Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[DGM]

1. Any arguments about video need to go into the proper threads. Don't allow the truthers to derail this one!
2. Do the truthers not realize that the Doubletree videos were released? John at this very forum linked some of them at the beginning of the month, and there were previous links to them a much longer time ago.

This digression really needs to be split off into another thread. It's as off-topic from the OP as things can get.

Party pooper.

If you read this sub-forum the whole thing could be folded into the "General" thread. There is nothing new on the "truther" front (and has been that way for years).

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Party pooper.

If you read this sub-forum the whole thing could be folded into the "General" thread. There is nothing new on the "truther" front (and has been that way for years).

Well, yeah, that's true. This conspiracy peddler here is a perfect example of that. I mean, he's pushing put options, of all things, in another thread.

It's just that I hate for a nice, well made and heartfelt OP to be trashed downthread by someone who's obviously trying to derail from the topic of waking up and moving away from conspiracy fantasy. Any one of the truther lunacies being sprayed around here like water from a super soaker could have instead been posted in existent threads (and in a funny way, they already exist there! ) instead of detracting from this one. It's like a whiskey peddler walking into an AA meeting to trounce on a guy's speech about discovering sobriety. It's got that much class. That's why I wrote what I did above.

Not meaing to scold anyone here, besides the conspiracy peddlers.

 

[NoahFence]

cicorp - why would you need photos of the aircraft to prove it hit the Pentagon?

There can only be two conclusions - each with their own ramifications.

Either a Plane hit the Pentagon, or it didn't.

Which is it? Well, in order for it to have been something OTHER than AA 77, the aircraft parts would have had to be planted. The human remains collected and identified using DNA would have had to be planted. Eyewitnesses would have had to be coerced or paid to lie. Hundreds of 'em.

That there were AA aircraft parts collected is FACT.
That the passengers DNA was collected and identified is FACT.
That Eyewitnesses saw it come in and hit the Pentagon is FACT.
(Eyewitnesses that were recorded at the moment of impact, by the way)

Do yourself a favor, find Witness: DC 9/11 from NatGeo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfwsjF8X5U&feature=related

Watch it for only 15 minutes or so. Don't even bother watching the whole thing. If you're not convinced that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon, and not a missile, get back to me.

 

[twinstead]

That's what truthers don't understand--the ramifications of their accusations. If ones theory requires that evidence of the magnitude that was found in and around the Pentagon to have been planted, one would better be prepared to show evidence it was, or people will simply laugh at you.

 

[Dog Town]

cicorp - why would you need photos of the aircraft to prove it hit the Pentagon?

There can only be two conclusions - each with their own ramifications.

Either a Plane hit the Pentagon, or it didn't.

Which is it? Well, in order for it to have been something OTHER than AA 77, the aircraft parts would have had to be planted. The human remains collected and identified using DNA would have had to be planted. Eyewitnesses would have had to be coerced or paid to lie. Hundreds of 'em.

That there were AA aircraft parts collected is FACT.
That the passengers DNA was collected and identified is FACT.
That Eyewitnesses saw it come in and hit the Pentagon is FACT.
(Eyewitnesses that were recorded at the moment of impact, by the way)

Do yourself a favor, find Witness: DC 9/11 from NatGeo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfwsjF8X5U&feature=related

Watch it for only 15 minutes or so. Don't even bother watching the whole thing. If you're not convinced that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon, and not a missile, get back to me.

Find another thread.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Listened to a recent interview with Barry Zwicker today. Good stuff. Burned indeed.

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

W pushing put options, of all things, in another thread.

Agreed, there should be a thread for the 9/11 Put Options.

It's just that I hate for a nice, well made and heartfelt OP

I am heartily thankful for JREF too, for the diverse views on 9/11 to consider.

cicorp - why would you need photos of the aircraft to prove it hit the Pentagon?

Too much suspicious behavior: quick confiscation and withholding of 85 Pentagon security camera photos, Virginia DOT cams, 911 dispatch calls. Also suspicious: Vanishing titanium engines, no wing marks, strongest Pentagon section hit, Accounting department, opposite side from Rumsfeld, poor pilot Hani, etc.

There can only be two conclusions - each with their own ramifications. Either a Plane hit the Pentagon, or it didn't. Which is it?

Evidence and witness testimonies support a plane approached the Pentagon.

Well, in order for it to have been something OTHER than AA 77, the aircraft parts would have had to be planted.

There was ample opportunity during the remodeling operation. Plane parts could be ejected out to the lawn by a pre-planted bomb.

The human remains collected and identified using DNA would have had to be planted.

DNA confirms the Pentagon employees alright. We need to confirm the original location and chain of custody of Flight 77 passenger DNA.

Eyewitnesses would have had to be coerced or paid to lie. Hundreds of 'em.

