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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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little grey rabbit said:
I think Mr Moore is very clever and yes he harms the cause of 'revisionism'

Well, not really. I mean harming the cause of revisionism is a bit like stepping on a dead duck. Really, what difference does it make? This bird ain't ever going to fly.
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which begs the perennial question - why do you bother? I presume it has something to do with trying to get people 'hopping mad'.
 
Nick Terry said:
which begs the perennial question - why do you bother? I presume it has something to do with trying to get people 'hopping mad'.
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Its just interesting to try and figure out how it fits together and how it was constructed. Its like a game of wits.

I have a Hopping-Mad-O-Meter which I use to test out my guesses on Hoaxsters and to try and work out which are true and which are not. That of course has a fatal flaw - it relies on the principle that Hoaxsters actually know the true facts - not always true when you get down to details.
 
Clayton Moore said:
You make that crap up as you go along? I never said there wasn't "deporting" taking place. And I doubt if three million people were deported to Poland. The only way to determine how many were deported would be know what the capacities of the camps were and the labor that was being performed nearby the camps.

BTW People don't get abused when work is expected of them. Erase those those 1500bc quarry scenes from your mind.
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Backpedalling now are we? Not so long ago you said this:

Thanks for explaining why coordinating the movement of millions of noncombatants to Polish camps over a period of 3 years while coordinating a war effort on multiple fronts, air and sea, was impossible.
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This sentence, written by you, claims that the movement of millions of people to Poland was 'impossible'. In other words, you are denying deportations.

You are no doubt doing so because you are bone-ignorant of the history. If it hasn't sunk in yet, Poland had the largest Jewish population in Europe at the time. The majority of the Jews did not have very far to go.

From 1939-41, the Nazis moved 100s of 1000s of ethnic Germans out of Soviet annexed territories, from the Baltic states, eastern Poland and Bessarabia. They resettled them in Poland. They moved 100s of 1000s of Poles from one part of Poland to another to make room for the ethnic Germans. At the same time, they deported more than 1 million Poles to Germany as workers. They also mobilised nearly 10 million Germans as soldiers, and every one of those soldiers had to be moved. Many millions were moved two or three times since there were four big campaigns from 1939-41. They moved more than 2 million prisoners of war from France, Belgium, Poland, Yugoslavia into Germany.

And in the same time frame, they deported about 50,000 Jews in various directions, some from west Germany to France, some from central Germany, Austria and the Czech lands to Poland, and a large number of Polish Jews from the west of the country to the east of occupied Poland. They also moved several hundred thousand Jews locally, in some areas deciding to concentrate Jews from smaller towns into bigger ghettos like Warsaw, in other areas they wanted fewer Jews in some towns so they forced most of the Jews of Cracow to leave their home town.

In late 1941, the Nazis deported more Jews, about 50,000 from the Reich were sent to Lodz and to Russia. Some of those deportations were actually stopped because the Army protested about the use of precious transport resources at a time when the Eastern Front was badly supplied. But it did not affect any military operations to move Jews to Lodz, which was well out of the way of the main military supply routes. The Jews were then either shot on arrival or interned in ghettos along with Polish, Latvian or Belorussian Jews.

Starting in December 1941, the Nazis began to deport Polish Jews out of the Lodz area and of the city of Lodz to Chelmno, which lies to the west of Lodz. They used a local field railway which was not part of the main railway network. The journeys were very short, and the operation was kept within manageable limits so that only 1 or 2 thousand were deported every day.

In March 1942, deportations began on a larger scale. More trains left Germany, Austria and the Czech lands. For this month we actually have a report by the Nazi state secretary of transport which indicates that there were only about 30 such trains in that month, versus more than 15,000 trains run inside Germany in that month.

I can continue, but let's see whether you can comprehend the above points first.
 
Thanks for explaining why coordinating the movement of millions of noncombatants to Polish camps over a period of 3 years while coordinating a war effort on multiple fronts, air and sea, was impossible.
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Certainly I was including the killing of that 3 million in what was impossible.
 
tsig said:
Fear produces hate so the question is 'why do you fear Jews?'.
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Yes,better. I notice that Clayton dodged my question about why the loveable Nazis put the camps there in the first place,regardless of how many people the Nazis murdered.
 
dafydd said:
Yes,better. I notice that Clayton dodged my question about why the loveable Nazis put the camps there in the first place,regardless of how many people the Nazis murdered.
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Well he has dodged most questions actually
 
dafydd said:
He cannot be taken seriously. A real discussion involves a bit of give and take,not some nazi telling us how stupid we all are.
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Yeah I am not sure what the motive is. Just arguing from a point of disbelieving will not get anyone anywhere
 
Clayton Moore said:
I didn't apologize for anyone. You obviously don't understand the labor and resources involved in what you're saying happened. Do you think the soldiers performed the labor?
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My dad liberated camps, I don't have to look up in history books, history was alive in my dad. I understand all of Germany was involved in a war, a whole nation working, and Hitler's goal was to kill all the Jews. Did you fail to read his book? It is clear from reading Hitler's words, his goal was to eliminate Jews. I don't think you realize how involved Germany was in a war time industry. rif

It was Hitler's goal to kill them all, the best part of your evidence free crusade, you can only make the biggest loser in history a bigger loser by making up excuses for why he could not do what he planned to do. It does not matter what you make up, the good NAZIs you apologize for failed, and you are making them bigger failures by saying they failed to kill as many as they planned on killing, which was all, so they failed anyway.

