• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Insulting Ad about Nurses by Johnson and Johnson

pipelineaudio said:
But they are in a profession which is supposed to be science based. They should be WAY better than average. Instead you have nurses and nursing schools promoting "wellness" instead of health

Reiki, touch therapy, acupuncture, homeopathy, "traditional remedies", nursing is rampant with this crap.
Click to expand...
So are some medical schools.

pipelineaudio said:
Imagine if NASA had this level of woo, using voodoo to guide the rockets or something
Click to expand...
Imagine if the ICU nurses had this level of woo. You are comparing apples and oranges. Try comparing two professional groups that operate with the same level of technical proficiency. From your example we can go to auto assembly workers and compare them to NASA engineers leaving out auto industry engineers in the comparison.


Dragonrock said:
Apparantly you work with different nurses than Mrs. Rock does. From what I've seen, there is a higher level of woo in nursing than in the general population. Mrs. Rock was a critical care nurse and is now in hospice so it's possible that this is due to them being faced with death every day.
Click to expand...
Well heck, blacks are violent, I know because they were violent where I grew up. :rolleyes:

Since when is it a forum consensus that one can describe a correct stereotype based one one's limited personal experiences?


Look, I'm the first one to say nurses are their own worst enemy. We have failed to delineate between a new graduate with a 2 yr degree working at the most basic level of nursing and a highly skilled ICU nurse with a BSN. I know, I've been in both of those positions. All I'm saying is if people are going to claim there are more woo believers among nurses than among matched controls that it be based on evidence, not on personal anecdotes supporting stereotypes. And I'm saying compare nurses to matched controls keeping in mind the very broad spectrum that goes from what I call blue collar nurses to advanced practice and PhD prepared nurses. My nurse practitioner colleagues are no more into woo than I imagine NASA engineers are.
 
Last edited:
Foolmewunz said:
I'd like to say that it's a pretty well-made commercial if it can garner all these different interpretations from a group of well-grounded skeptics.
Click to expand...
Those interpretations surprised me since the hedging one's bet issue was so clear to me.

Foolmewunz said:
While I don't necessarily disagree with the possible interpretations, on the whole, I'm with Ginger on this. If they wanted to show that she was giving comfort, they could've had him conscious and acknowledge the act, maybe with just a contented sigh. I think that would've also given more credence to the argument that she didn't necessarily believe, but she knew he did.

But having her do it in post-op? Doesn't that sort of sound like all the old cornball lines (we've seen the movies, read the books, and heard the in-laws), "We've done all we can. He's in God's hands, now."
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
Last edited:
Dr. Keith said:
I have an anecdote to add to this observation and some thoughts on where it comes from, at least in this case:

The most religious person in my family is a pediatrician. I used to bristle a bit at her insistence that Jesus is the source of her strength mainly because she was so logical on so many other topics. I mean, she taught me the phrase "zebra chaser" for those who ignore Occam's razor and nothing gets her riled up more than anti-vaxers. Over time I have found that her job is very trying for her and she doesn't get a lot of support from her immediate family. It is tough for her to have kids die in her care and I don't think she feels like her family should have to deal with it. For her, Jesus is the answer to this problem. I don't think it is the best answer, but I understand her reasons and I would never try to take that away from her.

She takes a very scientific approach to her treatment of patients and feels that God has helped her to acquire those skills for these people and it is her duty to live up to that potential. To do less would be to ignore the obvious gifts she was given. But at the end of the day, when she gets to go home to her healthy kids after telling another mother that her child will die in the hospital, she needs to unload that burden to whatever fantasy is willing to take it.

Dissecting the synoptic gospels or exposing the inconsistencies of Genesis seem a bit petty in that context.
Click to expand...
I would have seen the ad as saying supporting the patient's beliefs mattered if the words echoed that. "Stacking the deck" says cross your fingers, keep a rabbits foot, pray, yadda yadda. It doesn't say what the other commercials in the series say, "nurses care" or a message to that effect. For example, there's another commercial in the same series about a hospice nurse and a dying woman who believes one opens the window to let a dying soul out. The nurse says, "Not tonight Berta" Clearly the nurse is responding to the patient's beliefs, not agreeing with them in that commercial.

 
Last edited:
Sorry but I did not feel that she was advocating luck. If the patient seriously believed in things like his lucky charm the presence of it could comfort him and its lack could make him upset. The mental condition of a patient can greatly effect his recovery.