Or they want to be "part of history" as in the case of Steven Storti. For free he claimed to interviewers that he saw the plane hit the Pentagon. I personally went to check out his balcony view. Steven moved out and the apartment was being shown to new tenants. It was 1 mile from the crash and buildings were in the way.

That there were AA aircraft parts collected is FACT.

Fine, what are the serial numbers?

That the passengers DNA was collected and identified is FACT.

Yes, identified at another base, miles from the Pentagon.

That Eyewitnesses saw it come in and hit the Pentagon is FACT.
(Eyewitnesses that were recorded at the moment of impact, by the way)

Storti shows that "eye witnesses" might exaggerate. Each one has to be checked out in a new investigation.

Do yourself a favor, find Witness: DC 9/11 from NatGeo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfwsjF8X5U&feature=related

Thanks for the suggestion. Interesting video. Some thoughts: Someone rightly says "you should leave it (plane part) where it was." He gives it to a police officer, who should have marked the position. Rumsfeld is seen helping to carry people (photo op) instead of leading the DoD. There is still the possibility that pre-planted plane parts could have exploded out to the lawn. The video shows the Capitol evacuation, as they should have done earlier at the Pentagon. Rep. Porter Goss told the reporter they DID anticipate plane attacks in to buildings.

If you're not convinced that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon, and not a missile, get back to me.

I never said it was a missile. I have met Pentagon Police Sgt. Brooks, and find his testimony, confirmed by Sgt. Lagasse's video, to be credible (Plane North Side of Citgo). I am still gathering info before publicly stating my opinion about what happened to the plane after it passed the Citgo. The light pole in the taxi window, without scratching the hood, is dubious.

 

[The Big Dog]

Put options. FACE PALM.

The guy wants a new investigation, despite the fact that he can't even begin to understand the original investigation.

It boggles the mind how incompetent truthers can be.

 

[twinstead]

cicorp you are going to get airborne trying to hand wave away the eye witnesses and physical evidence. Pulling things out of your nether regions is NOT evidence.

Parts could be ejected by a pre-planted bomb! LOL this is PRECIOUS. Do you know ANYTHING about where those parts and DNA were found?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Too much suspicious behavior: quick confiscation and withholding of 85 Pentagon security camera photos, Virginia DOT cams, 911 dispatch calls.

Your claim here is based purely on your own ignorance. Well, perhaps not entirely your own ignorance. I suspect that you've done no research into this claim yourself and are merely repeating a "factoid" that was lodged into your brain by others, who themselves were quite ignorant, many years ago.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/FBI_hides_84_Pentagon_videos

I suggest you make an attempt to catch up with the rest of us.

(Edit: Wow. That claim is now 6 years old. You're a veritable fossil layer of truther claims, cicorp.)

 

[NoahFence]

There was ample opportunity during the remodeling operation. Plane parts could be ejected out to the lawn by a pre-planted bomb.

huh?
And another bomb to spread the human remains and aircraft parts inside the building, too?

wow.

 

[jaydeehess]

Pentagon .........to the plane after it passed the Citgo. The light pole in the taxi window, without scratching the hood, is dubious.

Responded to HERE by creating a new thread.
If you wish one for 'put option' start one yourself.

 

[NoahFence]

Too much suspicious behavior: quick confiscation and withholding of 85 Pentagon security camera photos, Virginia DOT cams, 911 dispatch calls. Also suspicious: Vanishing titanium engines, no wing marks, strongest Pentagon section hit, Accounting department, opposite side from Rumsfeld, poor pilot Hani, etc.

Yikes. This happened nearly 10 years ago. You've still not seen photos of the engines inside the building?

Evidence and witness testimonies support a plane approached hit the Pentagon.

Fixed it for ya.

There was ample opportunity during the remodeling operation. Plane parts could be ejected out to the lawn by a pre-planted bomb.

None of the people responsible for the remodeling have come forward? Not even a death-bed confession? In ten years?

DNA confirms the Pentagon employees alright. We need to confirm the original location and chain of custody of Flight 77 passenger DNA.

It also confirmed passengers and crew. Try to keep up.

Or they want to be "part of history" as in the case of Steven Storti. For free he claimed to interviewers that he saw the plane hit the Pentagon. I personally went to check out his balcony view. Steven moved out and the apartment was being shown to new tenants. It was 1 mile from the crash and buildings were in the way.

Or one of them was a military plane whose communications to ATC are a matter of public record and found as easily as finding the lyrics to "Freebird"

Fine, what are the serial numbers?

Got me. But some guy holding pieces of wreckage, and a big "C" on silver and other pieces of the fuselage with American Airlines coloring tells me we really don't need to go that deep. That and there were 3 other airplane crashes that day. It's ok to use common sense once in a while.

Storti shows that "eye witnesses" might exaggerate. Each one has to be checked out in a new investigation.

