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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Nick Terry said:
Oooh, bunny actually produced a source for once in his miserable life, and lo and behold, it doesn't say quite what he thinks it does.

Actually I stated that it would not be a career-advancer to have "involvement with an internet troll on an unauthorised investigation". This is quite a different statement to the one you claim above, where you pretend that I made a blanket refusal for any GPR research. On the contrary, I simply refused any involvement with you - an anonymous internet troll, who had not, and still has not, demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the written sources for Treblinka.

Your claim that I refused to state if I believed a GPR study would show earth disturbances at Treblinka is quite false, too. You claimed repeatedly things like this:



to which I replied



earlier in that thread I also stated in response to a similar trollish attempt to put words in my mouth that



Your claim then was that I did not "believe" there were mass soil disturbances at Treblinka. I replied that I knew there were, based on specific evidence. You then failed to demonstrate why this evidence should be discarded in its entirety. So the conversation stopped.
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In other words, typical rabbit B.S.
 
All I can say is I recommend all readers view this excellent short discussion
http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/836/A-modest-counter-proposal-regarding-Treblinka?page=1

and ask themselves 2 questions
1. Was Dr Terry doing everything he could to duck an offer to repeat the GPR investigation - including all equipment provided and expenses paid.
2. Does Dr Terry really believe there are mass earth disturbances at Treblinka II?

I think any fair minded person would answer "yes" to #1 and "no" to #2
 
little grey rabbit said:
All I can say is I recommend all readers view this excellent short discussion
http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/836/A-modest-counter-proposal-regarding-Treblinka?page=1

and ask themselves 2 questions
1. Was Dr Terry doing everything he could to duck an offer to repeat the GPR investigation - including all equipment provided and expenses paid.
2. Does Dr Terry really believe there are mass earth disturbances at Treblinka II?

I think any fair minded person would answer "yes" to #1 and "no" to #2
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, bunny, what you think and reality are hardly ever even vaguely acquainted with each other.
 
So-called holocaust "revisionists" are, of course, in reality holocaust deniers, who do it in order to make murderous antisemitism socially acceptable again. They also trot out the same old "Jews control the world" antisemitic conspiracy theories, but, for the same reason of shooting for social acceptance, re-name them "zionists" or "international bankers" or similar cover names.

The ironic thing is that there are tons of real holocaust revisionists. They are known as "historians". Historians hotly debate, for instance, if the holocaust really was planned in some form since the 1920s or a result of the war in the east in the early 1940s. Historians debate if really six million were killed -- some say it was "only" about 5,100,000 million or so, some that it is up to 6,700,000. Historians exploded the myth of the "lamps made of human skin" or "soap made of human fat" as -- horrific as they were -- at most isolated experiments. Historians noted that the USSR's claim that "four million soviet citizens" were killed in Auschwitz is not true, and that Hoess bragging about killing two million was an exagerration. (Yes, the -- roughly -- 6 million Jewish dead are computed *after* discounting these exagerrations.) Historians note that there were many millions of non-Jewish victims: for example, "Nizkor"'s web site is dedicated to the "12 million victims" of Nazi camps and massacres, about 6 million Jews and 6 million non-Jews. Historians even note that the Nuremberg trials, while certainly light-years away from anything the Nazis would have given a vanquished enemy, were nevertheless (unavoidably) victor's justice, and in some cases the judges, being human, probably erred: e.g., some (Streicher) were hanged more due to their loathsome personality than due to anything they did that formally violated the indictment's counts, while others (Speer) got off lightly because they were of the upper class, young and handsome.

Now, NONE of this fits the "Hitler planned to make all the Jews into soap from the 1920s and gassed six million of the in Auschwitz, until perfect justice reached them in Nuremberg" story some of us heard as children, or even in school. Yet NONE of the historians who "doubted the official story" -- the caricature I just quoted -- were ever called holocaust deniers by any serious person. Why? Because this sort of historical revisionism, checking the accepted story of the past based on evidence, is what historians DO.

This is 100% different than what the deniers, who wrongly call themselves "revisionists", do. They "know" the holocaust is all a "zionist" (read: Jewish) lie, and that's what they set out to "prove". This isn't history; this isn't revising history; this is simply denying the truth out of antisemitism.
 
Nick Terry said:
Unfortunately, bunny, what you think and reality are hardly ever even vaguely acquainted with each other.
Click to expand...

