General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Skeptic]

You mean they are american . How often do I read "cheese surrendering monkey" ? Man o manm o man, france must be really hated toroughly .

That's "cheese-eating surrender monkey", you frog!

Anyway, again: we're not talking about those who criticize Israeli policy. Someone who criticizes France's foreign policy is not necessarily a hater.

We are not talking about those who criticize Israel in ignorance, like much of the world often forms opinions about many things in ignorance. I'll bet you've met tourists who think Frenchmen are physically and mentally dirtier than the Americans, and are quite surprised to find out Frenchmen speak some crazy, moon-man like language instead of English. They're not (really) haters of France.

We talk, rather, about those who are utterly obsessed with bashing Israel while showing no concern whatever about (a) what happens in any other country, (b) basic facts, or (c) fairness. In fact of the "usual gang" in this forum, not one had ever been to Israel, or the Palestinian Authority, or to the middle east in general, for that matter.

What would you think if I were to constantly and daily do nothing but post smears about France -- rarely if ever about any other country -- and it turned out I never in my life were in France nor speak a word of French?

 

[Thunder]

Removing the part of their charter wherein they pledge to exterminate the jews would be a nice gesture.

no such quote exists in the Hamas Charter.

prove me wrong. quote the text from the Hamas Charter specifically calling for the extermination of the Jewish people.

no reading between the lines. no interpretation. no speculation.

 

[geni]

Meaning the provocateurs knew for a fact the Israelis would go out of their way to kill non-Jews.

Do you think portugal goes out of its ways to kill indians?

Have you forgotten to soon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Goa_1955_invasion.ogg

 

[A'isha]

no such quote exists in the Hamas Charter.

prove me wrong. quote the text from the Hamas Charter specifically calling for the extermination of the Jewish people.

no reading between the lines. no interpretation. no speculation.

Article Seven:

[T]he Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

 

[IDB87]

Article Seven:

In before "Trees don't talk, silly."

 

[Virus]

no such quote exists in the Hamas Charter.

prove me wrong. quote the text from the Hamas Charter specifically calling for the extermination of the Jewish people.

no reading between the lines. no interpretation. no speculation.

We've been through this 1000 times Parky. Your ******** ***** can't handle it.

Edited, breach of rule 12.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[Skeptic]

I wish to point out that while "Israel must be destroyed" literally might be conceivably changed, "we will fight until Allah gives us victory as the Jews who hide behind trees and rocks will be discovered" cannot, as it is a divine decree to those who put it in their constitution.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

no such quote exists in the Hamas Charter.

prove me wrong. quote the text from the Hamas Charter specifically calling for the extermination of the Jewish people.

no reading between the lines. no interpretation. no speculation.

OK.

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)

But we can see by Hamas's actions that by Jihad they surely mean peaceful protest Let's see...

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

 

[funk de fino]

Again, ANTPogo -- I don't mean you or people similar to you. In fact if there is anybody I am not surprised who does know people killed in Syria, it's people like you -- often critical of Israel but clearly not against its existence or safety.

I mean the crowd of so-called "anti-zionists" who are in reality antisemites. I would bet very good money the usual crowd neither knows nor cares if they can't blame the Jews -- look at their total silence in the theads talking about what's going on in Syria and Egypt in this forum.

You could grow a pair and name them. Instead of flinging muck around

 

[Thunder]

OK.

But we can see by Hamas's actions that by Jihad they surely mean peaceful protest Let's see...

links to the supposed Preamble?

thanks.

 

[A'isha]

links to the supposed Preamble?

thanks.

The whole Charter is here.

The complete Preamble:

"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic world is on fire. Each of us should pour some water, no matter how little, to extinguish whatever one can without waiting for the others." (Sheikh Amjad al-Zahawi, of blessed memory).

EDIT: Figures that they're quoting al-Banna.

 

[a_unique_person]

Again, ANTPogo -- I don't mean you or people similar to you. In fact if there is anybody I am not surprised who does know people killed in Syria, it's people like you -- often critical of Israel but clearly not against its existence or safety.

