Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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A W Smith said:
take a simple shovel full of sand. label each grain of sand. toss it up in the air, create a computer program that will accurately predict the collision of each grain of sand including how many collisions and the effect it would have on the redirection of those individual labeled sand grains. create a map predicting the dispersion and landing location of each of those grains of sand. Should be very simple for you mister "computer programmer for a few years" because those grains wont be damaged or lose mass. And they only travel about 10 feet, not 1000. This is a simplified equivalent of what you are ignorantly assuming NIST or anyone, for that matter, could accurately model.
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You forgot to add in the light wind gusts :D
 
Oystein said:
Why do you start off your post with a lie? Szamboti is not a Professional Engineer.
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Szamboti is a mechanical engineer, that much is established. Now whether he's competent in structural engineering... well, in one of my exchanges with him he insisted on treating the strength of the core by imagining it as a single, large 1 inch thickness column (measuring length and width by the dimensions of the tower cores). I need to find that post, it was actually quite bizarre
 
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Grizzly Bear said:
Szamboti is a mechanical engineer, that much is established. Now whether he's competent in structural engineering... well, in one of my exchanges with him he insisted on treating the strength of the core by imagining it as a single, large 1 inch thickness column (measuring length and width by the dimensions of the tower cores). I need to find that post, it was actually quite bizarre
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Yes, he has a BS in Mechanical Engineering. But he is not a "Professional" Engineer (P.E.). Here is his listing at ae911truth.org:
http://www2.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=999907
You see even AE don't list him under "engineers" but "engineering professionals". He is from New Jersey, and here is the latest (2010) NJ roster of Professional Engineers:
http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/pels/pelroste.pdf
It contains no Mr. Szamboti.

That's why cicorp started off his post with a blatant lie while trying to make an Argument from Authority.
 
I see where the conversation was at now...
THough it still doesn't change my opinion that his lie doesn't even do him the justice of making it sound better :D
 
Oystein said:
Yes, he has a BS in Mechanical Engineering. But he is not a "Professional" Engineer (P.E.). Here is his listing at ae911truth.org:
http://www2.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=999907
You see even AE don't list him under "engineers" but "engineering professionals". He is from New Jersey, and here is the latest (2010) NJ roster of Professional Engineers:
http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/pels/pelroste.pdf
It contains no Mr. Szamboti.

That's why cicorp started off his post with a blatant lie while trying to make an Argument from Authority.
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He could be a member in a neighboring state.
 
Clayton Moore said:
He could be a member in a neighboring state.
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If he were, do you believe that AE911truth, and Tony himself, would pass the opportunity to raise his status from "merely degreed" to "licensed"?

Or find me the state where he is a licensed P.E.
(I can tell you already that it isn't New York: Go to http://www.op.nysed.gov/opsearches.htm select "Professional Engineer", search for "Szamboti", and get the result "no more matching name records found for profession").
Do you hang on to wishful thinking a lot in your real life, too?
 
cicorp said:
Professional Mechanical Engineer Tony Szamboti mentioned in his speech at the University of Hartford that NIST's experiment set the simulation so that WTC 7's steel thermal conductivity was zero. That means it did not dissipate any heat, as normal steel would, thus creating an artificially high temperature of steel.

http://911blogger.com/news/2011-04-...why-nist-report-non-explanatory-tony-szamboti

He also said:

"Each floor of the WTC 7 was the size of a football field." (about 100 yards wide)
"Nobody does a failure analysis by not saving physical evidence. Nobody." (Steel evidence was removed))
"The destruction of evidence warrants an investigation in and of itself." (tampering with a Federal crime scene.)
"There were sheer studs on the girders" (reinforcements that the NIST computer model did not have)
"NIST's model did not allow for heat dissipation through the steel" (NIST said steel thermal conductivity was zero, unrealistic)
"Concrete has the same differential coefficient of expansion as steel" (NIST model did not, which tears concrete from steel)
"The vertical load capacity of a beam when it has a slight local buckling is generally not upset." (it still can support a floor)
"They didn't test this" (NIST did no experiments with physical steel, just computer models)
The beams had 6 times the strength needed to resist buckling.
"NIST is telling us that the entire interior collapsed before the exterior...ludicrous"
"The NIST report is unfortunately, thoroughly bogus."
"Fires could not have caused the collapse of this enormous building."
If we don't expose the criminals of 9/11, they may go on and commit other crimes.
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You do not want to hang your hat on Tony. He is a proven liar.
 
triforcharity said:
I had all the math done, and then I realized that you were being sarcastic!!
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I just included the numbers to show it is not a mass movement.
Unfortunately I am signing on to my vessel tomorrow, so no lecture for me.
It would have been kind of fun to see them live.
 
