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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Mycroft said:
So, I put it to you, how do you explain the reluctance to go that teeny extra step and just recognize Israel as a Jewish state?
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No place in any agreement both Israel and Palestine have signed is it stipulated that Palestine should be the first and only to do so.

Negotiating in bad faith on the part of Israel. Lying when agreeing to Oslo and the Road by Israel is what it is. Preconditions as a lame excuse to avoid compliance with Oslo and the Roadmap.

Fortunately intelligent adults see through the sham.
 
Captain.Sassy said:
I didn't realise that the semantics of recognising Israel as specifically a Jewish state were an issue. Non-recognition of Israel as specifically a Jewish state seems different to me from non-recognition of the state of Israel, or from calling for the end of Israel. What are the implications for non-Jewish residents of Israel of Israel being a Jewish state?
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Fact is, if you actually read what Israeli wankers say, they claim the goal is the destruction of Israel as a jewish state which means leaving out the jewish state part disingenuous to say the least.
 
Skeptic said:
...imagine this: someone constantly and routinely attacks France all the time, declaring its existence is illegitimate, supporting terorrist groups that attack it, and exagerrates any evil it actually does (such as the attack on the "Rainbow Warrior", which I assume for the sake of the argument is evil) to be more or less the worst crime in human history... while at the same time utterly ignoring the crimes of any other nation.

Whould you say someone like that hates evil -- or hates France?
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No imagine back in the 1950s there were constant attacks upon the GOVERNMENT of France for it colonial rule of Libya.

Would that be hating the country or hating the government?

Imagine the attacks on Gov. George Wallace back in the 1950s. Would that be an attack on the state or the state government for its racist policies?

Is not hatred justified for both colonialism and discrimination and segregation -- particularly if one is on the receiving end?
 
Skeptic said:
When Palestinian demands for Israel's destructions resume after a pseudo-"peace" agreement, their first line would be, "we never recognized Israel is a Jewish state, so we now demand it accept millions of Arab refugees".
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The demand is for the Palestinians to receive the exact same measure of justice that Israel demands from Europe for Jews.

Do not the Palestinians deserve the same level of justice as Jews?

If not why not?
 
bigjelmapro said:
False premise yet again. Where does Israel being a Jewish state inherently imply that non-Jews would be 2nd class citizens? It doesn't.

Perhaps the addition of Israel is a Jewish-only state would help your argument, but that would require the fabrication of an argument.
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But as we know it is a fact. Non-Jewish citizens of Israel get no different treatment than Blacks in the pre-civil rights South. You either know that or you know nothing about Israel. This is discussed almost weekly in Israeli newspapers such as Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post.

In fact the segregation and discrimination are in fact a matter of law in Israel. By definition that means Israel is a de jure apartheid state. But you know that.
 
Thunder said:
no such quote exists in the Hamas Charter.

prove me wrong.
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Hamas Charter Article Thirty Two:
After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.​
Thunder said:
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Promoting "The Protocols" = pushing people into cattle cars and sending them to Auschwitz. That's what will happen if you do it enough.
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indeed. the only purpose of advocating for the legitimacy of the Protocols is to exile all the Jews on Earth to a far away island, or to kill us all.

some of the anti-Jewish conspiracy theories voiced here are the exact same ones used to justify the persecution and murder of millions of Jews.
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There you have it. In your own words. Hamas wants to murder millions of jews.
 
Thunder said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110516/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

what does Hamas need to do before Israel can negotiate with them?

#1. they need to agree that the creation of a Palestinian state, based for the most part on the 1967 borders, will mean an end to the conflict and all territorial claims.

#2. they need to agree that as long as negotiations go on, there will be no military operations against the IDF or terrorist attacks upon Israeli non-combatants.

#3. they need to agree that any recognition of a Palestinian Right-of-Return will only involve 100,000 or so Palestinians, most Palestinians will settle in the new Palestinian state or receive full-citizenship in the nations where they reside. An international fund to compensate refugees for lost property will be set up.

#4. they need to acknowledge the right of Jews to visit their holy sites in the new Palestinian state, free of intimidation and violence.

#5. they must agree to allow any Israeli settlers who wish to remain in their homes within the territory of the new state, will have that right and will become dual Israeli-Palestinian citizens.


..but if Hamas cannot agree to these very common-sense ideas, then Israel really has little to talk about and needs to start considering alternative solutions...such as annexing all the land west of the Seperation Wall, accepting back zero refugees , and washing its hands of the WB until the Palestinians have a responsible govt.
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Wow. That's actually more moderate than the regular gang here.
 
mortimer said:
How so? Are non-Anglicans second class citizens in England?
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What does that have to do with apartheid in Israel?

How about neighborhood committees which can decide who is allowed to buy a house in a neighborhood? That is a crime in the US if done by individuals. In Israel these committees are protected by law.

How about in matters of government projects and maintenance non-jewish neighborhoods receive only 5% of expenditures? Recently is was reported by Haaretz that in occupied east Jerusalem the percentage is zero. The PA repaired some streets that not been maintained since 1967. Needless to say PA representatives where not permitted to be present at a dedication ceremony.

Why are people always lying about Israel? Why do they not tell the truth? It is incredible they do not know the truth about Israel. It is in all their newspapers.
 
Skeptic said:
Where the queen is actually the official head of the church.

One can only imagine the outrage if the Israeli president was required by law to be of a certain religion (as in Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, etc. -- funny how that never seems to be a problem...) or had the ceremonial position of chief rabbi (as in England).
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Izziehuggers would defend. They already defend immigrants to Israel having to be of a certain religion. Hypocrisy knows no limits so it would be defended.
 
Thunder said:
didn't the world for the most part support Israel's defense of itself in 1948 and 1956?
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Britain did not support Jewish aggression in 1948 and in fact hanged many Jewish terrorists that year and in all preceding years.

In 1956 only Britain and France supported Israeli aggression against Egypt.

Again I find the ignorance of Israel so profound that it is impossible to conclude it is innocent ignorance but rather deceitful, feigned ignorance.
 
geni said:
Do you think portugal goes out of its ways to kill indians?

Have you forgotten to soon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Goa_1955_invasion.ogg
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You mean the invasion when Portugal was a dictatorship. What does that have to do with the subject.

If as was claimed the intent was to provoke Israel into killing people then for a fact those who organized it knew Israel would kill people else it was a wasted effort.

This izziehugger response is the same as, "But Mommy! He made me hit him!"

It is a mark of immaturity to make such a claim.
 
Removed breaches of Rule 12 and Rule 0.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
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Matt Giwer said:
Hamas is not the government. Hamas is a political party. Political parties are not involved in international affairs in this sense. I assumed you would know that.

I should stop making assumptions.
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Well isn't that one of the Palestinians major problems? Until they can get together and decide on one voice to represent them, how will anything every get done?
 
CincinnatusC said:
Well isn't that one of the Palestinians major problems? Until they can get together and decide on one voice to represent them, how will anything every get done?
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Any such problems are an internal matter for Palestine to resolve. No other country has a say in it.

For a fact the world does recognize the current government of Palestine, so there is one voice that speaks for the people.

And as there is unanimous agreement that the present government has established everything needed for statehood they have gotten a lot done.
 
Syrians did what?

I have given this enough time. As usual the izziehuggers have diverted the entry of Syrians into OCCUPIED Syria as an intrusion into Israel and have justified the use of deadly force.
 
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