Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Matthew Ellard]

Are you aware the same people who swear the Liberty was an accident demand that their version of the Holocaust is true?

Justice Lukaszkiewicz was Polish living in Poland when he had a forensic expert test the two hectares of human ash at Treblinka in 1945. I don't think he gave rat's arse about the USN Liberty in 1967. Do you?
(PS Treblinka is in Poland. The Liberty was American)

However you are following the Iranian version of holocaust denial determined at the Iranian conference in 2006 by leading holocaust deniers Robert Faurisson, Fredrick Töben, Richard Krege, Bradley Smith and other CODOH members. Gosh.....

So do you agree with David Irving's current views on Treblinka? Yes/No?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Justice Lukaszkiewicz was Polish living in Poland when he had a forensic expert test the two hectares of human ash at Treblinka in 1945. I don't think he gave rat's arse about the USN Liberty in 1967. Do you?
(PS Treblinka is in Poland. The Liberty was American)

However you are following the Iranian version of holocaust denial determined at the Iranian conference in 2006 by leading holocaust deniers Robert Faurisson, Fredrick Töben, Richard Krege, Bradley Smith and other CODOH members. Gosh.....

So do you agree with David Irving's current views on Treblinka? Yes/No?

The Holocaust was an absurdly impossible task. Pretty much anything that proves that a Holocaust over 400,000 lost in the camps was an obvious lie is Jake with me.

Disease and starvation because of Allied bombing of supply lines caused most of the deaths.

 

[beachnut]

The Holocaust was an absurdly impossible task. Pretty much anything that proves that a Holocaust over 400,000 lost in the camps was an obvious lie is Jake with me.

Disease and starvation because of Allied bombing of supply lines caused most of the deaths.

Another failed opinion.
Read Hitlers book, he did it, he planned it. He is proud, he was a moron, he was a murderer. Thug. My dad helped stop NAZIs- my dad killed NAZIs, you apologize for them.

The Holocaust was an industry, you can't figure out, not a surprise you have problems with the Holocaust and 911. Are you going to blame Jews for 911?

 

[Dogzilla]

You deny Germans were good at logistics.

Nice stereotyping there, beachnut.

 

[tsig]

Over thirty Holocaust museums in the US? About 72 world wide?

3% or less of the US population is Jewish. All those Holocaust museums have been built for a reason.

Bluntly put, so anyone who disagrees with Israeli or Jewish interests or Jewish organizations can be arrested for hate crimes.

Are you afraid?

 

[tsig]

Why do you hate Jews?

Fear produces hate so the question is 'why do you fear Jews?'.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Another failed opinion.
Read Hitlers book, he did it, he planned it. He is proud, he was a moron, he was a murderer. Thug. My dad helped stop NAZIs- my dad killed NAZIs, you apologize for them.

The Holocaust was an industry, you can't figure out, not a surprise you have problems with the Holocaust and 911. Are you going to blame Jews for 911?

I didn't apologize for anyone. You obviously don't understand the labor and resources involved in what you're saying happened. Do you think the soldiers performed the labor?

 

[Nick Terry]

Really? No women in the workforce? OK, if you say so.

For once, Dogzilla's skepticism is justified.

The idea that German women were under-mobilised in WWII is a myth which has persisted despite being long shattered by several economic historians. In actual fact, German women had a higher workforce participation rate (getting on for 40% of women) in the 1930s than did British women. Although Britain then imposed labour conscription on women, in actual fact the workforce participation rate of British women during the war remained well under the rate in Nazi Germany. The only difference was that prewar unemployment and patterns of female employment in the UK meant there was a sharp increase, from c 20 to c 30% workforce participation, whereas German women were already substantially engaged in the workforce, and thus there were actually no real reserves of female labour available.

Thus, the level of female employment in Germany remained virtually static through 1939-45, with variations of literally a few percent on the starting position. What did change, however, were the jobs done. By the end of the war, there were more than 1 million German female metal workers, representing a significant transfer of women into that branch of industry compared with peacetime practices. The industries which had traditionally employed the highest proportion of women, especially retail and consumer production (textiles) were actually very hard hit by wartime closures and rationalisation, but the overall level of female employment barely budged. This suggests a saturation level had been reached, and only the imposition of Stalinist norms would have yielded any further increase.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The problem is, everybody is a "Hoaxster in drag" to you.

