they say, "Hope springs Eternal..."

ETA: "GOD must have NEEDED my wife and children in Heaven so He Called Them Home in the crash, but He gave us a MIRACLE by saving my DOG..."

Dave

 

[Subduction Zone]

Am I the only one who noticed that this guy did have his lucky charm with him when he was in a near-fatal accident!

If it didn't help him then, I doubt it's going to help him now.

As already stated, you weren't the only one. But people have irrational beliefs. The patients mental state could be aided by the presence of his lucky charm, that can have an effect on his physical well being. The lucky charm itself will not change affect his "luck". There are benefits from the placebo effect, which is the most you can hope for from a lucky charm.

ETA: The gesture by the nurse is equivalent to a nurse making sure that a cherished stuffed toy is in a child's bed when it is recovering. There is no healing power in the stuffed animal itself, but again it can help ease the child's mind.

 

[CaveDave]

Well said.

Dave

 

[Pup]

While I'm sorry for beating a dead horse, I have a question.

Which phrases are more likely correlated:

Compassion stacks the deck, or good luck charms stack the deck?

I get it that one can rationalize how compassion would stack the deck. That's not the question. The question is if you heard someone refer to stacking the deck, would compassion or a good luck charm be the thing you would think of first?

Y'know, honestly, I don't think either one really makes sense. To me, "stacking the deck" means cheating, or in other words, guaranteeing the outcome of something that otherwise would have a random possibility of occurring, through some special manipulation.

In medicine, I don't think that's possible. There's always a bell curve, or something similar, that gives a range of possible outcomes, but no way to cheat or guarantee.

That's part of what bothers me about the commercial. It implies that good luck charms or similar paranormal things are more powerful than science, and can "cheat" the odds, when the scientific odds would already in theory take into account everything that would affect the patient's chances, including the compassion of nurses, his attitude, etc.

 

[Rasmus]

As already stated, you weren't the only one. But people have irrational beliefs. The patients mental state could be aided by the presence of his lucky charm, that can have an effect on his physical well being. The lucky charm itself will not change affect his "luck". There are benefits from the placebo effect, which is the most you can hope for from a lucky charm.

ETA: The gesture by the nurse is equivalent to a nurse making sure that a cherished stuffed toy is in a child's bed when it is recovering. There is no healing power in the stuffed animal itself, but again it can help ease the child's mind.

yes. but they didn't use a child as the patient or a teddy bear, did they? They didn't actually say "compassion", right?

Where does the annoying habit come from to keep twisting and turning what somebody does to the point where whatever remains can be interpreted in a way that it at least almost sane?

 

[madurobob]

I get it that one can rationalize how compassion would stack the deck. That's not the question. The question is if you heard someone refer to stacking the deck, would compassion or a good luck charm be the thing you would think of first?

Depends on who is doing the talking. If its some loony woo-ster I'd assume the latter. If it was someone I assumed had a rational science-based mindset then I'd assume the former. Up until I started reading the responses in this thread I would have put nurses in the "rational science-based mindset" category. That pretty much describes the nurses I've dealt with. But, apparently my experience is not typical.

 

[JohnnyG]

While I'm sorry for beating a dead horse, I have a question.

Which phrases are more likely correlated:

Compassion stacks the deck, or good luck charms stack the deck?

I get it that one can rationalize how compassion would stack the deck. That's not the question. The question is if you heard someone refer to stacking the deck, would compassion or a good luck charm be the thing you would think of first?

To be honest, neither.

Let me rephrase your question:
Which aspect of nursing do you believe J&J, a supplier of science-based medical supplies, considers valuable enough to fund a national advertising campaign: Compassion or good luck charms?

Since it is so easily misinterpreted the ad was arguably a poor choice, but to think they are actively promoting good luck charms is quite a stretch.

 

[Subduction Zone]

yes. but they didn't use a child as the patient or a teddy bear, did they? They didn't actually say "compassion", right?

Where does the annoying habit come from to keep twisting and turning what somebody does to the point where whatever remains can be interpreted in a way that it at least almost sane?

I might be projecting. If I saw that the person had a lucky charm I would give it back to him, knowing full well that the charm itself had no power. The wording of the commercial was poor to say the least. I will admit that the not taking any chances phrase could have been worded much better.

 

[Emet]

It appears this issue has a longer history:

Johnson & Johnson's Campaign for Nursing Future

Touching the world

May 2006 -- Since last year, Johnson & Johnson has been running new 30-second U.S. television ads with the laudable goal of promoting nursing careers. These sentimental ads are part of the company's massive "Campaign for Nursing's Future" begun several years ago.
(...)
Of course "caring" is an important part of nursing. But everyone knows that, and we believe that only greater understanding that nurses actually save lives and improve patient outcomes will attract the resources nursing needs in the long term.
(...)
Of course, J&J has done more than distribute questionable recruitment materials. To its credit, the company has provided resources for nursing scholarships and fellowships, as well as an extensive, high production value web site (which the Center helped create) full of information about nursing careers. The main page of that site says:

The job outlook is tough these days, but one job is in high demand--nursing. Did you know that well paying jobs for Registered Nurses are available in almost every city in America? But it's not just the job market that makes nursing a good career choice. As a nurse, you have the opportunity to save and improve lives, to teach people how to achieve better health, to advocate for patients to make sure they have the best health care, every day. Learn more about a career in nursing.

