Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Saggy]

So you're unable to name the massacres, but are sure that none of the sites were excavated? How does that work? How would you know anyhow? Little birdie tell you?

Could have been a little birdie. Just like I know the names of aliens from the planet Romula that have appeared on the Dick Cavett show, that it, there aren't any. See, it's easy.

 

[LemmyCaution]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7120095&postcount=1417

The abovit reminds me of Jon Lovitz of SNL "The Liar" fame.

It's difficult to determine which lie is the most egregious. There are so many I favor the one I'm disclosing, when I'm discussing it..

LemmyCaution tells us

Meaning Jewish people packed Jewish women and Jewish children into gas chambers, millions of them, over a 3 year period. And since they were the slave laborers they did the unpacking of the Jewish women and Jewish children, millions of them, from the gas chambers and then cremated or buried them.

Could Jewish people be forced to do that? I say no.

And I'm the one who is supposed to hate Jews because I know they could not be made to do that?

Yes, in any group of people, many could be forced to do things they find immoral and repugnant on pain of death. The sickos are those who force people to do things like that and those who apologize for the killers.

 

[Saggy]

Could Jewish people be forced to do that? I say no.

And if they could be forced to do it, would they brag about it? Would it make them heroes in Israel? Abraham Bomba bragged that Jewish barbers gave haircuts to their wives, mothers, and daughters, stripped naked in the very room where they were to be gassed right before they were killed, and he became a HERO in Israel, featured in the movie about the hoax, 'Shoah'. Denierbud had the clip on YouTube but it was pulled. You can see it on the onethirdoftheholohoax web site.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Yes, in any group of people, many could be forced to do things they find immoral and repugnant on pain of death. The sickos are those who force people to do things like that and those who apologize for the killers.

The above is why the Holocaust is a lie.

 

[Nick Terry]

Could have been a little birdie. Just like I know the names of aliens from the planet Romula that have appeared on the Dick Cavett show, that it, there aren't any. See, it's easy.

In other words, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

It is perfectly obvious that if you cannot even name the 5 figure massacres then you do not know whether there were any excavations or not.

 

[LemmyCaution]

And if they could be forced to do it, would they brag about it? Would it make them heroes in Israel? Abraham Bomba bragged that Jewish barbers gave haircuts to their wives, mothers, and daughters, in the very room where they were to be gassed right before they were killed, and he became a HERO in Israel, featured in the movie abou the hoax, 'Shoah'. Denierbud had the clip on YouTube but it was pulled. You can see it on the onethirdtheholohoax web site.

Read Gideon Greif's interviews with survivors of the Birkenau Sonderkommando. Those interviewed didn't brag about what they were forced to do, if that is what you think. For years some of them kept quiet and suffered their memories alone. They were reviled in Israel by former prisoners of Auschwitz and other camps who'd managed to survive. In the interviews they talk about how they approached and processed what they were forced to do. Furthermore, according to Primo Levi there were cases of victims chosen for SK duty refusing (guess what happened to them, at least according to Levi?); very importantly, the SK underground at Birkenau organized a resistance effort and, after fruitlessly trying to hook up with the underground among the general population, in fall 1944 revolted on their own.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The above is why the Holocaust is a lie.

The above is another example of a denier blowing smoke out his arse for lack of brains.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Could have been a little birdie. Just like I know the names of aliens from the planet Romula that have appeared on the Dick Cavett show, that it, there aren't any. See, it's easy.

You do seem to get a lot of your information from birdies and the like. Look it, name the massacres which figure in "mainstream" accounts and then refute these accounts. If you can't, why should anyone listen to what comes across as empty wheezing?

 

[MG1962]

Saggy have you thay information for me?

 

[Wroclaw]

Any person who even bothered to take ten minutes and view JUST THE SECTIONS of Shoah during which Abraham Bomba is interviewed by Claude Lanzmann would see that he hardly brags about it. The guy weeps on camera. That's bragging?

 

[Wroclaw]

The above is why the Holocaust is a lie.

Do you deny all atrocities committed by unwilling participants? Do you, for instance, deny there was a genocide in Rwanda in 1994 committed in part by people who were impressed into doing so by their government, being told that, unless they killed, they themselves would be killed?

That's a yes or no question, by the way.

 

[Saggy]

Any person who even bothered to take ten minutes and view JUST THE SECTIONS of Shoah during which Abraham Bomba is interviewed by Claude Lanzmann would see that he hardly brags about it. The guy weeps on camera. That's bragging?

Lord Have Mercy ! He tears up when he tells about giving his naked mom a haircut before she is gassed, right in the gas chamber. Then he's fine, the show must go on. This qualifies as the most degenerate moment ever filmed.

 

[dafydd]

Saggy have you thay information for me?

Saggy coming up with information? That is a novel concept.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I always get Jon Lovitz and J. Novitz mixed up. I saw Shoah too many years ago to recall that particular scene. I would be halfway curious as to how Saggy plays the Greif interviews--although I don't know if Saggy can sustain reading a book.

 

[dafydd]

Do you deny all atrocities committed by unwilling participants? Do you, for instance, deny there was a genocide in Rwanda in 1994 committed in part by people who were impressed into doing so by their government, being told that, unless they killed, they themselves would be killed?

