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The Biblical Realities of Hell

There are plenty of videos of lions and bears killing the young of their own kind. As I recall, it has the effect of bringing the mother into estrous so the dominant male can reproduce. Not cool, but fact.


In his classic work On Aggression, Nobel Laureate Konrad Lorenz argued that man is the only species that regularly kills its own kind. This concept, which contrasted the order and restraint in the animal world with the chaotic aggressiveness of man. reflected the mood of the time: the shadow-of-the-Bomb pessimism of the '50s and early '60s. But Lorenz was wrong; since 1963, when his book was published, naturalists have identified dozens of species that kill their own, including lions, hippos, bears, wolves, hyenas, herring gulls and more than 15 types of primates other than man.

Of course many species also battle for the choice of females, fights which often end in the death of one.
 
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I once had a pair of pet hamsters. The female got pregnant, but I never noticed. One day, I saw she had blood all over her, and panicking, I picked her up.

She was in labor. Because I disturbed her, she ate all her young.
 
I think we are the only ones that kill each other, besides lower primates.


Your first two words are a lie if that is the idea you have... You abviously didn't think, but just repeated a falshood. Nearly every animal will kill another of it's own species in copetiton for resources. There are even documented cases of animals organizing into units being commanded by a "general" to make war on another group. Even cute animals like meerkats do it!

Has this "edge" ever made a post that isn't total nonsense? The brain equals BS was just too much I couldn't even quote it without throwing up in my mouth. Repeating BS over a certain number of times still leaves it as BS. Having a brain (or even just a simple nervous system) means that there are drives to get food, reproduce, etc.
 
There are even documented cases of animals organizing into units being commanded by a "general" to make war on another group. Even cute animals like meerkats do it!

I was staggered when I first started watching Meercat Manor. The various tribes were actually at war with each other!

Norm
 
Even though I spanked him one time, it hurt me more than him.
I've heard that exculpatory rationale before before - and think, how do you know?

I was talking about punishment in general not beatings, don't you watch The Nanny?
Not to my knowledge... is it a US TV show?

I have never had to spank my child nor threaten with that.
She had morals from the beginning.
Good for her, sounds like it could have been very different.

Which is highly unusual.
You think?

I got my arse whipped by the belt many times and as I look back and it was what worked in my instance at that time.
As they say, "Like father, like son..."
 
I was making a parable about threats. .:rolleyes:
Gees you people are hard headed!
Do you punish your children or not?
Isn't the threat usally more than the punishment?
If we are like this then wouldn't it follow that our father is similar in that respect?
I did punish my children, but, unlike your God, I didn't kill them forever for minor transgressions.

Your God would blast them into their component atoms for failing to clean their rooms.


The very next day he went to the door and knew.
That's awesome. Could you try going to your door right now?
 
I was making a parable about threats. .:rolleyes:
Gees you people are hard headed!
Do you punish your children or not?
Isn't the threat usally more than the punishment?
If we are like this then wouldn't it follow that our father is similar in that respect?

Why would god follow a human model? I thought he was supposed to be better than us.
 
A dog terrorizer. You only have to make the dog think you'll beat it.

Of course, there are better ways to train a dog than physical punishment but god seems stuck in this abusive mode.
 
You said you beat and threaten your dog - are you saying you do that to your kids too? :eek:

Like father like son.


ETA: dlorde please stop stealing my lines before I post them. :)
 
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Well that's all good but you don't have the knowledge that he; God exists and wants a relationship with you.
Maybe that's a scary idea for most; to know there's more to this life than you can imagine.

he must use a different dating site...scary? not even a little and my imagination is totally free of stifling dogma but thanks for the concern
 
ETA: dlorde please stop stealing my lines before I post them. :)
Yeah, sorry about that, not my fault - it just totally came to me like some kinda message from God, or something. If I could only harness my ability for the good of mankind...
 
Why would god follow a human model? I thought he was supposed to be better than us.


edge's god is as subject to dark human emotions (anger, jealousy, hate) as any of the Greek gods, for example.

edge, I assume that you don't think of your god as a perfect being, correct? If you do, how do you explain all those all-too-human displays of emotion? Would a perfect being not be able to control his emotions?
 
edge's god is as subject to dark human emotions (anger, jealousy, hate) as any of the Greek gods, for example.

edge, I assume that you don't think of your god as a perfect being, correct? If you do, how do you explain all those all-too-human displays of emotion? Would a perfect being not be able to control his emotions?

What, like a divine Cartman?
 
Even though I spanked him one time, it hurt me more than him.
How, exactly, would you know how much it hurt him? I doubt very much that you possess telepathic abilities.

It was the only way to teach him that peeing in the house was a no no, it was more about marking his territory.
I disagree. There are other ways to teach.

I got my arse whipped by the belt many times and as I look back and it was what worked in my instance at that time.
I'm sorry that happened to you, Edge.
 
