Merged Molten metal observations

Java Man said:
So it was acid after all. How much of it?
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Got to ask questions you can't answer yourself to avoid the fact you have no evidence for melted steel. Are you having problems with the word corrosion? The corroded steel in question which has people who can't comprehend what they read making up delusions.
The sulfidation attack of steel grain boundaries accelerated the corrosion and erosion of the steel.
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Ironic a truther hosts the paper which debunks melted steel. The paper you can't comprehend, shows your melted steel was not melted, it was corroded, making your melted steel claims false. RIF

You failed to take a chemical engineering course, it takes a semester or so, you have not spent anytime researching 911 past the failed 911 truth delusions. It shows.

You insist on avoiding evidence and asking questions which prove your ignorance on the subject only contribute to the eternal failure of 911 truth, and your claims. Your anti-intellectual approach makes it clear you are not hear to learn, you are here to display why and how 911 truth fails. You are doing a good job.
 
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Dave Rogers said:
You need to try to understand the word "better".

Dave
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I do and I'm trying to understand where all that acid came from by first understanding how much acid is being required. Surely being a "better" explanation the value should be easy to obtain and reasonable. Do you have it? Or should I do the calculations?
 
Go ahead and do the calculations. Be sure to let us know how you determined exactly how much metal was dissolved.
 
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Java Man said:
You are correct. Simply because there is no recovered steel. Just a few odd pieces here and there. Yet the theory that that piece of metal could have ended like that is also very unlikely. How is your calculation for the amount of acid required coming along?
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Oops, you lied there. That's not very nice. Hundreds of thousands of tons of steel was 'recovered' from GZ and lots of it was examined. (I mean, how else d'you suppose the steel left GZ? Did it all just float out on its own? LOL)

Eventually all of it, save for whatever pieces or parts were saved for posterity, was collected and recycled.

But there never has been a single shred of evidence that any of that steel was melted or partially melted in the manner that therm*te would have done.

Ergo, there is not, nor was there ever any direct evidence of therm*te.
 
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alienentity said:
Please show an example of eutectic erosion caused by any form of therm*te, in the scientific literature.
Cite any paper which demonstrates your claim.


The therm*te argument is exceedingly weak for a number of reasons, including the simple fact that there is no evidence it can cause eutectic erosion of steel (which is not a melting process, doesn't occur at the temp which therm*te burns at, etc).
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Bump for Javaman

Please cite any scientific paper which shows therm*te causes eutectic erosion.........

(sound of crickets)
 
alienentity said:
Bump for Javaman

Please cite any scientific paper which shows therm*te causes eutectic erosion.........

(sound of crickets)
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Would those be the same crickets that are accompanying the wait for his full draft? They must have sore knees by now.
 
Java Man said:
It has everything to do with "2) the corrorsion took place during the time when the steel was in the fire and or rubble fire AND in contact with a material with a moderate to high sulphur content such as gypsum board, pvc piping or several other candidates."

You see you have to go through a set of equations that show the reactions that lead to free sulfur or sulfuric acid in that rubble and in sufficient amounts to do that damage.

So the amount of acid is a relevant value. Because it's the amount of material you'll need to produce such damage. Or gypsum or pvc piping or whatever you want to call it.
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OK, I might work on that for you sometime.

Now you will also be working on supplying pictures of thermate 'corroded' steel that is consistent with this particular piece of steel from WTC 7 will you?
Do let us be seeing any slag on your new pics now.....

I also notice that you completely ignored the first senario, that the steel had corroded over decades due to , simply put, acid rain.

I just might be able to find pictures of corrorsion to steel, limestone, and marble due specifically to exposure to rain or run off, or simply metropolitan smog(dry acidic deposition). Its a known problem from Bejing to London to Venice, New York and San Francisco.

It could also be a combination of the two, a coating of dry aciditic compounds on the steel that is then raised to high temperature acellerating the granulation and flaking, ie. corrosion.

What it cannot be is an illustration of any incindiary acting on the steel since it was NOT melted!
 