Oystein said:
Got proof? State and license number?
Or do you not know the specific legal meaning of the term "Professional Engineer"?
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Do you? He is an engineer as a profession. That's sufficient. Get over it.
Examine what he is saying in the speech, instead of desperate ad hominems.
The point is, how did a strong building come down at nearly speed of gravity?
Why did NIST make up such a stupid story as WTC 7 collapsing inside before outside?

89.5% of Germans, according to a poll by the Emnid Institute, do not believe the Official Fairy Tale.
If you're from Germany, you are part of the 10.5%, and declining, that still believes it.
http://war-is-illegal.livejournal.com/117639.html
 
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beachnut said:
The structural engineer of the WTC towers said aircraft impacts and fires destroyed the WTC towers.
http://www.nae.edu/Publications/The...ecurity/ReflectionsontheWorldTradeCenter.aspx
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You cite articles that make you look like a Gullible Truster. What are you doing on a forum for Critical Thinkers? In the article YOU cite, Leslie Robertson says:

When the two towers were finished, the World Trade Center stood proud, strong, and tall. Indeed, with little effort, the towers shrugged off the efforts of terrorist bombers in 1993 to bring them down. The events of September 11, however, are not well understood by me . . . and perhaps cannot really be understood by anyone.
​

Tip: Cite articles that support your position.
 
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cicorp said:
Do you? He is an engineer as a profession. That's sufficient. Get over it.
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Appeal to authority noted and rejected.

cicorp said:
Examine what he is saying in the speech, instead of desperate ad hominems.
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I don't see where Oystein ad-hommed anyone. Would you clarify that?

cicorp said:
The point is, how did a strong building come down at nearly speed of gravity?
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It didn't, so you have no point.

cicorp said:
Why did NIST make up such a stupid story as WTC 7 collapsing inside before outside?
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It clearly did, but truthers who are accustomed to accepting the last six seconds of the collapse have always had a problem with getting their heads around that fact, as it totally messes up their delusions. Can't have that, now can we?
 
cicorp said:
Why do YOU lie? Or are you just stupid? Tony is a professional engineer in Philadelphia.
http://www2.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=999907
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There is no depth of folly that truthers are not going to sink down to.

You link to his profil at AE911lies. Let's where it says he is a Professional Engineer... hm hm OOPS! Itr doesn't say so at all! No License number of any state... Instead, he is titled "Engineering Professionals (Degreed)", which is AE911lies' way of saying "oops, sorry, this guy is not a Professional Engineer", cause you see, they have a Category for Professional Engineers, that are duly licensed, as one must be to be legally called a "Professional Engineer".

So, PE in Philadelphia? Pennsylvania? Let's see what the great State of Pennsylvania has to say about this allegation... Go to:
http://www.licensepa.state.pa.us/
Select "License Type = Professional Engineer"
Type in: "Last Name = Szamboti"
Click on: "Search"
Oops!! The search comes up empty! There is no Professional Engineer by the name of Szamboti in the entire state of Pennsylvania!

I already gave you the lookup links for P.E.s in New Jersey (AE911lies doesn't place Tony in Philly - Oops! Cicorp lied again? - but in NJ) and New York. Oops! No Professional Engineer named Szamboti in either NJ or NY! Do I have proof? Yes, I provided proof!
Where is your proof, cicorp? The link you provided refutes your own LIE!


cicorp said:
Do you? He is an engineer as a profession. That's sufficient. Get over it.
Examine what he is saying in the speech, instead of desperate ad hominems.
The point is, how did a strong building come down at nearly speed of gravity?
Why did NIST make up such a stupid story as WTC 7 collapsing inside before outside?
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Ah aren't we backpaddling already? Can't you just admit that You LIED when you claimed Szamboti is a Professional Mechanical Engineer? Admit you were wrong like a man? Are you a man with a backbone, cicorp?

Of course it doesn't matter what degree or license the man has - his claims and arguments would be wrong anyway.



What DOES matter, however, is that YOU, cicorp, tried to pass off a LIE in order to strengthen a silly Argument from FALSE Authority. Shame on you!
 
Courts of Law use Appeals to Authority

AJM8125 said:
Appeal to authority noted and rejected.
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Appeal to Authority is not a fallacy if the person is truly an authority. The Court of Law system uses Expert Witnesses for this reason, to get to the truth of matters that affect liberty and even life. Go tell that to a Judge.

If I was citing an expert on biology, that would be wrong. But Tony Szamboti is an engineer, and qualified to speak on the topic. All engineers learn physics.

It does not even take a degree in physics to know that buildings cannot fall at near free fall speed, without explosives removing the columns. Even a child can see the similarities between WTC 7 and a Controlled Demolition. Only brain washed Trusters believe it was only by fire.
 
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