Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[abaddon]

We're not allowed to go to Bedlam and laugh at the inmates any more. This will have to do.

It is amazing to me that the likes of kageki et al. are entirely unaware how they are actually perceived by the rest of the world.

 

[dudalb]

It is amazing to me that the likes of kageki et al. are entirely unaware how they are actually perceived by the rest of the world.

Understanding reality and being a bigot are sort of mutually exclusive.

 

[dafydd]

It is amazing to me that the likes of kageki et al. are entirely unaware how they are actually perceived by the rest of the world.

I always hope that these people are trolls,for their own sakes. Sadly some of them are not.

 

[Walter Ego]

It is amazing to me that the likes of kageki et al. are entirely unaware how they are actually perceived by the rest of the world.

Even those they defend are not impressed.



Hermann Göring before and after reading this thread.
Grade for defending der Führer: F-Minus.

 

[kageki]

Yeah, there were no gas chambers in Ukraine.

Do you have even a base level knowledge of basic Holocaust historiography? It seems like you don't. It also seems like you're unable to understand argument by analogy and basic logic.

Ergo, CODOH is a fitting place for you.



{Sigh}

Yes, the Wannsee conference entailed a discussion of sterilization.

So I assume you believe the Wannsee Protocol is a genuine document. There's this part:



I assume we agree that this section refers to extermination through labor.

Continuing:



There's this term used above, i.e., entsprechend behandelt. I think we would again both agree that this term refers to them being murdered, no?

Or would you maintain the term refers to sterilization? Because if it refers to sterilization, then why not just use the same term used further down in the same document, i.e., Sterilisierung?

So I think it's fair to assume that the term entsprechend behandelt means murder.

So why murder people when you can sterilize them? Why are they so concerned with the remnant of Jewish strength being able to repopulate? The sterilizations are being limited to Mischlingen — that's why. The Nazis believed that this way they could get value out of the mixed-race Jews but still make sure the Jewish "race" disappeared.

With full-blooded Jews, other methods had to be applied. I.e., murder, either through labor or through other means.

Now, all that being said, when you have someone like Eichmann testifying that poison gas was used, and he was an attendee at this meeting, then does it really strain credulity that, indeed, poison gas was used, particularly given the other testimony, the documents that refer openly to gassings, and the forensics carried out at these sites?

They talk a whole lot about emigrations as well. Do you acknowledge that they talked about a variety of methods at Wannsee including "murder"? When it was murder then it was talking about a portion of the Jewish population that were sent for labor. "Murder" wasn't the only thing they talked about and hence I don't see it as "systematic".

The Chief of the Security Police and the SD then gave a short report of the struggle which has been carried on thus far against this enemy, the essential points being the following:

a) the expulsion of the Jews from every sphere of life of the German people,

b) the expulsion of the Jews from the living space of the German people.

In carrying out these efforts, an increased and planned acceleration of the emigration of the Jews from Reich territory was started, as the only possible present solution.

By order of the Reich Marshal, a Reich Central Office for Jewish Emigration was set up in January 1939 and the Chief of the Security Police and SD was entrusted with the management. Its most important tasks were

a) to make all necessary arrangements for the preparation for an increased emigration of the Jews,

b) to direct the flow of emigration,

c) to speed the procedure of emigration in each individual case.

The aim of all this was to cleanse German living space of Jews in a legal manner.

I would say the majority of this conference talked about emigrations and evacuations.

What documents to gassing? Or is that a document? There are conflicting forensic reports. I'm a little confused because the gas chamber at Auschwitz is a fake anyways.

 

[dafydd]

I'm a little confused because the gas chamber at Auschwitz is a fake anyways.

No it isn't.

 

[kageki]

No it isn't.

Funny thing how the judge avoided that question during Irving's trial. I take it you prefer "reconstruction".

 

[Wahrheitseeker]

They talk a whole lot about emigrations as well. Do you acknowledge that they talked about a variety of methods at Wannsee including "murder"? When it was murder then it was talking about a portion of the Jewish population that were sent for labor. "Murder" wasn't the only thing they talked about and hence I don't see it as "systematic".

