Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Saggy]

http://remember.org/witness/index.html#Witness

Land of the absurd
http://remember.org/witness/wit.sur.mul.html

Survival by being indispensable

Mueller is a classic. He opens his book with a scene in the yard where he has reported for Sunday morning roll call. The kapo plays a sadistic game with the prisoners, in which 30 are clubbed to the ground dead. A newcomer protests, he is clubbed dead. Mueller's next line has to be quoted .... "Although by now we were exhausted we stood in line behind wooden tea vats. The tea should have been served early in the morning and was now stone cold."

 

[MG1962]

Got that information for me yet Saggy, or are you going to admit you made it up?

 

[little grey rabbit]

>> I am sure you could find Mr Bomba on youtube. <<

Yes, I found the Bomba segments on YouTube.

Anyone who claims that interview to be bragging is either lying or dumb beyond dense. There is pain throughout, and Bomba talks as though he is making himself talk. He does not speak easily under Lanzman's questioning. When "the show must go on," as Saggy says (in your lot's baiting style), Bomba speaks of the pain people went through in the way they died. And, no, Bomba does not come across as bragging or as "fine" or as much concerned with his duties; rather, he talks with deep pain about what he witnessed people doing through.

The indefagitable Manuela has dragged up another testimony of Bomba from 1950

Das Kommando, dem ich zugeteilt wurde, hatte hauptsächlich in der Kleiderbracke zu tun. Wir mussten dor die immer mehr in grossen Mengen anfallenden Sachen der hingemordeten Opfer ordnen und sichten. Zu Erdarbeiten wurde ich überhaupt nicht herangezogen.

In dem Lager habe ich mich genau 2 Monate aufgehalten, da ich am 22.11.1942 mit 2 Kameraden in der Nacht fliehen konnte. Nach der Flucht habe ich mich 14 Tage lang bis nach Czentochau durchgeschlagen, wo ich, nachdem ich auch noch mit dem dortigen KZ . Bekanntshaft machen musste, im Januar 1945 von den vorrückenden Russen befreit wurde.

In this version he doesn't mention being a barber at all, just says he worked in the clothing barrack. And he was in the camp for less than 2 months before escaping back to his home town Czechentochau (sp?), where he stayed in the KZ there working until the Russians arrived.

Which begs the question that perhaps he just stayed behind for labor the whole time and never entered Treblinka at all?

 

[dafydd]

The indefagitable Manuela has dragged up another testimony of Bomba from 1950


In this version he doesn't mention being a barber at all, just says he worked in the clothing barrack. And he was in the camp for less than 2 months before escaping back to his home town Czechentochau (sp?), where he stayed in the KZ there working until the Russians arrived.

Which begs the question that perhaps he just stayed behind for labor the whole time and never entered Treblinka at all?

Uh? How obtuse are you deniers? What was Treblinka doing there in the first place? What right did the Nazis have to send innocent people to them? What is the matter with you? You must hate Jews a lot.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Mueller is a classic. He opens his book with a scene in the yard where he has reported for Sunday morning roll call. The kapo plays a sadistic game with the prisoners, in which 30 are clubbed to the ground dead. A newcomer protests, he is clubbed dead. Mueller's next line has to be quoted .... "Although by now we were exhausted we stood in line behind wooden tea vats. The tea should have been served early in the morning and was now stone cold."

http://remember.org/witness/jagermann.html
MEMORIES OF MY CHILDHOOD IN THE HOLOCAUST

by JUDITH JAEGERMANN, nee Pinczovsky

One day, when I was eleven and a half years old, Mama received aprinted summon, instructing us to appear at Prague's ExhibitionHalls, in order to join a "transport" (i.e. the actualdeportation convoy of human beings to the concentration camps)which would drag us into the unknown.

We were 16 months in Theresienstadt, when one day we heard thatpeople were being sent to Auschwitz, where they were going to begassed.Of course nobody wanted to believe this and everybody saidthat this is impossible and that these were only rumours.

We were pushed into the cattle cars of the train, in the presenceof Eichmann, in his flawless uniform,

Our camp wascalled Birkenau. B 2 B. Block 12.

We saw Papa again after a couple of days and my heart was cryingout when I saw him. He was wearing a very short and narrow coatand looked terribly wretched and degraded in it. He was totallydepressed, because we too must have looked terrible to him. Aftersome time he reported as a cook and had to work for the SS. Ifthey didn't like the food, they would keep his head emersed underwater, until he almost suffocated.

