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The Truth Movement: Finally, Lost in Space

Twoof... The final frontier, These are the Voyages of the starship Conspiracy, Its deluded mission. To explore fuzzy youtube videos, to seek out the discrepancies, and just ask questions. To boldly woo, where most have wooed before.
 
CTs are like zombies, they never die and they eat the brains of those too slow to get away.

I think 9/11 became a zombie years ago.
 
As truthers continue to embarrass themselves and spout out long since debunked claims I can only see a secure place for them between Bigfoot hunters and Moon hoaxers.
They have moved the goal posts so far into crazyland I don't consider them having any sort of influence on re-writing history.

I have a hard time understanding why some people continue to listen to Jones, Gage etc.
Are they that bad at research, or to they just tune out everything they do not want to hear?
 
Kent1 said:
As truthers continue to embarrass themselves and spout out long since debunked claims I can only see a secure place for them between Bigfoot hunters and Moon hoaxers.
They have moved the goal posts so far into crazyland I don't consider them having any sort of influence on re-writing history.

I have a hard time understanding why some people continue to listen to Jones, Gage etc.
Are they that bad at research, or to they just tune out everything they do not want to hear?
Click to expand...

In one hundred years time there will be no mention of truthers in the history books.
 
R.Mackey said:
That's the basic idea, yes.



No to the first, since I've seen that for years, but I would accept the latter two. I'm being generous, I know.

And it goes without saying that paranoid excuses for why there's nothing new certainly do not count.

Tick tick tick tick tick... ;)
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Hi, greetings from Spain. I apologize for my poor english.

Amazing challenge, mr. Mackey.

I think after this thread the truthers are going to stay rather quiet. If they do not respond to this, it was proved that they are definitely "lost in space. "

Warm regards to you and to all regular users of this forum.

tick, tack, tick, tack ;)
 
I've had many an enjoyable hour in the 9/11 forum, so I have to join in this thread as one of the witnesses to the final 9/11 CTer fade to black.

The oh-so-ironically named truth movement -- like a rubber spider, it was never alive, but impossible to kill. But it if doesn't move anymore, there's no reason to pay it any further attention.

RIP 9/11 Truth Movement; for the few of you who remain, today is -- and always will be -- September 12, 2001. Good luck with that.
 
dafydd said:
In one hundred years time there will be no mention of truthers in the history books.
Click to expand...

On the contrary, I suspect that the 2000s will go down in many forms of history as a golden age of lunacy. Bush and Obama Derangement Syndromes have both become major historical phenomena, so truthers and birthers are going to get laughed at for centuries to come.
 
Nick Terry said:
On the contrary, I suspect that the 2000s will go down in many forms of history as a golden age of lunacy. Bush and Obama Derangement Syndromes have both become major historical phenomena, so truthers and birthers are going to get laughed at for centuries to come.
Click to expand...

That could turn out to be true.
 
tempesta29 said:
You're welcome:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport
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Dear new friend,

Alan Miller's "Patriots Question 911" list is so old that there may be Truthers who weren't even born yet when it was first assembled. Here is a thread discussing it, and its many bizarre distortions, here at the JREF, almost four years ago.

Sorry, just because it's news to you doesn't mean that it's news. It certainly isn't progress.

However, even this attempt came closer to the mark than any other Truther has been able to do, so I hereby award you a gold star for trying: :starfish:

---

So, is that the best the Truth Movement will be able to do? Time will tell...
 
Brainster said:
SLC saw a strong uptick in visitors since Sunday night, from an average of roughly 750 uniques per day to about 2500 uniques. Looking at the keywords used in searches, it appears that "Loose Change Debunked" is the leader. So somebody's pimping Dylan's magnum opus out there.
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That Pittsburgh Steelers player Rashard Mendenhall made a truthy Tweet the other day, and the yahoo article had an influx of truthers rattling off the same old stuff (free fall, molten steel, no plane hit building 7, yadda yadda). Man, I'd even forgotten about most of them; took me a while to recall the Northwoods refutations. Anyway, when some of them trotted out Loose Change, I replied with Googling for your site. Some of those hits might be from that. Sports fans are a fairly large audience - certainly every bit as large as, say, Rosie or Charlie Sheen fans - so there were likely a bunch of folks who didn't know a thing about LC or any of the truther talking points. Anyway, again, I think some hits must have been from readers of that article.
 
There being nothing new from the Truth Movement is itself not new, as the OP pointed out.

But there is something new in the world beyond the Truth Movement: Bin Laden's death. And though I didn't predict in advance it would have this effect, I can already see it making a big difference now, noticeable even in the space of just a couple of days. It's subtle, but not that subtle. That difference is that even while a dozen new conspiracy theories about Bin Laden's killing are predictably arising, they and all of the other longer-standing 9/11 conspiracy theories have lost their allure.

Here, I think, is why: 9/11 is now, and only now, over and done. Sure, the immediate events were over a long time ago, and there are and always will be after-effects that are never over. But since 9/11 there have been years of non-closure, of an odd sort of suspense, of historical ambiguity.

This has happened before, and on much more significant scales; for instance, between the end of active warfare of the American War for Independence, and the ratification of the U.S. Constitution some seven years later, everything was in an ambiguous state of no longer subject colonies but not yet a nation, and in that twilight, pubic passions ran off in all sorts of different directions. (See, for instance, Shay's Rebellion and the secession of Frankland.)

One of the more subtle, yet consistent and persistent, cognitive illusions is the belief that ambiguity is contagious. If one thing is ambiguous, then everything else associated with it also becomes so. It's the reason magic is traditionally said to happen in the "betwixt and between." Times and places that are borderline, such as neither night nor day (sunrise or sunset), neither one day nor the next (sunset or midnight), neither sea nor land (the beach between high tide and the waterline), neither one month nor the next (new or full moons), neither one district nor the adjacent ones (a crossroads), and neither heaven nor earth (a sacred circle), are all settings where, traditionally, it's been said that the normal rules don't apply, all things become possible, and magic can be done.

