Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[Oystein]

...
89.5% of Germans, according to a poll by the Emnid Institute, do not believe the Official Fairy Tale.
If you're from Germany, you are part of the 10.5%, and declining, that still believes it.
http://war-is-illegal.livejournal.com/117639.html

Oops - cicorp LIES again!! Colour me unsurprised! Why do you keep spreading that particular LIE?

No, Emnid did not ask "Do you believe the Official Fairy Tale". They asked "considering that the USA marched into Iraq and Afghanistan and cut down on civil rights, do you believe that the US government told the entire truth about the attacks?", and the obvious answer to THAT is "NO!", cause we all know that the US government LIED about Saddam's connections to AQ etc. Did you notice the context, and how it goes wildly beyond 9/11 itself? Even I would answer that poll with a "no". I of course fully endorse the "Official Fairy Tale".

Please acknowledge that you now know that "89.5% of Germans, according to a poll by the Emnid Institute, do not believe the Official Fairy Tale" is a shameless LIE, and pledge that you will not repeat that LIE in the future!

 

[TJM]

Appeal to Authority is not a fallacy if the person is truly an authority.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7119799&postcount=5250

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

There is no depth of folly that truthers are not going to sink down to.

There is no depth of folly that gullible Trusters are not going to sink down to.

Tony is listed in LinkedIn in the Greater Philadelphia Area.

You are so desperate to find anything wrong with his speech that you try to argue it is a lie where he lives? People may move around for different jobs. It is irrelevant to what he is saying about WTC 7 that the Official Fairy Tale is impossible.

 

[Oystein]

Appeal to Authority is not a fallacy if the person is truly an authority....

The states of NJ, NY and PA apparently do not consider Mr. Szamboti to be an authority on engineering - he is not licensed as a Professional Engineer in any state and must not sign any design documents.

Why did you LIE to us when you tried to pass him by as a P.E.?

Apart from that FAILED Appeal to FALSE Authoritry, Szamboti FAILS on the merits of his arguments.

 

[TJM]

LinkedIn

 

[Oystein]

There is no depth of folly that gullible Trusters are not going to sink down to.

Tony is listed in LinkedIn in the Greater Philadelphia Area.

You are so desperate to find anything wrong with his speech that you try to argue it is a lie where he lives? People may move around for different jobs. It is irrelevant to what he is saying about WTC 7 that the Official Fairy Tale is impossible.

You will find millions of housewives, students, panhandlers, workers, etc. in the Philly Area. So maybe he lives there now. Point is, your link did not prove your claims, it refuted your claims.

Tony, as I have PROVEN, is NOT a Professional Engineer in Philadelphia, nor New Jersey, nor New York.


About high time to retract your LIE and apologize!

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

Why do you keep spreading that particular LIE?

No, Emnid did not ask "Do you believe the Official Fairy Tale". They asked "considering that the USA marched into Iraq and Afghanistan and cut down on civil rights, do you believe that the US government told the entire truth about the attacks?", and the obvious answer to THAT is "NO!",

Good you see that. There is hope for you. The US Government is supposed to tell the entire truth, especially about reasons to go to war, when asking our troops to risk their liberty, limbs and lives.

cause we all know that the US government LIED about Saddam's connections to AQ etc.

So why do you believe the US Government's story about 9/11 when you acknowledge they lied about Saddam's connections to AQ?

Did you notice the context, and how it goes wildly beyond 9/11 itself? Even I would answer that poll with a "no".

Sehr Gut. I agree the question could have been asked in a more neutral way. The word "entire" is leading. Still, the respondents could have answered "Ja", not "Nein".

I of course fully endorse the "Official Fairy Tale".

Why would you support a Tale put out by proven liars, that does not make sense with the laws of physics?

OK, Tony is a professional engineer, meaning engineering is his profession. He has an M.E. (Mechanical Engineering) degree, not a P.E. Still he knows enough to speak on the topic of the WTC 7 collapse.

Please acknowledge that you now know that "89.5% of Germans, according to a poll by the Emnid Institute, do not believe the Official Fairy Tale"

I know about 12 Germans, and they all agree 9/11 was an inside job. Anyone who believes the OFT after reviewing the evidence, is a Dummkopf. Germans are generally pretty smart. Germany has seen what happens when the public believes a "Reichstag Fire" false flag operation.

 

[Oystein]

Good you see that. There is hope for you. The US Government is supposed to tell the entire truth, especially about reasons to go to war.

How cute, now you become condecending! But you know the old saying about the first victim of any war...
You are projecting if you assume we are gullible.

So why do you believe the US Government's story about 9/11 when you acknowledge they lied about Saddam's connections to AQ?

Because I am not taking my opinions from governments. Are you? I examine the evidence and find Bush lied about Saddam. No big surprise. I also found that the forensic evidence supports the simple theory that plane crashes and fires made the towers collapse - a story that isn't told by "the government", but by competent engineers and researchers.

Sehr Gut. I agree the question could have been asked in a more neutral way. The word "entire" is leading. Still, the respondents could have answered "Ja", not "Nein".