I overheard this by chance when he told it to Mama. Sometimes hewould bring us, under mortal danger, some boiled potatoes and thenhe ran immediately back to his barrack, where he would rack hisbrains what to cook for the SS so that they would like it and hewouldn't be tortured as a result.

One day Mengele appeared in person and asked the barrack'sresponsible whether there were any twins amongst the girls. Sincenobody ever knew whether these questions meant life or death, shedidn't want to take the responsibility upon herself and askedloudly: "Are there any twins amongst you ?".

After our arrival in Haifa, we had been detained again in theAtlit camp. I had to stay there for three months and was onceagain behind barbed wire.Being only 16 years old, I couldn't understand that the sameBritish, who had taught us to walk again, kept us here once moredetained. I cried day and night and could not accept that this hadto be, since I had believed that I would be really free.

Amazing how so many of the horrific bases are so lightly touched. Mama and two barely teenage sisters survive a death camp?

 

[Wroclaw]

Clayton, I asked you a direct question. I'd like you to answer it.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Do you deny all atrocities committed by unwilling participants? Do you, for instance, deny there was a genocide in Rwanda in 1994 committed in part by people who were impressed into doing so by their government, being told that, unless they killed, they themselves would be killed?

That's a yes or no question, by the way.

Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.

 

[beachnut]

Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.

How many Jews were murdered by your NAZI buddies, you are trying to apologize for them? Why? Hitlers goal was to kill them all, are you making him a bigger failure than he was?

How many Jews did Hitler kill? Remember his goal was kill all of them.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The indefagitable Manuela has dragged up another testimony of Bomba from 1950


In this version he doesn't mention being a barber at all, just says he worked in the clothing barrack. And he was in the camp for less than 2 months before escaping back to his home town Czechentochau (sp?), where he stayed in the KZ there working until the Russians arrived.

Which begs the question that perhaps he just stayed behind for labor the whole time and never entered Treblinka at all?

So we have Saggy maintaining that Bomba came off as a braggart for being a camp barber in Lanzmann's film, and we have Little Grey Rabbit mangling Czestochowa and arguing that the barbering is not only a concoction but one that Bomba was inconsistent about.

Which begs the obvious question whether there are/were any witnesses who corroborated Bomba's narrative.

I have at best glancing familiarity with Bomba. Although Little Grey Rabbit makes the small effort to poke fun at my accomplishments as a "scholar" - http://rodohforum.yuku.com/sreply/266535/The-great-Hoaxster-rout-of-2011-causes- (which is as off kilter as tweaking a person who enjoys the zoo and its chimpanzees for slumming as a zoologist), rabbit's real target seems to remain Clayton Moore, who he has become convinced is a "hoaxter." There is, as always with this creature, a simpler and far more likely explanation: Clayton Moore is an ignorant antisemite and/or Nazi wannabe who's managed to learn Google well enough to pick up some confused bits and pieces of bile from the Internet.

 

[TheRedWorm]

<snip>... Although Little Grey Rabbit makes the small effort to poke fun at my accomplishments as a "scholar" - http://rodohforum.yuku.com/sreply/266535/The-great-Hoaxster-rout-of-2011-causes- (which is as off kilter as tweaking a person who enjoys the zoo and its chimpanzees for slumming as a zoologist), rabbit's real target seems to remain Clayton Moore, who he has become convinced is a "hoaxter." <snip>...

Which is ironic when you take this into account:

I don't really mind one way or the other. But on a personal note, it will be a very sad day indeed when I can't get people online hopping mad by saying "The Illuminati did it" or tell them about the One True Crematorium at Birkenau

Well, I believe I can get people hopping mad.

 

[Think_Tank]

Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.

Why am I not surprised that a half-arsed argument from personal incredulity is the best you've got... and you still haven't answered Wroclaw's question.

 

[dafydd]

Why am I not surprised that a half-arsed argument from personal incredulity is the best you've got... and you still haven't answered Wroclaw's question.

He never will. Nazi troll. On ignore he goes.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Which is ironic when you take this into account:

TheRedWorm I feel very guilty about stating that as it has clearly perturbed you somewhat.

To explain a little further, the fact that I seem to be able to get people hopping mad suggests to me that there is some unacknowledged power structure lurking beneath the surface - even if I can not describe it or the world view that moves it, or fully understand the meta-narrative it sees itself existing within.