But it's ok for twoofers to quote some guy going "it went boom boom boom like an explosion" as if it were proof? Again - one was a military pilot tasked with tailing AA flight 77. His recordings are public record (and heard on that video) and he saw it from miles away, right up to impact. Can't get much more thorough than that.

There is still the possibility that pre-planted plane parts could have exploded out to the lawn.

Well, not if there weren't any pre-planted plane parts. Which there weren't.

I never said it was a missile. I have met Pentagon Police Sgt. Brooks, and find his testimony, confirmed by Sgt. Lagasse's video, to be credible (Plane North Side of Citgo). I am still gathering info before publicly stating my opinion about what happened to the plane after it passed the Citgo. The light pole in the taxi window, without scratching the hood, is dubious.

The light pole is dubious, but a pre planted bomb inside the pentagon acting like a T-Shirt gun at the stadium, shooting plane parts onto the lawn, and I assume another aimed at the interior of the building isn't?

I really don't know where you people come up with this stuff.

 

[Dave Rogers]

The Pentagon is beyond their parking lot. Duh. Fail.

The video has been released. It doesn't show the impact. "Duh. Fail," as somebody once said.

Dr. Harrit, Jones and Farrer's study of the WTC dust has been independently replicated in the major aspects by Mark Basile. Fail.

Harrit, Jones and Farrer's conclusions violate the law of conservation of energy, and even then only claim to have found enough thermite to heat the columns by about 4ºC and no explosive residues. The fact that Basile has replicated their conclusions only means that Basile is an idiot too. Again, "Duh. Fail."

Three weak arguments, batted out of the ball park easily within minutes. 3 Outs. My inning.

And you're on two outs already. Not looking good.

You wonder why people question 9/11?

No, we understand that sometimes people need to believe lies to make themselves feel like cool rebels. We've just grown out of that stage.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

Too much suspicious behavior: quick confiscation and withholding of 85 Pentagon security camera photos, Virginia DOT cams, 911 dispatch calls. Also suspicious: Vanishing titanium engines, no wing marks, strongest Pentagon section hit, Accounting department, opposite side from Rumsfeld, poor pilot Hani, etc.

Well, if you get to make up a pack of lies, then it's hardly surprising that you find the results suspicious. In the real world that truthers don't want to live in, these 85 Pentagon security camera photos never existed, none of the DOT cameras pointed at the Pentagon because for some obscure reason they were aimed at moving traffic rather than recording the movements of a building, the engines have been photographed at the crash scene, there was extensive structural damage very obviously caused by the wings, Hanjour's instructor said that he had no doubt that he was a good enough pilot to have hit the building, and the rest is simply deciding that everything is suspicious. For example, if the plane had hit the side Rumsfeld was on and killed him, you'd be claiming that he was a target because he'd threatened to expose the plan; if he'd survived a hit on the side he was on, you'd be claiming it was suspicious that he wasn't killed; if the plane had hit one of the weaker sections, you'd be claiming that the attackers knew not to hit the recently renovated part; etc, etc, etc.

Quite simply, you're so determined to find evidence of an inside job that, if you can't, you'll make some up. Or, rather, the people whose fantasies you're repeating made some up; you've shown no signs of thinking anything up for yourself.

Dave

 

[twinstead]

I really don't know where you people come up with this stuff.

Oh I do. And after age 50 most men need to have it checked for cancer too.

 

[TruthersLie]

There was ample opportunity during the remodeling operation. Plane parts could be ejected out to the lawn by a pre-planted bomb.

I was going to respond to the entire post but I don't have the time... This just caught my eye.

I love arguments from ignorance... they are so fun.

Just a quick question. In all of the images from the pentagon that shows those plane parts, what is missing from your theory?

There are NO images of building masonry, no bricks, no cement, no nothing on the lawn with those plane parts. Do you know that that means?

There was NO bomb that went off to spread the plane debris. Do you know why? If there was, it would blow the debris of the building OUTWARDS so the lawn of the pentago would be covered with shredded and demolished masonry, bricks, cement, glass.

Massive fail. Thank you for playing. (have you managed to even read that SEC report yet? Didn't think so).

 

[triforcharity]

Dr. Harrit, Jones and Farrer's study of the WTC dust has been independently replicated in the major aspects by Mark Basile. Fail.

Yes, it most certainly is a fail. The "independant" replication was by some of the original authors. You cannot confirm your own reasearch, and claim it as independant.

That is called confirmation bias.

Oh, and as far as you hitting it out of the park? You've swung your bat 15 times while standing at the plate, and the pitcher is still at home eating Wheaties for breakfast.

Way to go.

 

[dafydd]

huh?
And another bomb to spread the human remains and aircraft parts inside the building, too?

wow.

It would have been much simpler just to crash a plane into the building.

 

[NoahFence]

It would have been much simpler just to crash a plane into the building.

One would think!