Originally Posted by RobDegraves
"A few more questions if you don't mind.
Let me summarize to see if I got this right.
Essentially in the end you are saying that everyone that has led a basically good life will be resurrected and find out that Jesus is God after all.
Am I right.
If so...
1. Why believe in any God?
You don't have any actual proof of God (s) and according to you it doesn't really matter what you believe but rather your acts. Ergo, belief is unnecessary.
2. What if you are wrong?
I am sure you believe with all your heart but in the end you have to admit that you could be wrong. This, by the way, is something that is true for all of us, those that believe and those that don't.
However...
What if God (s) are mutually exclusive, IE... believing in the wrong one gets you damned?
Someone who is atheist or agnostic can at least claim to have been neutral (ish) while someone worshiping the wrong God (s) is going to get it in the shorts.
3. Why bother with history?
If God is all powerful, why all this suffering and death, etc. Yes, I know we are supposed to have free will, but if God can see the future, and therefore the results of all our actions... why not skip to the end and avoid all the nasty bits in between. When someone is born, God should already know if he's good or bad... worth or unworthy. Ergo... paradise now would be appropriate.
Don't you think?"
Good or bad will be resurrected.

The rest of your premise doesn't follow for me.
Whoa whoa whoa! I'm just reading through this, so this might've been tackled, but..........NO! Bad Edge! That entire line of questioning was distilled down from your own logic, loopy as it may be, and made perfect, linear sense, even if accepting the premise of God, Christ et al is anything but linear or sensical. That's a complete bullschit cop-out, that you don't understand that line of questioning......a transparent evasion in the face of sound reasoning even under the conditions under which we have to think to even respond to you. Answer the rest of those questions.


I think it’s kind of like telling your child not to put their finger into a flame, but they do it anyway, you knew they were going to do it and usually they do.
The question is what did they learn?
Did they learn not to put their finger in the flame or to listen to guidance in the future or both?
You don’t know till that next candle is lit because it’s a child.

You're citing a specific sequence and outcome of a minor learning experience in a child's life to the possible grand confirmation of a human created societal control myth? The kid might feel the heat, back off. Might listen to it's parents. Might've had the older brother already burn it with a lighter. Might just be smart enough to know what a flame is. But you use the one slow kid who was told not to stick it's finger in the flame, and did anyways, as a comparison to the whole human species? The dumb kid who burned themselves......that's us! Or at least those members of our species that bury themselves in this mythos.

But in your world, really there's nothing that that example carries over to the question of God and Christ. Except the whole parental figure telling one what to do. If we chose wrong, we only find out at the resurrection, after we've been judged, after it's too late for us to learn, or apply that learning.

When would we learn "not to put our finger in the flame"?
Are we going to get another shot at sucking down this fallacy you call faith, so when the next candle is lit, we keep our grubby little mitts to ourselves?

The only way a person with sense would ever accept that set of allegorical fables would be to die and find out. By that point it's too late to use that knowledge.
 
Ok, read this page, couldn't help myself....

I once had a pair of pet hamsters. The female got pregnant, but I never noticed. One day, I saw she had blood all over her, and panicking, I picked her up.

She was in labor. Because I disturbed her, she ate all her young.
aaagh! How old were you? traumatizing.....but a great example. Why am I laughing? Does this mean I'm going to hell?

Why would god follow a human model? I thought he was supposed to be better than us.

With all the metaphors I've heard from religious relatives and pastors and priests at weddings, I can't believe this simple sentence never popped into my head.

Well that's all good but you don't have the knowledge that he; God exists and wants a relationship with you.
Maybe that's a scary idea for most; to know there's more to this life than you can imagine.

First, it's not a scary thought. I don't know why condescending religious fanboys have this locked in their minds. It doesn't scare, or even make us nervous. The idea is simply ludicrous, and such an obvious creation of frightened, gullible, arrogant human imaginations as to be rejected out of hand, or after close examination, whichever.

Second, you're right. Bad vibe doesn't have the knowledge that God exists. But news flash, neither do you! You have a faith, a belief, a hunch, a feeling, a hope, a tingle, a void, a need, a want, a desire, a requirement and even an imperative, but the last fuxking thing you have is knowledge of God's existence. To say you have such knowledge is the tantamount of arrogance, or stupidity, or both. On the topic of knowledge, I believe no human can truly know anything other than a) individually, they exist and b)what is commonly observed and verifiable by evidence that is repeatable.
Where did you glean this knowledge? In church, after murmuring prayers for hours straight, working yourself into a state where you 'felt' God? In confessional, when the Father arbitrarily absolved you of all sins in exchange for some prayers and maybe a donation? Through your entire life's experience, to which you are completely subjective, and yet were somehow able to extract objective truths?

Thirdly, that's a colossal piece of arrogance you're touting. An omniscient being that created trillions of stars and all of space time, and all of the possible forms of life, and goings on, wants a personal relationship with each and every individual human? Nevermind that in the unlikely event that God is as you say, and is in everything, including me, I can't think of a more personal relationship than being me, the food I eat and later excrete. Forget that. Isn't it far more likely that a human created and maintained organization wants our money and devotion, and to keep us believeing this tripe? seems to be the way it's gone for the last millenia or so.
 
Hell is separation from God first, Darkness, the pit is something else, but in both places there will be others who are even more evil than you can imagine.

Do we in this life try to separate ourselves from the truly evil people?
To be separated from something that isn't there, how is this a bad thing.

Paul

:) :) :)
 

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