That's a yes or no question, by the way.

Trolls never answer yes or no. Deniers also.

 

[MG1962]

Saggy coming up with information? That is a novel concept.

Saggy has come up with a specific verifiable claim. He has the oppotunity to prove himself correct or to prove himself a liar.

 

[MG1962]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bDY0DfEjmo

 

[little grey rabbit]

I always get Jon Lovitz and J. Novitz mixed up. I saw Shoah too many years ago to recall that particular scene. I would be halfway curious as to how Saggy plays the Greif interviews--although I don't know if Saggy can sustain reading a book.

I am sure you could find Mr Bomba on youtube.

Happily one of the USHMM cleaning ladies, using her after-hours access - managed to sneak into the top secret archives on basement level 3 and found some Bomba's testimony from the 1950s

I reproduce it here

Abraham Bomba
work details
Ich musste bei dem grossen Platz beim Sortieren der Lumpen helfen. Schon am Abend dieses ersten tages wusste ich, was mit den anderen geschehen war (ie his family) . Ich musste auch Tote, die auf den Transport gestorben waren, in das sog. Lazarett tragen helfen, wo diese in der Grube verbrannt wurden. Den Angeklagten habe ich in dem Lager auch gesehen. He frug mich einmal, was ich von Beruf sei, und als ich ihm sagte, Freisuer, erklärte her, wir brauchen einen Flesicher. Ich sah auch, wie der Angeklagte alte Leute und Kinder nach dem sog. Lazarett führte. Ob er sie selbs dort schossen hat, ahbe ich nicht gesehen
Einmal musste ich auch in einem Gasraum des oberes Lager der Frauen die Haare abschneiden. Den Angeklagter nannten wir im Lager Zepp
[more on leading to Lazarett]
der Angeklagte erkläre auf Befragne
Ich habe niemand zur Lazarett geführt

Here he just says once he cut women's hair in a gas chamber without further details. He seems confused about the location of this gas chamber saying it was in the "upper camp" - although as we know the gas chamber was either in the lower camp or represented the boundary between the camps.

Of course in reality it was nothing more than a standard disinfection block with a clean side and an unclean side. But Bomba may not have been fully aware he needed to directly convert the shower rooms into gas chambers - so placed it in a location "the upper camp"

 

[Clayton Moore]

Lord Have Mercy ! He tears up when he tells about giving his naked mom a haircut before she is gassed, right in the gas chamber. Then he's fine, the show must go on. This qualifies as the most degenerate moment ever filmed.

http://remember.org/witness/index.html#Witness

Land of the absurd
http://remember.org/witness/wit.sur.mul.html

Survival by being indispensable

Filip Muller, a young Slovakian, arrived early in Auschwitz _ April 1942 _ and survived! He did so, however, because of his forced work assignment as a stoker in the Auschwitz crematorium and then as a jack-of- all-trades in the Birkenau extermination plant squad, the Sonderkommando.

The need for large-scale efficiency, to cope with the astounding number of corpses produced by the gas chambers, eventually led to the design and construction of new crematoria, and daily capacity rose from as low as six hundred forty eight per day (MÅller's 1942 figure) to a high of over ten thousand (Ho"ss, Gricksch. Request deathcamp.02, Gricksch.rpt, and jahrling.may43), but, as Feig tells us, the SS eventually had to employ large pyres and pits to dispose of the mounting pile of corpses:

As early as June 13, 1943, all was not well with the new installation. ... Eventually the ovens seemed to fall apart. Crematorium Four failed completely after a short time and Crematoria Five had to be shut down repeatedly. (TWC, V:624) (Between 1945 and 1962 Polish officials found five manuscripts written by Sonderkommando members before their deaths. The published manuscripts and documents relate to the specific process of extermination at Birkenau, and provide detailed descriptions of the crematoria and gas chambers.)

The scientifically planned crematoria should have been able to handle the total project, but they could not. The whole complex had forty-six retorts, each with the capacity for three to five persons. The burning in a retort lasted about half an hour. It took an hour a day to clean them out. Thus it was theoretically possible to cremate about 12,000 corpses in twenty four hours or 4,380,000 a year. But the well-constructed crematoria fell far behind at a number of camps, and especially at Auschwitz in 1944. In August the total cremation reached a peak one day of 24,000, but still a bottleneck occurred. Camp authorities needed an economic and fast method of corpse disposal, so they again dug six huge pits beside Crematorium Five and reopened old pits in the wood. Thus, late in 1944, pit burning became the chief method of corpse disposal. The pits had indentations at one end from which human fat drained off. To keep the pits burning, the stokers poured oil, alcohol, and large quantities of boiling human fat over the bodies.

 

[LemmyCaution]

>> I am sure you could find Mr Bomba on youtube. <<

Yes, I found the Bomba segments on YouTube.

Anyone who claims that interview to be bragging is either lying or dumb beyond dense. There is pain throughout, and Bomba talks as though he is making himself talk. He does not speak easily under Lanzman's questioning. When "the show must go on," as Saggy says (in your lot's baiting style), Bomba speaks of the grief people went through in the way they died. And, no, Bomba does not come across as bragging or as "fine" or as much concerned with his duties; rather, he talks with deep feeling about what he witnessed people being put through.