I mean the crowd of so-called "anti-zionists" who are in reality antisemites. I would bet very good money the usual crowd neither knows nor cares if they can't blame the Jews -- look at their total silence in the theads talking about what's going on in Syria and Egypt in this forum.

Sheer ignorance.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

EDIT: Someone already just posted link..

 

[Matt Giwer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110516/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

what does Hamas need to do before Israel can negotiate with them?

#1. they need to agree that the creation of a Palestinian state, based for the most part on the 1967 borders, will mean an end to the conflict and all territorial claims.

#2. they need to agree that as long as negotiations go on, there will be no military operations against the IDF or terrorist attacks upon Israeli non-combatants.

#3. they need to agree that any recognition of a Palestinian Right-of-Return will only involve 100,000 or so Palestinians, most Palestinians will settle in the new Palestinian state or receive full-citizenship in the nations where they reside. An international fund to compensate refugees for lost property will be set up.

#4. they need to acknowledge the right of Jews to visit their holy sites in the new Palestinian state, free of intimidation and violence.

#5. they must agree to allow any Israeli settlers who wish to remain in their homes within the territory of the new state, will have that right and will become dual Israeli-Palestinian citizens.


..but if Hamas cannot agree to these very common-sense ideas, then Israel really has little to talk about and needs to start considering alternative solutions...such as annexing all the land west of the Seperation Wall, accepting back zero refugees , and washing its hands of the WB until the Palestinians have a responsible govt.

Lets review the bidding. Israel and Palestine have agreed to Oslo and the Quartet Roadmap. Neither contain any of those items.

Israel then unilaterally adds preconditions over and above what both parties have agreed to and then demands Palestine negotiate without preconditions.

What have I missed? Did I forget to say Israel lied in accepted Oslo and the Roadmap? OK, Israel lied.

Did I forget to say Israel is not negotiating in good faith? OK, Israel is negotiating in bad faith.

Did I forget to say the izziehuggers are propagandising for Israel and know it? No, I can't say that they know what they are doing.

 

[Matt Giwer]

Israel.

But of course it has nothing to do with hating Jews. It's just your burning concern for human rights and against armed folks gunning down protestors.

Which is why you commented so often and condemned so violently the Syrian government that just killed hundreds. Or Hamas butchering Fatah supporters. Or...

... oh wait, you didn't.

No Jews to blame.

To do so would be off topic here. Why do you demand off-topic posts as evidence to the contrary?

 

[Matt Giwer]

A quick note about the "nakba": this satirical video, in Hebrew with English subtitles (near the end, starting at 5:41) satirizes it as "sinakba" ("sin'ah" [hatred] + "nakba" [disaster]) with tear-jerking interviews of former Nazis who are shocked that their disaster at the end of WWII is ignored: "Within days, they saw their dream of killing all the Jews collapse in front of their eyes"...

Nakbah, Shoah, same thing.

 

[Thunder]

well, Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Israel refuses to recognize the right of Palestinian state. perhaps b4 peace talks start again they can exchange letters of mutual recognition (and all parties in both govt.'s coalitions will have to swear to abide by such recognitions).

 

[Matt Giwer]

Syria kills about the same number of people during a protest as Israel kills during a war.

Amazing how much glib nonsense is recited by izziehuggers. Perhaps some day they will learn to speak the truth.

 

[Matt Giwer]

well, Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Israel refuses to recognize the right of Palestinian state. perhaps b4 peace talks start again they can exchange letters of mutual recognition (and all parties in both govt.'s coalitions will have to swear to abide by such recognitions).

Hamas is not the government. Hamas is a political party. Political parties are not involved in international affairs in this sense. I assumed you would know that.

I should stop making assumptions.

 

[Matt Giwer]

So much non-sense in so few posts by the Israeli haters.
Where to begin? sheeesh...Actually I'm pretty sure the OP does feel dumb
starting this thread the way he/she did.

What conceivably would elevate the government of Israel to a status beyond reproach?

Get with the program. If zionism were Judaism antisemitism would be a moral imperative.