I'm not saying any of that's true, of course. It turns out the laws of physics apply just as fully in sacred circles cast at crossroads during full moons as in any other time and place. But the vague feeling to the contrary is a real enough psychological influence on how we think about events. (It's not even, in general, a destructive or undesirable influence. Times, places, and things that are in transition, unresolved, or difficult to categorize can indeed demand unconventional thinking, an aid to avoiding dangers and perceiving opportunities that might arise without precedent.)

The "all things are possible" attitude of the 9/11 conspiracy theory movement persisted and even briefly thrived during the ambiguous time between the attacks and the closing of the main case file on May 2nd 2011. During that interval, 9/11 was over but not done. It was, in a way, a period betwixt and between, one of those ambiguous times when it seemed (at least to some) that facts could become mere possibilities and mere possibilities could become facts. For all the ways the conspiracy theories were wrong, they did, it must be said, seem to fit the zeitgeist.

Now they don't any more. The sun and the moon have moved on in their courses; the sacred circle is broken; the witch is dead.

I could be wrong about this -- it's an attempt to explain a perception from just the last two days that has come as a complete surprise to me. I think if my perception is correct then the gist of my explanation probably is also. But my perception might be wrong instead. In any case, a few weeks, at most -- less than the interval of R.Mackey's Command Loss Timer -- should suffice to tell for sure.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
You know, I hate to say it, but I agree with folks here being cynical about the prospect of people meeting Ryan's challenge. This isn't to say that it shouldn't have been made; I wouldn't argue that. Rather, it's to say that there's been ample time for this to happen now and there's never been anything. I just don't see it happening with an invitation if it hasn't happened already on its own.

Web stories like that Rashard Mendenhall Yahoo story (linked above) just show one aspect of this pretty strongly. To the rank and file, it's a belief system now, nothing more. People just preach. When you look in the comments, you see a Greatest Hits compilation of things that many of us stopped seeing back in '07. Their goal has degenerated from researching to proselytizing. They're not questioning authority, they're teaching and reciting canon. Truthers aren't researchers now, nor have they ever been; they're acolytes. 9/11 trutherism is not about truth anymore, and it's arguable that it's never been. It's about sustaining a belief system. That's all it's become.

Now, for the "high profile" truthers? Have the Loose Change trio done anything to futher their work? I know DRG writes books upon books, but reassembling the same old things in different ways isn't really coming up with something new. Someone else mentioned Steven Jones a little while ago; where's he gotten? And Richard Gage was never a groundbreaker anyway; 9/11 Truth was never anything more than a lunch ticket and ego booster for him.

It's really impotent. Truthers do nothing but kick the dust of old myths around. I seriously wonder sometimes if this subforum should simply be replaced with a keyword script: "Free fall" gets an automatic response, "thermite" gets another one, "false flag" a different one still. I mean, that's all we've been essentially doing in response to everything anyway.

Well, regardless... I like what Ryan's doing, but I don't see any of the other side being up to the challenge. The only things that were stopping them before were the inherent shortcomings of 9/11 conspiracy fantasy. That's too big a problem to overcome.
 
Myriad said:
But there is something new in the world beyond the Truth Movement: Bin Laden's death. And though I didn't predict in advance it would have this effect, I can already see it making a big difference now, noticeable even in the space of just a couple of days. [...]

One of the more subtle, yet consistent and persistent, cognitive illusions is the belief that ambiguity is contagious. If one thing is ambiguous, then everything else associated with it also becomes so. [...]

Now they don't any more. The sun and the moon have moved on in their courses; the sacred circle is broken; the witch is dead.
Click to expand...

Well spoken, sir. You understand perhaps better than I why now was the right time for this thread.

We saw a similar lull in Truther fervor right after the NIST WTC7 report was issued -- there never was any real response to it, not like the furious nit-picking and mystification of the WTC 1 and 2 reports. You could practically feel the wind going out of their pocket-handkerchief sails. Now that bin Laden is history, the effect is even more profound.

I also think I'm being far too generous with my timer, but never let it be said that I didn't give them the benefit of the doubt. There simply never was any doubt to begin with.

> cmdlosstout

CmdLossTout = 58:22:05:56.06775

Time's a wastin', folks. Tick tick tick.
 
I like the idea of offering a reward like the Randi Foundation does for proof of the paranormal. How about offering a $1 million reward for anyone who produces evidence of an "inside job" that leads to an arrest and conviction in a US courtroom?
 
Don't need to.

As I've remarked before, the insurance payouts greatly exceeded 10 billion dollars.

If anyone could actually prove Inside Jerb, those same companies would go back to court and get their money back. That's a lot of money we're talking about.

Even if you're the worst negotiator in the world, you should still be able to negotiate a 1% finder's fee... that's 100 million dollars.

Yet even riches like that, gained in an alleged cause of truth and justice, aren't enough to motivate Truthers. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
 
Here's the latest truther news...

"Top Government Insider : Bin Laden Died in 2001 , 9/11 a False Flag"
http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.

Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.

Pieczenik also asserted he was directly told by a prominent general that 9/11 was a stand down and a false flag operation, and that he is prepared to go to a grand jury to reveal the general’s name.

“They ran the 9/11 attacks,” said Pieczenik, naming Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Elliott Abrams, and Condoleezza Rice amongst others as having been directly involved.
Click to expand...

This "top insider" is now a writter of fiction and his website makes no mention of any of the above claims.
 
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