Progressive Radio Rants -- Minimum Wage

[thaiboxerken]

And then there are jobs that can pay below the minimum wage by claiming that tips make up for it. Are those factored in? Also, if 99% pay above minimum wage, why fight raising it?

 

[WildCat]

Except we'd have to factor in the state min wages in order to get a clear picture.

Do you make minimum wage? If not, why not? What's stopping your employer from paying you minimum wage?

 

[WildCat]

And then there are jobs that can pay below the minimum wage by claiming that tips make up for it. Are those factored in?

Yes ken, perhaps you should read the source before spouting off?

Also, if 99% pay above minimum wage, why fight raising it?

If you raise the minimum wage above the market wage all you will end up doing is increasing unemployment, increasing the rate of inflation, or some combination of those. What you won't be doing is raising the standard of living for low-skilled workers, if you could do that we're back to the old "why not raise it to $100/hr so everyone is rich" scenario.

So what generally happens is government raises minimum wage just a little, affecting just a tiny percentage of workers, so the effects of the raise are masked by other economic variables. This is enough to satisfy the economically ignorant while doing little real harm to the economy.

At the end of the day the government can dictate wages no more successfully than they can dictate the price of computers and automobiles. How did Nixon's wage and price controls work out?

 

[thaiboxerken]

If you raise the minimum wage above the market wage all you will end up doing is increasing unemployment, increasing the rate of inflation, or some combination of those.

Really? Raising the wage on 1% of the workforce will do all of that?

 

[WildCat]

Really? Raising the wage on 1% of the workforce will do all of that?

No, but if you raised it so it affects, say, 10% of the workforce you would likely see some effects.

Which just repeats what I've posted earlier, try to read with comprehension next time instead of instantly reaching out to your friend Mr. Straw.

 

[thaiboxerken]

But I thought only 1% of the workforce makes minimum wage. How would raising that wage effect 10%?

 

[Taarkin]

But I thought only 1% of the workforce makes minimum wage. How would raising that wage effect 10%?

If it's $5 and you raise it to $6, it affects people making $5.01, $5.02, etc.

 

[thaiboxerken]

If it's $5 and you raise it to $6, it affects people making $5.01, $5.02, etc.

So what percentage of people make less than a dollar above minimum wage?

 

[The_Animus]

Then of course there are those who don't think of wealth as zero sum as the theoretical left and right you speak of in the above. For those people, it isn't necessary to obsess about how to cut up the cake or worry too much about redistribution either from the poor to the rich or from the rich to the poor, but are simply pro cake as a general concept with the assumption that more cake is better for everybody, whether they are rich or poor.

Wealth doesn't have to be a zero sum game to redistribute it. Over time there is more wealth, but wealth is relative. So even though the average citizen may have more today than the average citizen of 100 years ago, the difference in proportion of wealth between the average citizen and the rich class has stayed the same or grown more distant.

Based on how our society operates it doesn't seem like anyone in government is for producing more cake in general. Or they are just incompetent as to how to do it.

 

[The_Animus]

All this talk of minimum wage.

If a company cannot do business while paying its employees a living wage, maybe the company shouldn't be in business at all.

 

[Dorian Gray]

No, it doesn't. Most of it goes back to Japan. We become a $100 a day drug dealer supporting a $110 dollar jones.

Most of it after the workers, local suppliers, freighters, delivery people, dealers, dealer repair shops and taxes, you mean?

No. I still sends money to the top of the food chain and, to make it worse, the top is in Japan. They are not building Toyotas for themselves, like Kikoman does soy sauce. If they were, they wouldl have the steering wheels on the right.

If the money is going to a fat cat and not to you, what difference does it make which country it is? If it was an American company, you'd be paying for the car AND paying for the company with your taxes.

You make no sense. And on top of that, you haven't answered my question about why it's okay for you to avoid paying a minimum wage to people who work for you, but not okay for a company to avoid paying minimum wage to people who work for it.

 

[Ziggurat]

If a company cannot do business while paying its employees a living wage, maybe the company shouldn't be in business at all.

Why not?

Why is it really better to have people not working, and certain products or services not exist, then to have those people working and those products existing?

As I've said before in this thread, every legitimate goal of minimum wage can be achieved through other means.