ALL able bodied Jews were to be worked to death in the East; Himmler and the SS had many construction projects in mind for their new territories, and planned to utilize Jewish labor for their material ends, while also achieving their goal of eliminating the Jewish people. The Wannsee Protocol then clearly notes that the few workable Jews who survived the conditions would be "handled accordingly," which Wroclaw already notes was the equivalent to liquidation.

So, if able bodied Jews were to be exterminated through labor (or more direct means, if labor was not sufficient) just what do you think was planned for non-able bodied Jews (and hence, less valuable), such as women and children?

What you seem to agree to, but do not recognize the significance of, is that the Third Reich sought the extermination of European Jews, a fact clearly recorded by January 1942. Have you cornered yourself into a position (which Butz one time said was defensible) that just because extermination was the Nazi goal does not mean that it was put into place?

 

[truethat]

So your contention is that Jews were killed in the camp, just not by gas?

Yes this is his contention. About 20 pages ago I asked him what difference it made. I still haven't gotten an answer.

 

[kageki]

Yes this is his contention. About 20 pages ago I asked him what difference it made. I still haven't gotten an answer.

I did answer, but I can't find it now.

It does matter. What difference does it make to you that Nazis were burning people alive or not? Is there no difference to you on that method? And for gas chambers?

 

[Nick Terry]

Just where are you getting gassings from?

From the sum total of evidence relating to Auschwitz, which together indicates to any sane human being that there were gas chambers at Auschwitz which were used to kill large numbers of Jews.

In terms of sources from the same time-frame, some of the Sonderkommando manuscripts date from October 1944 and are entirely explicit in identifying which transports or selections were killed in which gas chambers that month. Other documentary sources indicate that indeed, there were numerous transports arriving mainly from Slovakia and Theresienstadt of whom only a fraction were registered in the camp. There are also reports from the women's camp which indicate large scale selections which also match the Sonderkommando manuscripts.

In November 1944 there are no more selections on arrival and there are no major selections inside the camp.

 

[kageki]

ALL able bodied Jews were to be worked to death in the East; Himmler and the SS had many construction projects in mind for their new territories, and planned to utilize Jewish labor for their material ends, while also achieving their goal of eliminating the Jewish people. The Wannsee Protocol then clearly notes that the few workable Jews who survived the conditions would be "handled accordingly," which Wroclaw already notes was the equivalent to liquidation.

So, if able bodied Jews were to be exterminated through labor (or more direct means, if labor was not sufficient) just what do you think was planned for non-able bodied Jews (and hence, less valuable), such as women and children?

What you seem to agree to, but do not recognize the significance of, is that the Third Reich sought the extermination of European Jews, a fact clearly recorded by January 1942. Have you cornered yourself into a position (which Butz one time said was defensible) that just because extermination was the Nazi goal does not mean that it was put into place?

So what is all this talk about emigrations and evacuations?

Where is the gas chamber in all this?

 

[kageki]

From the sum total of evidence relating to Auschwitz, which together indicates to any sane human being that there were gas chambers at Auschwitz which were used to kill large numbers of Jews.

In terms of sources from the same time-frame, some of the Sonderkommando manuscripts date from October 1944 and are entirely explicit in identifying which transports or selections were killed in which gas chambers that month. Other documentary sources indicate that indeed, there were numerous transports arriving mainly from Slovakia and Theresienstadt of whom only a fraction were registered in the camp. There are also reports from the women's camp which indicate large scale selections which also match the Sonderkommando manuscripts.

In November 1944 there are no more selections on arrival and there are no major selections inside the camp.

Why were children alive in Auschwitz then? There were elderly people recorded in death certificates as well.

 

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

So what is all this talk about emigrations and evacuations?

Heinrich Himmler's Speech at Poznan (Posen):

I am talking about the "Jewish evacuation": the extermination of the Jewish people.

It is one of those things that is easily said. "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, ha!, a small matter."

Where is the gas chamber in all this?

With reference to my letter of October 18, 1941, this is to inform you that Oberdienstleiter Brack of the Führer Chancellery has agreed to collaborate in the production of the required shelters and gassing devices.
[...]
At this time, Jews are being evacuated out of the Old Reich to Litzmannstadt (Lodz), and also other camps, to then later be used for labour in the east insofar as they are capable of work.