They are as two ships that pass in the night or two ships that don't pass or two ships in different oceans.
 
Skeptic said:
So-called holocaust "revisionists" are, of course, in reality holocaust deniers, who do it in order to make murderous antisemitism socially acceptable again. They also trot out the same old "Jews control the world" antisemitic conspiracy theories, but, for the same reason of shooting for social acceptance, re-name them "zionists" or "international bankers" or similar cover names.

The ironic thing is that there are tons of real holocaust revisionists. They are known as "historians". Historians hotly debate, for instance, if the holocaust really was planned in some form since the 1920s or a result of the war in the east in the early 1940s. Historians debate if really six million were killed -- some say it was "only" about 5,100,000 million or so, some that it is up to 6,700,000. Historians exploded the myth of the "lamps made of human skin" or "soap made of human fat" as -- horrific as they were -- at most isolated experiments. Historians noted that the USSR's claim that "four million soviet citizens" were killed in Auschwitz is not true, and that Hoess bragging about killing two million was an exagerration. (Yes, the -- roughly -- 6 million Jewish dead are computed *after* discounting these exagerrations.) Historians note that there were many millions of non-Jewish victims: for example, "Nizkor"'s web site is dedicated to the "12 million victims" of Nazi camps and massacres, about 6 million Jews and 6 million non-Jews. Historians even note that the Nuremberg trials, while certainly light-years away from anything the Nazis would have given a vanquished enemy, were nevertheless (unavoidably) victor's justice, and in some cases the judges, being human, probably erred: e.g., some (Streicher) were hanged more due to their loathsome personality than due to anything they did that formally violated the indictment's counts, while others (Speer) got off lightly because they were of the upper class, young and handsome.

Now, NONE of this fits the "Hitler planned to make all the Jews into soap from the 1920s and gassed six million of the in Auschwitz, until perfect justice reached them in Nuremberg" story some of us heard as children, or even in school. Yet NONE of the historians who "doubted the official story" -- the caricature I just quoted -- were ever called holocaust deniers by any serious person. Why? Because this sort of historical revisionism, checking the accepted story of the past based on evidence, is what historians DO.

This is 100% different than what the deniers, who wrongly call themselves "revisionists", do. They "know" the holocaust is all a "zionist" (read: Jewish) lie, and that's what they set out to "prove". This isn't history; this isn't revising history; this is simply denying the truth out of antisemitism.
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All that crap is retrofitting the old lies so that they could protect the Holocaust myth.


The real truth is that there is no debate on/within this subject because the historians don't allow it. Any attempt at conversation about the Holocaust raises an anti-Semite flag.

The same type of cover up is taking place with 9/11,

A mainstream media blackout for almost ten years.

The same zionists/neoconservatists at the forefront.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
The same zionists/neoconservatists at the forefront.
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Can you name any of these Zionists/neoconservatives and describe how they maintain the holocaust stories? Did the conservatives work hand in hand with the communist Russian government to fake holocaust documents to promote communism or conservatism? You were not very clear in your post.

Are you suggesting that communists and conservatives were really working together to trick holocaust deniers? ( You're not the first to claim this)
 
Saggy said:
They were not exterminated or killed. For crying out loud the Nazi records for the deaths at Auschwitz are available. More Roman Catholics died there than Jews.

The state of Israel owes its existence to the holohoax. The wars in Iraq ("The US invaded Iraq to secure Israel, and everyone knows it", senator Fritz Hollings) and Afghanistan (and Pakistan) are being fought because of Israel. Israel is now trying to provoke another war with Iran. How many more people in the middle east have to die to satisfy the Zionists.
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Those wars were started to have an IMMEDIATE US presence in the ME to do Israel's dirty work with American lives. Everything else, the oil, the raw materials, etc. is gravy.
 
In a surprise move, eschewing the sweeping generalizations for which he is becoming known, Clayton Moore treats readers to an in-depth and detailed assessment of the main currents of 60 odd years of holocaust scholarship, describing not only the contending schools of thought but the debates that animated their evolution:
All that crap is retrofitting the old lies so that they could protect the Holocaust myth.