Java Man said:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/275/5306/1621.abstract
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An iron-sulfur compound (Fe3S2) was synthesized at pressures greater than 14 gigapascals in the system Fe-FeS. The formation of Fe3S2 changed the melting relations from a simple binary eutectic system to a binary system with an intermediate compound that melted incongruently. The eutectic temperature in the system at 14 gigapascals was about 400°C lower than that extrapolated from Usselman's data, implying that previous thermal models of Fe-rich planetary cores could overestimate core temperature. If it is found in a meteorite, the Fe3S2 phase could also be used to infer the minimum size of a parent body.
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14 GIGAPASCALS!!!!
Meteorites!

and NO thermate..........

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...a79ff03b520df13d26d667d87a86c021&searchtype=a
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620Kilobars!
and again NO thermate!

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005AGUFMMR13A0083S
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The cores of planets and ,,,, wait for it,,,, NO thermate.

Yes in all of the above iron forms a eutectic solution with sulphur. NO ONE IS disputing that JM. What we are asking for is an example of an incindiary of your choice, specifically thermate, corroding rather than melting , steel.

ETA:: oh yeah, and at sea level pressures.
 
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Java Man said:
I do and I'm trying to understand where all that acid came from by first understanding how much acid is being required. Surely being a "better" explanation the value should be easy to obtain and reasonable. Do you have it? Or should I do the calculations?
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Oh ,you're willing to do the calcs.

Fine by me, its been 30 years since my last chem class.
 
Java Man said:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/275/5306/1621.abstract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...a79ff03b520df13d26d667d87a86c021&searchtype=a

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005AGUFMMR13A0083S
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Java...... let's be charitable and say that you either don't understand what your own proposal is, or you are just wasting everyone's time and are a troll. Fine, it could be either.

But the contention (by truthers, and by yourself as well) is that eutectic erosion of structural steel must have been caused by some form of therm*te.
It stands to reason that if you are claiming that this is the ONLY possible cause, then you should be able to offer some cases where it has been documented to do so.

We know what eutectics are, now you are going to have to come up with scientific evidence which supports your specific claim about therm*te.

The topic is - eutectic erosion of steel. Got it?

Still waiting for a single scientific paper which supports your claim.

Don't wait too much longer, even the crickets will die of old age :)
 
jaydeehess said:
The cores of planets and ,,,, wait for it,,,, NO thermate.

Yes in all of the above iron forms a eutectic solution with sulphur. NO ONE IS disputing that JM. What we are asking for is an example of an incindiary of your choice, specifically thermate, corroding rather than melting , steel.

ETA:: oh yeah, and at sea level pressures.
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Well thermate is just a label for a certain mixture that contains elements that produce the binary system depicted in those articles.
 
alienentity said:
Java...... let's be charitable and say that you either don't understand what your own proposal is, or you are just wasting everyone's time and are a troll. Fine, it could be either.

But the contention (by truthers, and by yourself as well) is that eutectic erosion of structural steel must have been caused by some form of therm*te.
It stands to reason that if you are claiming that this is the ONLY possible cause, then you should be able to offer some cases where it has been documented to do so.

We know what eutectics are, now you are going to have to come up with scientific evidence which supports your specific claim about therm*te.

The topic is - eutectic erosion of steel. Got it?

Still waiting for a single scientific paper which supports your claim.

Don't wait too much longer, even the crickets will die of old age :)
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Did you see the document a member of your camp put up?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/metallurgy/WTC_apndxC.htm

Find anything odd with it? I mean odd with your acid theory.
 
jaydeehess said:
Oh ,you're willing to do the calcs.

Fine by me, its been 30 years since my last chem class.
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I'd say you'd need about 3 liters of battery acid per kg of steel you want to make disappear. If each foot of those beams weights about 10kg. You'd need 30 liters of acid. That's a whole lot of acid rain.
 
Java Man said:
I'd say you'd need about 3 liters of battery acid per kg of steel you want to make disappear. If each foot of those beams weights about 10kg. You'd need 30 liters of acid. That's a whole lot of acid rain.
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*at atmospheric pressure and room temperature...

For some reason are you visualizing liquid acid being continuously poured onto the steel? I've seen batteries eat through their case and the machines with far less. Most of the damage comes from after the liquid electrolyte evaporates and leaves a sulfur coating on everything.

batteryg.png

Far from the worst case I've ever seen but you can see the corrosion damage to the bottom of the lifting eye.
 
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