A different question could have been answered with "Ja". That is the content of your LIE: You LIED up the wrong question to the "nein" answer!
Please acknowledge that you now know that it isn't true that 89.5% of respondents to the Emnid poll said "no" to the overall forensic investigation results of 9/11 (19 hijackers, 4 planes, fires -> collapses), and pledge to not spread that LIE again!

Why would you support a Tale put out by proven liars, that does not make sense with the laws of physics?

The only proven liar here is YOU. I don't believe you.

I know about 12 Germans, and they all think 9/11 was an inside job, and anyone who believes the OFT is a Dummkopf. Germans are pretty smart. Germany has seen what happens when the public believes a "Reichstag Fire" false flag operation.

I know about a thousand Germans, and they all think I am nuts I am even discussing this crap with delusional whackos.

 

[Oystein]

...
Ah aren't we backpaddling already? Can't you just admit that You LIED when you claimed Szamboti is a Professional Mechanical Engineer? Admit you were wrong like a man? Are you a man with a backbone, cicorp?

Of course it doesn't matter what degree or license the man has - his claims and arguments would be wrong anyway.



What DOES matter, however, is that YOU, cicorp, tried to pass off a LIE in order to strengthen a silly Argument from FALSE Authority. Shame on you!

BUMPED for cicorp who is trying to cowardly weasle his way out of his obligation to admit he was WRONG and retract a couple of LIES.

Are you a man of honour, cicorp, or are you a dishonourable man? Can you admit you were WRONG about Tony being a Professional Engineer? Can you admit you were WRONG about the content of the Emnid poll? Or are you a coward who will never admit his lies and hopes he can get away with it? I expect a well-formed reply to these question! If none is forthcoming, my mind will be made up: cicorp is a dishonest man, a shame to his family, a disgrace to society. Man up, or shut up.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Appeal to Authority is not a fallacy if the person is truly an authority. The Court of Law system uses Expert Witnesses for this reason, to get to the truth of matters that affect liberty and even life. Go tell that to a Judge.

If I was citing an expert on biology, that would be wrong. But Tony Szamboti is an engineer, and qualified to speak on the topic. All engineers learn physics.

It does not even take a degree in physics to know that buildings cannot fall at near free fall speed, without explosives removing the columns. Even a child can see the similarities between WTC 7 and a Controlled Demolition. Only brain washed Trusters believe it was only by fire.

I just don't know how people look at the videos of the "collapses" and it doesn't register to them that something cannot demolish itself. When something collapses it simply falls. It falls into a pile of some sort. I was talking to a guy after a poker game at his house. Being the host he felt it was ok to amuse the remaining 6 people by asking about my recent trip to New Haven.

He was all over the place with sarcasm even though about a minute in he asked about the two buildings that collapsed and he was unaware that three buildings collapsed. Yet he and another were adamant that the hijackers caused everything.

He was actually boasting that he had not read anything about 9/11, internet or otherwise because people write that stuff annnd it was not on TV.

Is there a 9/11 For Dummies out there? If not there should be.

 

[Oystein]

Did you miss the parts where cicorp made FALSE statements about Szamboti's qualifications and went on to defend these FALSE statements against clear evidence? Do you believe that cicorp should stick with his FALSE statements, or would you advise him to admit he was WRONG?

Did you miss the part where cicorp made FALSE statements about a poll in Germany, and went on to defende these FALSE statements against clear evidence? Do you believe that cicorp should stick with his FALSE statements, or would you advise him to admit he was WRONG?

 

[Oystein]

If he were, do you believe that AE911truth, and Tony himself, would pass the opportunity to raise his status from "merely degreed" to "licensed"?

Or find me the state where he is a licensed P.E.
(I can tell you already that it isn't New York: Go to http://www.op.nysed.gov/opsearches.htm select "Professional Engineer", search for "Szamboti", and get the result "no more matching name records found for profession").
Do you hang on to wishful thinking a lot in your real life, too?

Clayton, did you already figure out in which neighbouring state Tony Szamboti is a Professional Engineer?
Or would you be prepared now to admit that Tony Szamboti is in fact NOT a Professional Engineer?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton, did you already figure out in which neighbouring state Tony Szamboti is a Professional Engineer?
Or would you be prepared now to admit that Tony Szamboti is in fact NOT a Professional Engineer?

Admit? you need to pull yourself together. I never said he was. I suggested that he may be listed in a neighboring state. And I could care less. I don't need to be convinced as I know what went down.

 

[Animal]

I just don't know how people look at the videos of the "collapses" and it doesn't register to them that something cannot demolish itself. When something collapses it simply falls. It falls into a pile of some sort.

If someone is totally and or willfully ignorant in building design, structural design, seismic technology, physics, chemistry, fire engineering an several other fields, I could understand how they could look at the videos of the "collapses" and have it register to them that something cannot demolish itself.

 

[Oystein]

Admit? you need to pull yourself together. I never said he was. I suggested that he may be listed in a neighboring state. And I could care less. I don't need to be convinced as I know what went down.

Clayton, I asked you more questions. It is interesting to see which ones you choose not to answer.

For a little context, cicorp made this claim:

Why do YOU lie? Tony is a professional engineer in Philadelphia.
http://www2.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=999907

I proved, by searching the license information site of the state of Pennsylvania, that this assertion is FALSE.