It is as though he is crying out, "Look at me, I am better and more clever and more noteworthy than all these impostors! Look at me!"

 

[LemmyCaution]

And they coordinated this how? Smoke signals?

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Underwood/Underwood.Elecom50.1956.102646271.pdf

Many scholars have come to believe, had not the Allies after WWI with the Versailles repression kept telephonic and telegraphic communications systems from Germany, that the Third Reich could have won the Second World War. Without modern systems for coordinating over distances, however, and reduced to using primitive methods, the Germans were unable to mount serious military assaults or even to move supplies around or to defend themselves.

 

[LemmyCaution]

For once, Dogzilla's skepticism is justified.

Even the blindfolded drunk at the neighborhood pub on a rare occasion throws a bullseye: which makes Little Grey Rabbit's long string of wild misses without respite all the more glorious.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Nice stereotyping there, beachnut.

That seems to be the nature of the Holocaust beast. Every non Jew of that time was Jew hating scum. It's the same in this discussion for anyone who dares to disagree with the numbers of the Holocaust.


I've said many times that the premises of the Holocaust demean and ridicule the Jewish people of that time. That they were too stupid to notice that millions of Jewish people were being sent to Poland and never heard from again even though there was mail in and out and packages being sent and given out by the Red Cross, babies being born, family areas, schools for children, wages for work and on and on and on.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Many scholars have come to believe, had not the Allies after WWI with the Versailles repression kept telephonic and telegraphic communications systems from Germany, that the Third Reich could have won the Second World War. Without modern systems for coordinating over distances, however, and reduced to using primitive methods, the Germans were unable to mount serious military assaults or even to move supplies around or to defend themselves.

Thanks for explaining why coordinating the movement of millions of noncombatants to Polish camps over a period of 3 years while coordinating a war effort on multiple fronts, air and sea, was impossible.

 

[Nick Terry]

Thanks for explaining why coordinating the movement of millions of noncombatants to Polish camps over a period of 3 years while coordinating a war effort on multiple fronts, air and sea, was impossible.

You're not good at spotting irony, are you?

 

[LemmyCaution]

That seems to be the nature of the Holocaust beast. Every non Jew of that time was Jew hating scum. It's the same in this discussion for anyone who dares to disagree with the numbers of the Holocaust.


I've said many times that the premises of the Holocaust demean and ridicule the Jewish people of that time. That they were too stupid to notice that millions of Jewish people were being sent to Poland and never heard from again even though there was mail and packages being sent and given out by the Red Cross, babies being born, family areas, schools for children, wages for work and on and on and on.

Clayton Moore does not let reading get in the way of his opinions. Already in this very thread we have mentioned Jewish victims who cited helpful Germans in ghettos and camps as well as Poles after the war who were lauded as Righteous Among the Nations (6,195) for their assistance to Jewish victims of the Nazis. And we have also discussed at some length the way news of the genocide, the deportations being carried out publicly being a tip-off of course, spread among Jews, the Polish underground, and the Allies. Clayton Moore handwaves away all evidence contrary to his biases and keeps re-stating his groundless opinions.

 

[Nick Terry]

Clayton, it's doubtful that you realise this, but you are effectively trying to deny that the Nazis deported anyone. This is actually several orders of magnitude more stupid than trying to deny there were extermination camps.

In fact, the majority of so-called 'revisionists' or self-styled Holocaust skeptics accept that the Nazis were quite capable of deporting large numbers of people, and accept that the Nazis did in fact deport Jews en masse. They simply refuse to accept that the Nazis exterminated the Jews, and argue that Auschwitz, Treblinka etc were "transit camps".

Thus, the majority of 'revisionists' actually believe, or pretend to believe, that the Nazis wasted even more transport resources by sending the trains on further east. They then wasted even more resources housing and feeding the deportees, when getting rid of the Jews was their stated aim and killing them was in fact the cheapest and quickest option.

So your incredulity over the feasibility of transporting millions of people to Poland puts you in a minority within a minority. Sure, there have been a few Holocaust deniers who have argued like you, but not one serious 'revisionist' out there currently would do so. Which makes the deportation-denial position especially bone-headed.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Do you think the soldiers performed the labor?