But I might be projecting why I would give it to the patient. I also have had a doctor friend who believed in his share of woo. And my sister's sister in law actually brought up Reiki as a possible alternate treatment for my father who is in a nursing home after he received a brain injury. I was taking her advice seriously until she mentioned that. At that point I lost all respect for her. I did not debunk her nonsense in front of my mother because she is having a tough enough time already. But it did tick me off.
 
The campaign's objective is to address the nursing shortage by motivating people to join the profession. (See FAQ #3 at the Discover Nursing website, which I can't link to, since I'm too new. D'oh!)

If you [by "you" I mean anyone who cares to chime in] were to shoot a commercial to try to get more people to be nurses, what would it be like?

I'm guessing one of J+J's ad agencies produced the campaign, which was then approved by some J+J marketing types -- so it's likely none of the people involved have had much exposure to the awesomeness of skepticism and critical thinking or to the problems that arise with the infiltration of woo into science-based medicine.

I doubt the intention was to promote superstition, but it might be good to do some "consciousness raising" and let J+J know just how this ad, and others like it, can be interpreted. I'll see if I can find some more direct contact information.
 
Xplodyncow said:
The campaign's objective is to address the nursing shortage by motivating people to join the profession. (See FAQ #3 at the Discover Nursing website, which I can't link to, since I'm too new. D'oh!)

If you [by "you" I mean anyone who cares to chime in] were to shoot a commercial to try to get more people to be nurses, what would it be like?

I'm guessing one of J+J's ad agencies produced the campaign, which was then approved by some J+J marketing types -- so it's likely none of the people involved have had much exposure to the awesomeness of skepticism and critical thinking or to the problems that arise with the infiltration of woo into science-based medicine.

I doubt the intention was to promote superstition, but it might be good to do some "consciousness raising" and let J+J know just how this ad, and others like it, can be interpreted. I'll see if I can find some more direct contact information.
Click to expand...
Copy the link and add some spaces, we can take it from there.
 
More troublesome for me is ; "I believe in the power of science and medicine...but I'm ALSO
human..." - eh?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Imagine if the ICU nurses had this level of woo. You are comparing apples and oranges. Try comparing two professional groups that operate with the same level of technical proficiency. From your example we can go to auto assembly workers and compare them to NASA engineers leaving out auto industry engineers in the comparison.
Click to expand...

Much like the way Christopher Hitchens denies the No True Scottsman-Christian Apologist dodging attempt, I would say the same thing

Its not MY fault that all these (different according to you) use the same name to describe themselves "nurse"
 
If one was to add "big thumbs" and "Neil Young" to the tags or subject, I'll bet you a Big Fig we could see a totally different perspective to this topic.

(Just sayin' .....)
 
I think you have to look at the purpose for the video; what is Johnson & Johnson trying to accomplish with it? Answer: they're trying to recruit young people to become nurses, because there's a chronic nationwide nursing shortage. People, especially young people, perceive nursing as being all about bedpans and ickiness, so the Campaign for Nursing's Future is trying to glamorize it, make it exciting and interesting.

So they do this by putting out a video full of shaky handheld camera work and quick jump cuts, and they deliberately add a mystical element with the lucky charm, in order to glamorize nursing. Let's face it, millions of teens out there who are looking at career choices are also the ones paying big bucks for movies and books about glamorous sparkling vampires, so I can see the thinking behind this. Make it kinda spooky, make it mysterious, and maybe you'll attract kids to nursing who are intrigued by the aspect of the weird stuff that all doctors and nurses have seen happen.

I don't see anything worthy of outrage here, unless you're outraged by Madison Avenue.
 
Nursing rap:

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
 
Emet said:
Nursing rap:

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Click to expand...
:D THat's great, Emet.
 
Goshawk said:
I think you have to look at the purpose for the video; what is Johnson & Johnson trying to accomplish with it? ....
I don't see anything worthy of outrage here, unless you're outraged by Madison Avenue.
Click to expand...
rwguinn said:
If you go looking for things to be insulted by, you can always find them.
Click to expand...
Well actually, Madison Av outrages me frequently. ;)


I did not go looking to be insulted. I happen to like the fact there are commercials touting the importance and skills of nurses.

This is repetitive but I'll say it again, if one is sensitized to the 'bad' medicine issue, the statement that a superstitious ritual stacks the deck beyond science based medicine stands out.
 
Am I the only one who noticed that this guy did have his lucky charm with him when he was in a near-fatal accident!

If it didn't help him then, I doubt it's going to help him now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom