Merged Molten metal observations

[Java Man]

For some reason are you visualizing liquid acid being continuously poured onto the steel? I've seen batteries eat through their case and the machines with far less. Most of the damage comes from after the liquid electrolyte evaporates and leaves a sulfur coating on everything.

You mean SO4 from the acid right?

 

[beachnut]

Did you see the document a member of your camp put up?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/metallurgy/WTC_apndxC.htm

Find anything odd with it? I mean odd with your acid theory.

That paper is hosted by a failed 911 truther who thinks the ceiling tiles had thermite in them, set off with radio control fuses. He is nuts.

The paper says it wants to study why the steel corroded, making acid a possible thing to study perhaps.
The paper says this, which make it useless for 911 truth claims.

The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified. The rate of corrosion is also unknown. It is possible that this is the result of long-term heating in the ground following the collapse of the buildings. It is also possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure. A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires.

You posted things about thermite which left out the thermite; do you read the stuff you post, or the paper above? No, you make up lies about thermite and think thermal is thermate. It was funny.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/275/5306/1621.abstract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V6S-3WDC4CB-9&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F1996&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1726876783&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a79ff03b520df13d26d667d87a86c021&searchtype=a

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005AGUFMMR13A0083S

No thermite, next time read your source first.
14 gigapascals was about 400°C you have no clue what this means.
Fe---FeS eutectic temperatures to 620 kbar - you can't explain how this relates to 911. Why not tell us how many psi 650 kbar are and how that relates to sea level pressure on 911? Make my day.
The metallic cores of the terrestrial planets - yes, only 911 truth can take cores of terrestrial planets and relate them to 911. How did you do it?

In two posts you have made it clear you have no science background, and no evidence to support your claims.

 

[alienentity]

Did you see the document a member of your camp put up?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/metallurgy/WTC_apndxC.htm

Find anything odd with it? I mean odd with your acid theory.

I realize you're desperate to deflect away from the fact that your claims are not supported by any scientific evidence, but you've lied about no steel being recovered. That's Strike one against any credibility you might have had.

Strike 2 is the fact that you've again failed to produce any scientific evidence for therm*te causing eutectic erosion of steel, and Strike 3 is that you've lied again in claiming that it is 'your acid theory'. (referring to me)

Please find any post where I mention acid. I have always, and continue to refer to this as a eutectic erosion, which is a hot corrosive process described in the paper you linked to as 'The thinning of the steel occurred by a high-temperture corrosion due to a combination of oxidation and sulfidation.'

Any mention of acid in the Barnett paper?
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/metallurgy/WTC_apndxC.htm

So apart from repeatedly lying and misrepresenting the facts, you have failed to produce any tangible evidence to support your nonsense theory (well, it's not actually your theory, you're just parroting it from some other pseudo-scientific nitwit )

 

[alienentity]

Beach, the paper doesn't mention even once the possibility that there could have been thermitic compound involved. The questions posed are what the source of sulphur might have been, at what rate the corrosion occurred, and 'A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires'

That truthers can read a document like this and miss the obvious implication of the fire in this corrosive process is and amazing example of scientific incompetence and self-delusion, IMO.

 

[Java Man]

Please find any post where I mention acid. I have always, and continue to refer to this as a eutectic erosion, which is a hot corrosive process described in the paper you linked to as 'The thinning of the steel occurred by a high-temperture corrosion due to a combination of oxidation and sulfidation.'

Well I never said you did, but others have. Do you want to split the theory into the acid supporting sub-crew and the eutectic reaction sub-crew (which includes you)?

 

[beachnut]

Well I never said you did, but others have. Do you want to split the theory into the acid supporting sub-crew and the eutectic reaction sub-crew (which includes you)?

You have no idea what a eutectic is after posting proof you have no clue what science is. Proof.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/275/5306/1621.abstract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V6S-3WDC4CB-9&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F1996&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1726876783&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a79ff03b520df13d26d667d87a86c021&searchtype=a

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005AGUFMMR13A0083S

This post proves you have no clue, no capability to understand the issue. Your post, complete nonsense.

 

[alienentity]

Well I never said you did, but others have. Do you want to split the theory into the acid supporting sub-crew and the eutectic reaction sub-crew (which includes you)?

You mean you deny saying that you did, but you did.....

I hope you at least believe some of the things you're writing - no one else does.

 

[Java Man]

You mean you deny saying that you did, but you did.....

I hope you at least believe some of the things you're writing - no one else does.

You didn't answer my question. Clearly if I did say you supported acid it was because you're on the debunker camp. Now if what you're saying is that each one of you has a different theory. Then we can handle it as different theories.

What would be the source of all that sulfur required to produce the reaction?

 

[Justin39640]

Well I never said you did, but others have. Do you want to split the theory into the acid supporting sub-crew and the eutectic reaction sub-crew (which includes you)?

No one said that. I compared the results to the way acid from batteries attacks metal. Simply comparing corrosion. You're the one who wanted to know how much battery acid do you need to melt a steel beam.

 

[Java Man]

No one said that. I compared the results to the way acid from batteries attacks metal. Simply comparing corrosion. You're the one who wanted to know how much battery acid do you need to melt a steel beam.

Wrong. Lefty says so here http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7102385&postcount=758

And you follow up to my comment with this: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7102614&postcount=762

Now you might not have meant to say it was acid in WTC 7, but my you certainly were not clear about that.

Then there is this http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7103613&postcount=766, by jaydeehess

"There are two senarios that are equally valid;
1) that the corrorsion is the result of years of attack by acid deposits which originate from the city air itself. Unprotected steel, concrete,marble, limestone all are known to be affected by such attacks especially if exposed to rainwater.(acid rain)
2) the corrorsion took place during the time when the steel was in the fire and or rubble fire AND in contact with a material with a moderate to high sulphur content such as gypsum board, pvc piping or several other candidates."

So clearly acid has been on the table as a possible scenario.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Where was the Thermite? Who planted it? How did they plant it without being seen? How much of it? How was it ignited? How did those planting it know which floor the aircraft would hit?

 

[Java Man]

Where was the Thermite?

On the floor joints with the inner and outer walls.

Who planted it? How did they plant it without being seen?

People who had access to the building. That's why it's called a conspiracy, get it?

How much of it? How was it ignited? How did those planting it know which floor the aircraft would hit?

Not much as a small charge can destroy the bolts. They would be ignited with remote triggered devices. And the people who planted it didn't know which floors would be hit. But that's not a required piece of information as the collapse mechanism is made redundant by having many floors that can initiate the collapse

 

[triforcharity]

They would be ignited with remote triggered devices.

Problem. Even the FDNY radios had problems in the towers. How do you get around that?

And the people who planted it didn't know which floors would be hit. But that's not a required piece of information as the collapse mechanism is made redundant by having many floors that can initiate the collapse

Well, they did a good job, because of the fact that the COLLAPSE began AT the impact point.

 

[Java Man]

Problem. Even the FDNY radios had problems in the towers. How do you get around that?

You put a transmitter closer by. There are this things called repeaters you know?

Well, they did a good job, because of the fact that the COLLAPSE began AT the impact point.

We've been over this and I've shown you puff of smoke coming from floors above the impact point. This has been handled in another thread and I've laid my position there. You can release the floor panels above the impact point and initiate the collapse there. Which would make it look as if the collapse initiated at the impact point. But really initiated above.

 

[Java Man]

Now getting back to the matter of the metal. It seems very improbable that spontaneous local reactions could have produced the amount of material to erode the beam like that. And on the other hand hundreds of UPS batteries should have leaked all their acid on just the right beam. Too much of a coincidence.

 

[NoahFence]

Problem. Even the FDNY radios had problems in the towers. How do you get around that?

Magic.


Well, they did a good job, because of the fact that the COLLAPSE began AT the impact point.

Irrelevant. The pilot knew exactly how to turn the aircraft while inside the building so as to avoid hitting the columns or supports that had therm*te taped to them. These people aren't amateurs, you know!

 

[Grizzly Bear]

By conflating the WTC "molten steel stream" with the WTC 7 sample you're hurting your case far more than you are helping it

 

[Java Man]

By conflating the WTC "molten steel stream" with the WTC 7 sample you're hurting your case far more than you are helping it

I appreciate your concern for my cause. To return you the favor I'd add that your time would be better spent coming up with the calculations for the acid required to destroy the column instead of worrying about my case.

 

[fess]

You put a transmitter closer by. There are this things called repeaters you know?



We've been over this and I've shown you puff of smoke coming from floors above the impact point. This has been handled in another thread and I've laid my position there. You can release the floor panels above the impact point and initiate the collapse there. Which would make it look as if the collapse initiated at the impact point. But really initiated above.

And it gets deeper, deeper, and deeper... with no evidence to support it. Just how many people were involved in setting up the most tragic event to happen in our country? Thousands of people so far. Unless of course, you are suggesting that these people were good at multi-tasking. You know… the same guys that wired up the aircraft guidance systems also wired up the WTC complex. Still into the thousands though.

 

[Java Man]

And it gets deeper, deeper, and deeper... with no evidence to support it. Just how many people were involved in setting up the most tragic event to happen in our country? Thousands of people so far. Unless of course, you are suggesting that these people were good at multi-tasking. You know… the same guys that wired up the aircraft guidance systems also wired up the WTC complex. Still into the thousands though.

Got no idea at this time. Would you care getting back on track regarding the molten metal. Any idea regarding the amount of acid required? I already posted my numbers. What are yours?