 

[Coffee]

All this talk of minimum wage.

If a company cannot do business while paying its employees a living wage, maybe the company shouldn't be in business at all.

The key being living wage. In small towns and rural areas the living wage may be less than the mandated state or federal minimum wage. There are places in this country where someone can live on less than $7.25 per hour. It is possible. I live in such an area but living is all they can do. There won't be any money for extras. For that they would have to do something else.

 

[The_Animus]

Why not?

Why is it really better to have people not working, and certain products or services not exist, then to have those people working and those products existing?

If a product or service can only be provided if the persons laboring to provide said product must be paid a wage unable to support a basic standard of living, then the customers and owners are benefiting at the expense of the laborer.

Basically paying the worker a wage which allows them to support a basic standard of living results in the cost and therefor price of the product to be too high for consumers. In such an instance the technology or whatever is simply not at a point in which the product should be produced.

This does not equate to doing nothing. Not having that particular job doesn't imply that no other job exists or can exist and therefor everyone sits around. That is a false dichotomy.

The key being living wage. In small towns and rural areas the living wage may be less than the mandated state or federal minimum wage. There are places in this country where someone can live on less than $7.25 per hour. It is possible. I live in such an area but living is all they can do. There won't be any money for extras. For that they would have to do something else.

By living wage I don't mean just enough to survive. At our level of science and technology that is setting the bar a bit low. We can achieve better.

 

[Ziggurat]

If a product or service can only be provided if the persons laboring to provide said product must be paid a wage unable to support a basic standard of living, then the customers and owners are benefiting at the expense of the laborer.

Why is a low-wage job better than no job at all?

This does not equate to doing nothing. Not having that particular job doesn't imply that no other job exists or can exist and therefor everyone sits around. That is a false dichotomy.

Actually, it DOES equate to that. If someone can get a better job, then they will. We're rather explicitly talking about the people who can't get better jobs.

By living wage I don't mean just enough to survive. At our level of science and technology that is setting the bar a bit low. We can achieve better.

Indeed we can. But we don't need minimum wage laws to do that. You want to support the working poor? Don't prevent them from getting jobs because the jobs don't pay enough. You can achieve your desired ends more directly (and without targeting middle-class teenagers who don't need help) by other means, like expanding the earned income credit. The minimum wage is piss-poor economics, and half-assed social welfare.

 

[WildCat]

But I thought only 1% of the workforce makes minimum wage. How would raising that wage effect 10%?

You really can't figure out how if it's raised enough it will affect 10% of worker pay?

This is 3rd grade math ken.

 

[WildCat]

All this talk of minimum wage.

If a company cannot do business while paying its employees a living wage, maybe the company shouldn't be in business at all.

Thus, you've created more unemployment. You are agreeing with me.

 

[WildCat]

If a product or service can only be provided if the persons laboring to provide said product must be paid a wage unable to support a basic standard of living, then the customers and owners are benefiting at the expense of the laborer.

leftysergeant ran away from this question like a scared schoolgirl from a spider, maybe you'll answer it!

What about the 16 year old looking for spending money? What about the retired person just looking for some extra cash?

The former is supported by their parents, the latter by SS, maybe a pension or retirement savings. Neither is looking for a job to "make a living" on. What about the college student looking for a part-time job so she can buy textbooks?

And has already been mentioned, a "living wage" varies wildly in different parts of the country. In some places you can rent a 3 bedroom house for $400/month, while in other places you couldn't rent a parking spot for that.

 

[thaiboxerken]

You really can't figure out how if it's raised enough it will affect 10% of worker pay?

This is 3rd grade math ken.

Right, if we raised the minimum wage to $50/hour, it would affect a large portion of the population. You seem to be arguing two points, that minimum wage doesn't really do much because it's only 1% of the wage-earners. But at the same time, you're saying that raising it would be a bad thing because it COULD affect 10% of worker pay.
I believe we should ensure all people can have a home, healthcare and food on the table. But if I argued for this, you'd say that buying a mansion and providing chefs for all people would be a bad thing.

 

[varwoche]

Do you make minimum wage? If not, why not? What's stopping your employer from paying you minimum wage?

I'm self employed so there . But that said, Captain Obvious, clearly employers don't hold all the cards, particularly when it comes to skilled workers.