As such I think it is worth investigating and probing using my own patented Hopping-Mad-O-Meter

 

[TheRedWorm]

Well, it suggest to me that you are not interested in honestly debating anything whatsoever, and are here merely to troll. All I am doing is pointing is pointing this out to my fellow posters.

 

[Wroclaw]

Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

First of all, what you've posted above is what's called a "straw man," and you should look up what that means so that you know not to use them in your debating. It makes you look feeble.

Second, tens of thousands of Jewish men weren't necessary. Perhaps hundreds, but I doubt it went much further than Jewish police and Judenräten in ghettos, kapos in camps, and SKs manning gas chambers. Nor would I say that most of the preceding knew precisely what was going on or how to prevent it. None of them, or at least extremely few, did it willingly.

Third, you didn't answer the question about Rwanda.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

But that's not what I asked.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.

And it's not my version...

 

[Clayton Moore]

First of all, what you've posted above is what's called a "straw man," and you should look up what that means so that you know not to use them in your debating. It makes you look feeble.

Second, tens of thousands of Jewish men weren't necessary. Perhaps hundreds, but I doubt it went much further than Jewish police and Judenräten in ghettos, kapos in camps, and SKs manning gas chambers. Nor would I say that most of the preceding knew precisely what was going on or how to prevent it. None of them, or at least extremely few, did it willingly.

Third, you didn't answer the question about Rwanda.



But that's not what I asked.



And it's not my version...

Back to the nobody knew. And the even more idiotic, cornered rat like, there were only hundreds.

Perhaps hundreds, but I doubt it went much further than Jewish police and Judenräten in ghettos, kapos in camps, and SKs manning gas chambers

So who did the labor for the gas chambers?

So who did the labor for the crematoriums?

So who did the labor for the burning pits?

So who did the labor for the mass burials?


Let me remind you.

Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

Going full circle I don't believe that Germans oversaw and forced tens of thousands of Jewish men to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men.

That's why your version of the Holocaust is a lie.

 

[beachnut]

Back to the nobody knew. And the even more idiotic, cornered rat like, there were only hundreds.

...
Let me remind you.

Why do you NAZIs apologize for your hero Hitler. His goal was to kill all Jews, and now you say he only killed how many? Got a number you like? You can't put numbers with your 911 delusions, can you put a number on how many Jews Hitler had killed? Got math?

Please explain how you claims Hitler could not have done it, but then you said he could do it? Please.

Bet you forgot what you posted, you post so much nonsense, you can't remember what you said.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Why do you NAZIs apologize for your hero Hitler. His goal was to kill all Jews, and now you say he only killed how many? Got a number you like? You can't put numbers with your 911 delusions, can you put a number on how many Jews Hitler had killed? Got math?

Please explain how you claims Hitler could not have done it, but then you said he could do it? Please.

Your purposely obtuse question is Who's on first? nonsense.

 

[beachnut]

Your purposely obtuse question is Who's on first? nonsense.

You have no clue how many Jews your hero Hitler murdered. You can't do the math on 911, it is not a surprise you can't do math for the Holocaust you say never happened because Hitler could not do it. Then you say he could do it if he wanted to do it. Good for you, you post nonsense in the 911 forum and run away, no you can't specify how many Jews were murdered. You have opinions based on opinions you have made up. No data.

 

[Wroclaw]

Back to the nobody knew.

No, I didn't say that either. In fact, that's directly at odds with things I've written here. Which demonstrates either that you can't read or that you don't read.

And the even more idiotic, cornered rat like, there were only hundreds.

Oh, please. Why would I feel cornered by someone as obviously retarded as you are?

So who did the labor for the gas chambers?

Depends on where. In the interest of a short answer, I'll say largely Ukrainians and Sonderkommando.

So who did the labor for the crematoriums?

Are you legitimately not aware that in many cases these were in the same structures?

So who did the labor for the burning pits?

No labor was needed on any regular basis for burning pits, but thanks for demonstrating your low reading comprehension.

So who did the labor for the mass burials?

The people being shot. This happens so often around the world and through recent history, i.e., mass shooting victims being made to dig their own graves, that it is practically common knowledge.

Let me remind you.

Except that's not what I believe, and I said so. Further, I told you that labeling what you think I believe as what I actually believe and then debating that notion and not me is a big mistake called a straw man.

You're ridiculous, you know that?