The real truth is that there is no debate on/within this subject because the historians don't allow it. Any attempt at conversation about the Holocaust raises an anti-Semite flag.
Click to expand...
At the same time, Clayton Moore decouples his own views from the rancid and degenerate politics that characterize academic writing on the genocide, showing that his views on the holocaust are not entangled with any political or ideological agenda:
The same type of cover up is taking place with 9/11,

A mainstream media blackout for almost ten years.

The same zionists/neoconservatists at the forefront.
Click to expand...

Those wars were started to have an IMMEDIATE US presence in the ME to do Israel's dirty work with American lives. Everything else, the oil, the raw materials, etc. is gravy.
Click to expand...
 
LemmyCaution said:
In a surprise move, eschewing the sweeping generalizations for which he is becoming known, Clayton Moore treats readers to an in-depth and detailed assessment of the main currents of 60 odd years of holocaust scholarship, describing not only the contending schools of thought but the debates that animated their evolution:
At the same time, Clayton Moore decouples his own views from the rancid and degenerate politics that characterize academic writing on the genocide, showing that his views on the holocaust are not entangled with any political or ideological agenda:
Click to expand...

Clayton Moore is a Hoaxster in drag. That shouldn't stop you debating him if you feel it is a productive use of your time.

For the record, I think the creation of Israel has almost certainly made US relations in the middle east far more difficult than they would otherwise.

It would be tempting to speculate how cheap petrol at the bowser would be if there were no Israel. But I am going to resist that temptation.
 
Nick Terry said:
The problem is, everybody is a "Hoaxster in drag" to you.
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Not exactly, but I think you will find that genuine deniers suffer "consequences" and become silent (whereas Hoaxsters in drag never suffer any adverse effects) or they may confuse "hoaxsters in drag" for real deniers and become disillusioned with Holocaust denial in total. Its the old case that bad money drives out good money.

The reason that Holocaust Denial is correct is not despite that so many of the major proponents are dishonest shysters but BECAUSE so many of its major proponents are dishonest shysters. Otherwise it would not attract so much infiltration
 
The reason that TV Evangelism is correct is not despite that so many of the major proponents are dishonest shysters but BECAUSE so many of its major proponents are dishonest shysters. Otherwise it would not attract so much infiltration
 
little grey rabbit said:
Not exactly, but I think you will find that genuine deniers suffer "consequences" and become silent (whereas Hoaxsters in drag never suffer any adverse effects) or they may confuse "hoaxsters in drag" for real deniers and become disillusioned with Holocaust denial in total. Its the old case that bad money drives out good money.

The reason that Holocaust Denial is correct is not despite that so many of the major proponents are dishonest shysters but BECAUSE so many of its major proponents are dishonest shysters. Otherwise it would not attract so much infiltration
Click to expand...

The only "infiltration" suffered by Holocaust denial of late has been down to you giving away your CODOH password to anti-deniers.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Not exactly, but I think you will find that genuine deniers suffer "consequences" and become silent (whereas Hoaxsters in drag never suffer any adverse effects) or they may confuse "hoaxsters in drag" for real deniers and become disillusioned with Holocaust denial in total. Its the old case that bad money drives out good money.

The reason that Holocaust Denial is correct is not despite that so many of the major proponents are dishonest shysters but BECAUSE so many of its major proponents are dishonest shysters. Otherwise it would not attract so much infiltration
Click to expand...
Holocaust Denial?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Your version of the Holocaust demands the Germans directly managed the movement, supervision, etc. of 10 to 20 million or more noncombatants in Germany, Poland, and much of Europe while fighting WWII on at least three fronts and at sea. Forget you and your smokescreen request for details.
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You deny Germans were good at logistics.
 
This entire thread is nauseating proof that conspiracies thrive even when the most obvious evidence that something happened is plastered on every single wall with no means to avoid it. Certainly there was a ton of propaganda material published in the states against nazi germany, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened, and evidence is all over the place no matter how much holocaust deniers want it to be false.
 
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little grey rabbit said:
Not exactly, but I think you will find that genuine deniers suffer "consequences" and become silent (whereas Hoaxsters in drag never suffer any adverse effects) or they may confuse "hoaxsters in drag" for real deniers and become disillusioned with Holocaust denial in total. Its the old case that bad money drives out good money.

The reason that Holocaust Denial is correct is not despite that so many of the major proponents are dishonest shysters but BECAUSE so many of its major proponents are dishonest shysters. Otherwise it would not attract so much infiltration
Click to expand...

You live in a world of your own.
 
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