You rushed to cicorps defense. Upon which I asked YOU:

Did you miss the parts where cicorp made FALSE statements about Szamboti's qualifications and went on to defend these FALSE statements against clear evidence? Do you believe that cicorp should stick with his FALSE statements, or would you advise him to admit he was WRONG?
...

Now will YOU be a man and concede that cicorp was flat out WRONG about his claims of Szanboti's qualifications?
Do9es it matter to you if people on your side of the debate make FALSE statements? Do you habitually support those on your side who make FALSE statements when they make FALSE statements?

Are you surprised that the debunker side is getting frustrated with the dishonesty of truthers, when they so seldomly man up and admit when they were WRONG?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore
He could be a member in a neighboring state.

If he were, do you believe that AE911truth, and Tony himself, would pass the opportunity to raise his status from "merely degreed" to "licensed"?

Or find me the state where he is a licensed P.E.
(I can tell you already that it isn't New York: Go to http://www.op.nysed.gov/opsearches.htm select "Professional Engineer", search for "Szamboti", and get the result "no more matching name records found for profession").
Do you hang on to wishful thinking a lot in your real life, too?

What are you babbling about?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

You cite articles that make you look like a Gullible Truster.

I thought "bedunker"^{ergo TM} was the latest name for people who don't agree with the truth movement^TM. Look I really don't care for labels that much but you might want to get together with ergo^TM to see about coming up with some consistency. K thnx

Tip: Cite articles that support your position.

That would be pretty much every major engineering publication ever produced as a report for the WTC including but not limited to the CBUTH, AIA, NIST, Purdue, among many, many others. You are of course free to cite your own sources as well, it just so happens your sources have long been discreditted as incompetents and you may want to review their credibility before using them again. Of course that depends on how well you yourself know about topics in the related fields, which everything I've seen you post so far indicates no such experience or study

 

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore
He could be a member in a neighboring state.

What are you babbling about?

I am talking about the fact that cicorp made an unsubstantiated claim when jhe said Szamboti is a Professional Engineer, and a FALSE claim when he said Szamboti is a Professional Engineer in Philadelphia.

Are with me thus far?


cicorp has not provided supporting evidemce
YOU have not provided supporting evidence.

Agreed so far?


I have proven that Szamboti is not a P.E. in Pennsylvania, his state of residency according to LinkedIn
I have proven that Szamboti is not a P.E. in New Jersey, his state of residency according to AE911lies.
I have proven that Szamboti is not a P.E. in new York.

Can you acknowledge this?


I have proven that AE911lies does not categorize Szamboti as a licensed P.E.

Is this right or wrong, Clayton?


So, Clayton, are you with me when I state that ALL the evidence provided so far shows that Szamboti is NOT a P.E.?
Do you agree that cicorp was flat out WRONG with his claim about Szamboti being a P.E. in Philly?


So please, Clayton, which statement do you consider, for the momentm more likely to be true:
- Szamboti is a Professional Engineer
- Szamboti is NOT a Professional Engineer
??


Please try to be honest - answer the questions. All of them. I am so sick of you truther types weaseling and dodging and jumping around just to avoid admitting one of your lot was simply and evidently WRONG! Really it is not such a big deal to admit that one was wrong about some detail, and I am fully prepared to admit that it doesn't really matter much if Szamboti has a license in any state or not. But you guys are so determined to defende simple WRONG claims! Why don't you see how that HURTS your cause? Time and again, I ahve seen debunkers admit IMMEDIATELY that they stood corrected when someone called them on an error and provided supporting evidence. Why does this so rarely happen on your side?

 

[Childlike Empress]

It's you who's weaseling, Oystein. Your pathetic ad-hom drama now spans a whole page. cicorp asked you to stop it. We all know who Tony is.

He is an engineer as a profession. That's sufficient. Get over it.
Examine what he is saying in the speech, instead of desperate ad hominems.

 

[Oystein]

Alright alright. I am not sure if this is with the MA, but I don't care ate this point.

@ cicorp and Clayton Moore: I am offering you real money on a bet!

Here is the deal:

1. I bet that Tony Szamboti is not a licensed, active Professional Engineer in any US state
2. You bet that Tony Szamboti is a licensed, active Professional Engineer in at least one US state
3. If you accept the bet, you must promise to pay me US$20,-- via PayPal if you lose
4. I promise that I will pay you US$200,-- (10 times your wager) via PayPal if I lose the bet
5. You win the bet if you can demonstrate the active P.E. license number for Tony Szamboti on the relevant website of a US state (usually a .gov site). Post the license number along with a link to the official license lookup page here
6. I win the bet if you don't provide Szamboti's P.E. license number with in 48 hours from the time stamp of this posting.
7. Once you accept the bet (publicly in this forum), you must PM me, so we can exchange PayPal details. Needless to say, you must have a PayPal account.
8. [ETA]If I lose, and more than one accepted the bet, only the first of you to post the license number here will receive my $200, obviously
9. The bet is also open to any other apologist of TM crap.[/ETA]

Is this a fair deal?