Maybe it's because we wrote the italicized sentence for J&J, but we think this description of the actual work of nursing is very good, and we commend J&J for putting it front and center on their site. If only their TV ads reflected that focus on life-saving and advocacy!
(...)
We applaud J&J for continuing to put significant resources into addressing the nursing crisis. We hope the company will show an equal commitment to ensuring that the messages it sends in its public communications actually advance that worthy goal.

http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/media/commercials/jnj_2005.html

Response from Johnson & Johnson

The Johnson & Johnson Campaign for Nursing's Future
(...)
The Center for Nursing Advocacy replies
(...)

http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/media/commercials/jnj_2005_response.html

 

[rwguinn]

yes. but they didn't use a child as the patient or a teddy bear, did they? They didn't actually say "compassion", right?

Where does the annoying habit come from to keep twisting and turning what somebody does to the point where whatever remains can be interpreted in a way that it at least almost sane?

It comes from the same place that twisting and turning what someones does or says to the point that it becomes a perceived insult.
It's called "being human". Some posters here ought to try it sometime. Going through life absolutely sure that you're correct in everything you think (bun not necessarily everything you do) has got to be a strain...

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

As already stated, you weren't the only one. But people have irrational beliefs. The patients mental state could be aided by the presence of his lucky charm, that can have an effect on his physical well being. The lucky charm itself will not change affect his "luck". There are benefits from the placebo effect, which is the most you can hope for from a lucky charm.

ETA: The gesture by the nurse is equivalent to a nurse making sure that a cherished stuffed toy is in a child's bed when it is recovering. There is no healing power in the stuffed animal itself, but again it can help ease the child's mind.

A stuffed animal would have sent an acceptable message, no doubt it was about compassion and not about superstition.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... Up until I started reading the responses in this thread I would have put nurses in the "rational science-based mindset" category. That pretty much describes the nurses I've dealt with. But, apparently my experience is not typical.

I work with both kinds of nurses currently. It's especially apparent when it comes to flu vaccine. The nurses who refuse the vacine generally don't get the concept of science based medicine. Those that get the vaccination at least recognize the evidence regarding the vaccine.

 

[MG1962]

A stuffed animal would have sent an acceptable message, no doubt it was about compassion and not about superstition.

Seriously Ginger quit while you are behind

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

To be honest, neither.

Let me rephrase your question:
Which aspect of nursing do you believe J&J, a supplier of science-based medical supplies, considers valuable enough to fund a national advertising campaign: Compassion or good luck charms?

Since it is so easily misinterpreted the ad was arguably a poor choice, but to think they are actively promoting good luck charms is quite a stretch.

I didn't say they were promoting superstition. I said they were implying nurses accepted the value of good luck charms. Actually, they imply "being human" means one accepts the value of good luck charms.

As for what the ad producers/sponsors intended, I think this is one of those all too common incidences when the unskeptical message whooshed over their heads. It was more like taking superstition for granted and not noticing it was a negative message.


As more and more reactions to this ad are posted, it seems to me that I am particularly sensitive to framing and word choice and not everyone has yet become aware of how powerful these underlying messages can be. It's a different topic and there are threads that cover the subject so no need going off in that direction here. Suffice it to say, there can be a lot of communication that goes on between the lines. This is one of those times.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Seriously Ginger quit while you are behind

Quit what? Do you suggest I should fake my opinion to conform to the group, or just pretend I don't have one?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It appears this issue has a longer history:

http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/media/commercials/jnj_2005.html

http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/media/commercials/jnj_2005_response.html

The Nurse Advocacy complains along a similar line:

We praised the "Nurse Scientists" video and the J&J web site. But we explained why the most powerful elements of the image campaign--the TV commercials--rely heavily on the same kind of emotional, maternal and "angel" imagery that has long been a factor in nursing not getting the resources and real respect it needs.

Definitely something that has been an issue with me since I became aware of the problem in the early 80s. Thanks for the links.


The rest of the paragraph is worth quoting here as well.

We agree that nurses must be caring and compassionate. It's also no surprise that most people like being portrayed as noble, nor that career seekers in a tight job market will respond to big-budget ads promoting a profession that offers many relatively well-paying jobs. But that does not mean that it is in nurses' best interest to be seen primarily as kind hand-holders. We believe that only aggressive efforts to tell the public what it does not know about nursing--that nurses save lives and improve patient outcomes--are likely to attract the resources the profession needs to recruit, educate and retain the best candidates over the long term, and to avert the global nursing crisis.

 

[JohnnyG]

I didn't say they were promoting superstition. I said they were implying nurses accepted the value of good luck charms.
...snip...

I think you need to turn down the gain on your woo detector.