Math would come in handy. Civilians who died in europe due to the war by accident was a rate much lower than the rate of missing Jews. If you were a Jew in Poland, only 1 in 11 survived the war, because they got the special treatment you say is impossible. What was the typical civilian rate of being killed by war events? Magically disappearing Jews, because you say the NAZIs were unable to kill them. I guess loading them in boxcars was just a holiday. Starving them, herding them was a vacation drill, for their own good.

Einstein thought he was a German, until Hitler made him a Jew. What does Einstein say about your impossible claim for killing people in an industry built to kill people. Why did Einstein leave Germany? You did not have to be Einstein to figure out murdering thugs took over Germany in the 30s. Why did they make Jews wear the star of David? Was it so they would not accidentally shoot them? So NAZIs would treat them with respect? Good to know Hitler failed to kill as many as he planned, thanks for the update. Did you use the same logic on 911 as you used on this issue? Where do you get your tools to figure this out, are you a neoNAZI? Did you read Hitler's book?
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Clayton Moore said:
Are you aware the same people who swear the Liberty was an accident demand that their version of the Holocaust is true? ...
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The same people who think the USS Liberty was an accident think 2+2=4. Now I understand your claims, they are based on superior logic.
 
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beachnut said:
My dad liberated camps, I don't have to look up in history books, history was alive in my dad. I understand all of Germany was involved in a war, a whole nation working, and Hitler's goal was to kill all the Jews. Did you fail to read his book? It is clear from reading Hitler's words, his goal was to eliminate Jews. I don't think you realize how involved Germany was in a war time industry. rif

It was Hitler's goal to kill them all, the best part of your evidence free crusade, you can only make the biggest loser in history a bigger loser by making up excuses for why he could not do what he planned to do. It does not matter what you make up, the good NAZIs you apologize for failed, and you are making them bigger failures by saying they failed to kill as many as they planned on killing, which was all, so they failed anyway.

Math would come in handy. Civilians who died in europe due to the war by accident was a rate much lower than the rate of missing Jews. If you were a Jew in Poland, only 1 in 11 survived the war, because they got the special treatment you say is impossible. What was the typical civilian rate of being killed by war events? Magically disappearing Jews, because you say the NAZIs were unable to kill them. I guess loading them in boxcars was just a holiday. Starving them, herding them was a vacation drill, for their own good.

Einstein thought he was a German, until Hitler made him a Jew. What does Einstein say about your impossible claim for killing people in an industry built to kill people. Why did Einstein leave Germany? You did not have to be Einstein to figure out murdering thugs took over Germany in the 30s. Why did they make Jews wear the star of David? Was it so they would not accidentally shoot them? So NAZIs would treat them with respect? Good to know Hitler failed to kill as many as he planned, thanks for the update. Did you use the same logic on 911 as you used on this issue? Where do you get your tools to figure this out, are you a neoNAZI? Did you read Hitler's book?
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The same people who think the USS Liberty was an accident think 2+2=4. Now I understand your claims, they are based on superior logic.
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If he had wanted to or intended to kill them all as you put it he would have done so. It would have been comparatively simple to do under the guise of wartime collateral damage.

You think the attack on the USS Liberty was an accident?
 
Clayton Moore said:
If he had wanted to or intended to kill them all as you put it he would have done so. It would have been comparatively simple to do under the guise of wartime collateral damage.
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But I thought you said that it was impossible. Which is it.

BTW, genius, your hero, Hitler, did kill as many Jews as he could.
 
Clayton Moore said:
The Holocaust was an absurdly impossible task. Pretty much anything that proves that a Holocaust over 400,000 lost in the camps was an obvious lie is Jake with me.

Disease and starvation because of Allied bombing of supply lines caused most of the deaths.
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Clayton Moore said:
If he had wanted to or intended to kill them all as you put it he would have done so. It would have been comparatively simple to do under the guise of wartime collateral damage.

You think the attack on the USS Liberty was an accident?
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So which is it?
 
Clayton Moore said:
If he had wanted to or intended to kill them all as you put it he would have done so. It would have been comparatively simple to do under the guise of wartime collateral damage.

You think the attack on the USS Liberty was an accident?
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First you say it was impossible to kill all of the ones who were murdered, now you say it was easy to murder all of them if he wanted. Is Hitler your hero. He can't murder the ones he did, but he could murder all of them if he wanted to. Winning logic, is the key to your success.

The USS liberty has nothing to do with the Holocaust. It was your way of bragging on your superior logic. I am humbled in your presence; Hi Ho Silver.
 
Clayton Moore said:
If he had wanted to or intended to kill them all as you put it he would have done so. It would have been comparatively simple to do under the guise of wartime collateral damage.

You think the attack on the USS Liberty was an accident?
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Why do you fear and hate Jews? Was your mother frightened by one when she was carrying you?
 
Clay's "arguments" might be the most inept I have seen from a Holocaust denier on these forums. That is quite an accomplishment given the stiff competition.
 
LemmyCaution said:
Many scholars have come to believe, had not the Allies after WWI with the Versailles repression kept telephonic and telegraphic communications systems from Germany, that the Third Reich could have won the Second World War. Without modern systems for coordinating over distances, however, and reduced to using primitive methods, the Germans were unable to mount serious military assaults or even to move supplies around or to defend themselves.
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So, what you're saying is that Nazi Germany did NOT have the 'modern systems' that would have been necessary to move millions of Jews from all over Europe to four or five places in Poland and kill them?
 
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