No. I think Soviet POWs, for example, built Birkenau; Poles built Belzec, and local Jews conscripted for the purpose built Treblinka. I think that the heavy labor, including body disposal, in the crematoria at the death camps was performed by special kommandos of Jews. I think that Jews also sorted goods taken from arriving victims, cleaned the trains that brought them, and were forced to carry out other tasks to "process" victims brought to the death camps. I also think that slave laborers helped provide resources to the Germans, producing goods in ghetto workshops and forced-labor camps for the Wehrmacht, working on the DGIV, and constructing the Buna works at Monowitz, to choose some random examples. I think that Germans in various units were overseers of such labor along with Trawniki trained for such purposes.

Of course, as I pointed out to Clayton Moore earlier in this thread, the logistical tasks and resource requirements of the deniers' resettlement nonsense were greater even than those of the mass murder, which involved open-air shootings, with limited need for transportation, construction, etc., as well as death camps. Clayton Moore seems hellbent, as noted, on proving that even deportation to somewhere, despite the public nature of the removal of Jews from cities and towns across Europe, could not have taken place.

 

[Nick Terry]

No. I think Soviet POWs, for example, built Birkenau; Poles built Belzec, and local Jews conscripted for the purpose built Treblinka. I think that the heavy labor, including body disposal, in the crematoria at the death camps was performed by special kommandos of Jews. I think that Jews also sorted goods taken from arriving victims, cleaned the trains that brought them, and were forced to carry out other tasks to "process" victims brought to the death camps. I also think that slave laborers helped provide resources to the Germans, producing goods in ghetto workshops for the Wehrmacht, working on the DGIV, and constructing the Buna works, to choose some random examples. I think that Germans in various units were overseers of such labor along with Trawniki trained for such purposes.

It is especially priceless to see Clayton Moore's incredulity over manpower since other chimps have expressed incredulity over the fact that Belzec had a staff of barely a dozen Germans when it opened its doors for 'business'. The latter incredulity ignores the presence of a fully armed infantry company sized force of Ukrainian collaborators, the Trawnikis.

So, deniers, which is it to be?

And why do we not hear from Saggy, Dogzilla and bunny rabbit telling Mr Moore how dumb he is and how he harms the cause of 'revisionism'?

 

[little grey rabbit]

It is especially priceless to see Clayton Moore's incredulity over manpower since other chimps have expressed incredulity over the fact that Belzec had a staff of barely a dozen Germans when it opened its doors for 'business'. The latter incredulity ignores the presence of a fully armed infantry company sized force of Ukrainian collaborators, the Trawnikis.

So, deniers, which is it to be?

And why do we not hear from Saggy, Dogzilla and bunny rabbit telling Mr Moore how dumb he is and how he harms the cause of 'revisionism'?

I think Mr Moore is very clever and yes he harms the cause of 'revisionism'

Well, not really. I mean harming the cause of revisionism is a bit like stepping on a dead duck. Really, what difference does it make? This bird ain't ever going to fly.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton, it's doubtful that you realise this, but you are effectively trying to deny that the Nazis deported anyone. This is actually several orders of magnitude more stupid than trying to deny there were extermination camps.

In fact, the majority of so-called 'revisionists' or self-styled Holocaust skeptics accept that the Nazis were quite capable of deporting large numbers of people, and accept that the Nazis did in fact deport Jews en masse. They simply refuse to accept that the Nazis exterminated the Jews, and argue that Auschwitz, Treblinka etc were "transit camps".

Thus, the majority of 'revisionists' actually believe, or pretend to believe, that the Nazis wasted even more transport resources by sending the trains on further east. They then wasted even more resources housing and feeding the deportees, when getting rid of the Jews was their stated aim and killing them was in fact the cheapest and quickest option.

So your incredulity over the feasibility of transporting millions of people to Poland puts you in a minority within a minority. Sure, there have been a few Holocaust deniers who have argued like you, but not one serious 'revisionist' out there currently would do so. Which makes the deportation-denial position especially bone-headed.

You make that crap up as you go along? I never said there wasn't "deporting" taking place. And I doubt if three million people were deported to Poland. The only way to determine how many were deported would be know what the capacities of the camps were and the labor that was being performed nearby the camps.

BTW People don't get abused when work is expected of them. Erase those those 1500bc quarry scenes from your mind.