As things now are, there are no objections if the Jews who are not capable of work, are eliminated with the Brackian remedy. In this way, events such as those that, according to a report in front of me, took place on the occasion of the shootings of the Jews in Vilna, and which, considering that the shootings were carried out in public, can hardly be excused, will no longer be possible.
[...]

Original document here: page 1, page 2

Is there any way to make this clearer? This document is soooo well known and you nazi apologists still ignore it.

Why were children alive in Auschwitz then?

Jesus, every idiot knows about Mengele and the involvement of young twins in his experiments. Also not every child is jewish, and this is "just" the final solution of the jewish question.

There were elderly people recorded in death certificates as well.

And were they jewish? Have you ever thought of even beginning some kind of, you know, real "research"? No, because all you pathetic deniers need is the crap your "heros" wrote, no matter how *********** stupid it is.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Is there any way to make this clearer? This document is soooo well known and you nazi apologists still ignore it.

Probably because its pony.

 

[Nick Terry]

Why were children alive in Auschwitz then? There were elderly people recorded in death certificates as well.

It seems you haven't heard of the Theresienstadt family camp (Birkenau sector BIIb). I'd be curious as to how you explain what the Nazis thought they were doing with the family camp. I've never seen a revisionist explanation of the family camp which is even vaguely coherent.

 

[little grey rabbit]

It seems you haven't heard of the Theresienstadt family camp (Birkenau sector BIIb). I'd be curious as to how you explain what the Nazis thought they were doing with the family camp. I've never seen a revisionist explanation of the family camp which is even vaguely coherent.

And when you consider that orthodox narrative states that the family camp was kept in quarantine for six months and then the moment the six months were up they were immediately taken off to the gas chambers and then the process repeated with a new batch from Theresienstadt, the inability to come up with a more coherent explanation than that is really saying something.

I think the Hoax was left with such a daft narrative here because this appeared in the London newspapers in 1944 and the Industry has been stuck with it ever since.

 

[kageki]

Heinrich Himmler's Speech at Poznan (Posen):









Original document here: page 1, page 2

Is there any way to make this clearer? This document is soooo well known and you nazi apologists still ignore it.



Jesus, every idiot knows about Mengele and the involvement of young twins in his experiments. Also not every child is jewish, and this is "just" the final solution of the jewish question.



And were they jewish? Have you ever thought of even beginning some kind of, you know, real "research"? No, because all you pathetic deniers need is the crap your "heros" wrote, no matter how *********** stupid it is.

So you're saying every Jewish child that survived Auschwitz was due to Mengele's experiment and therefore twins? And any other children were non-Jews and spared the Darwinist policies of the Nazis? I'm not understanding how such selections would be restricted to just Jews.

 

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

So you're saying every Jewish child that survived Auschwitz was due to Mengele's experiment and therefore twins? And any other children were non-Jews and spared the Darwinist policies of the Nazis? I'm not understanding how such selections would be restricted to just Jews.

No I said one explanation for the registered childrens in the camp are the twins of the mengele experiments.

And any other children were non-Jews and spared the Darwinist policies of the Nazis?

This would be another explanation and you cannot just ignore those possibilities.

I'm not understanding how such selections would be restricted to just Jews.

The first gassing in Krema I was tried out on 900 soviet POWs, so non-jews didn't have the guarantee to survive and were forced to labour like the jews. Theoretically, there is no need to kill for example children of communists or other "enemies of the third reich", since there is no racist motive.

How exactly non-jews were selected or not is not my topic. I just gave you a possible explanation. So you either do the research on your own or wait til someone gives you answer, that you can then ignore.

This creationist looking for little mistakes, which are supposed to refute the whole holocaust is by the way just stupid.

Probably because its pony.

Someone please explain a poor German, what this guy is trying to say. What the hell means "pony" in this case? Is he actually that stupid to tell me, that the document is a fake?

 

[Chaos]

Someone please explain a poor German, what this guy is trying to say. What the hell means "pony" in this case? Is he actually that stupid to tell me, that the document is a fake?

This is the same language in which "ausrotten" means "relocate to Eastern Europe", so "pony" undoubtedly means "a factual account which does not fit into the Denier narrative and thus must be decried as a zionist forgery".