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Just In: Amanda Knox Parents Must Stand Trial for Libel

But crminalizing saying stuff about people, especially government officials is outrageous.
I disagree. In this country (UK) we have laws about presenting untruths as facts.

People are free to give an opinion but they can not claim their tonic drink cures cancer, their investment product will beat inflation or that I beat someone up without being able to prove their allegations in a court of law.

I think the idea behind our laws in this respect are very good albeit I think we need to look at the burden of proof a bit more.

Why should I be able to spread lies about you with impunity? And why does it make a difference who you work for?
 
Italy can't prosecute an American for a 'libel' that isn't a crime or even a civil suit in America.
Sure they can.

No government in America, no state government, no state government and certainly not the federal government has ever, as far as I know, ever sued any citizen for libel. The crime of libel doesn't even exist in this country.
So?

This is like sending someone to Siberia for speaking out against government.
No! It's even worse! It's like sending an American to Siberia/jail for speaking out about the Italian government.
It's even worse...
Right...

As far as an outrageous act by government, this is a 100 on a scale of 100.
I doubt that Italy gives a damn about what you think.
 
Italy can't prosecute an American for a 'libel' that isn't a crime or even a civil suit.

No government in America, no state government, no state government and certainly not the federal government has ever, as far as I know, ever sued any citizen for libel. The crime of libel doesn't even exist in this country.

This is like sending someone to Siberia for speaking out against government.
No! It's even worse! It's like sending an American to Siberia/jail for speaking out about the Italian government.
It's even worse...

As far as an outrageous act by government, this is a 100 on a scale of 100.

Wrong.

They *can* prosecute anybody however they want, for whatever bloody stupid law they have, in absentio.

What they cannot is expect foreign governement apply the judgement if no similar law exists in that foreign country.

So maybe it is not libel in the USA, but the Knox (or anybody) cannot expect libelling anybody in the world, and then travel to that country without any consequence.

Think about it.
 
2
I disagree. In this country (UK) we have laws about presenting untruths as facts.

People are free to give an opinion but they can not claim their tonic drink cures cancer, their investment product will beat inflation or that I beat someone up without being able to prove their allegations in a court of law.

I think the idea behind our laws in this respect are very good albeit I think we need to look at the burden of proof a bit more.

Why should I be able to spread lies about you with impunity? And why does it make a difference who you work for?

If you're lying about me, I can prove you're lying and the lies caused me harm, I can sue you. No need to make it a crime.
 
Wrong.

They *can* prosecute anybody however they want, for whatever bloody stupid law they have, in absentio.

What they cannot is expect foreign governement apply the judgement if no similar law exists in that foreign country.

So maybe it is not libel in the USA, but the Knox (or anybody) cannot expect libelling anybody in the world, and then travel to that country without any consequence.

Think about it.

They can prosecute people in absentia there too? Glad I don't live in Italy.
 
The application might be correct. I dunno. But crminalizing saying stuff about people, especially government officials is outrageous.

Arguably, the effectiveness of the local constabulary is dependent on it's reputation. Thus, it is not outrageous to allow public servants to defend themselves.
 
Wrong.

They *can* prosecute anybody however they want, for whatever bloody stupid law they have, in absentio.

What they cannot is expect foreign governement apply the judgement if no similar law exists in that foreign country.

So maybe it is not libel in the USA, but the Knox (or anybody) cannot expect libelling anybody in the world, and then travel to that country without any consequence.

Think about it.

The purpose of a democratic government, in a nutshell, is to protect their citizens.

The Knox family needs protection. The Italian government has, for all practical purposes, participated in the slave trafficking of an American family. Or extortion, if you prefer.
 
Arguably, the effectiveness of the local constabulary is dependent on it's reputation. Thus, it is not outrageous to allow public servants to defend themselves.

They're free to sue the alleged offending party. Thankfully, in the US, the government doesn't throw people in jail for saying bad things about the governmet.
 
I wonder how perception of this would change if it was a US court filing charges against all and sundry that made statements, not proven but possible, against US government officials or employees?

Anywhere they made them.
 
Actually, it wouldn't:

1) The accusations were indeed published.

2) The plaintiffs, a.k.a. the Police Officers, are readily identifiable as the Officers on duty at the station the night Knox was questioned.

3) The remarks are defamatory towards the reputations of the Officers

4) The published information is false

5) and the Parents made the claims


Now, as for whether the malice and/or reckless disregard for truth can be shown, well, that remains to be seen. I'd have to do a bit more research, but I'd be willing to bet that the Defendants in this case made the accusations after the truth had become clear (that the statements made by Amanda were indeed false), that Amanda had been charged with libel for the same statements, and that the Italian Justice System (whether the Courts or Police Dept) had requested that the parents cease their defamatory remarks. Realistically, though, I'm not going to bother with the research. I'll just wait for the case to be tried and see what is presented by both sides.

While I do understand the argument that the parents shouldn't necessarily be accused of libel/defamatory speech when/if quoting their daughter - there's a point where the parents are making the accusations themselves and hiding behind "well, she said it first". IANAL, but IMO, that is not a sufficient defense.

My dog in this thread is merely to point out the lack of critical thinking that has jumped up here on the first page. No one here has read the indictment, and yet everyone's certain that it's just the Italian Courts trying to pressure the Knox/Mellas' through a lawsuit.

We don't have to read the indictment to know that this (like most of Mignini's prosecutions related to this case, and there have been a few!) is malicious. You say that the truth has become clear, and that Amanda's statements about what happened in that room 'were indeed false'. None of that is true.

Mignini claimed after an 'investigation' into the claims, that there was 'no proof' (u-r-l: seattlepi.com/local/420882_knox30.html?source=mypi) to support the allegations. But how was Amanda supposed to prove the truth of her claims?
How are the Knox's supposed to prove the truth of these claims?

1) The interrogation was not recorded because apparently Amanda was only a witness when the interrogations of 5th / 6th Nov took place.

This claim that Amanda was only a witness is most likely false as a statement was made on the morning of 6th by the police, to the effect that Amanda had 'buckled' and confirmed facts 'they already knew to be correct'. Therefore, Amanda was indeed suspected of the crime BEFORE the interrogations, making the lack of recording and the police's response to Amanda's request for legal counsel borderline illegal.
(Question- was it because of these facts that the statements resulting from these interrogations were 'disallowed' by the court? - If it weren't for the Kerchers' lawyer Maresca using the 'alongside' civil suit to sneak them in before the jury)

2) Police accounts of the interrogation are inconsistent and patchy (one police officer, not in the room, reports Amanda 'screaming', another fails to note the existence of the first interrogation in her notes, etc etc).

3) Patrick Lumumba's treatment by these same police at least bolsters Amanda's claims (u-r-l- dailymail.co.uk/news/article-496218/I-fired-Foxy-Knoxy-hitting-customers-Patrick-Lumumba-reveals-framed-Merediths-murder.html). They at least support the claim that this kind of treatment is part of the police culture in Umbria / Italy generally.

There you go, three prima facie good reasons for thinking that the Knox's claims might be true. :)
Just because you think the content of Amanda's statements are false (which I agree with) it doesn't mean her statements relating to how the interrogation took place are false.
 
How can you sue me unless 'lying' is against the law?

I dunno how it works other places but in the US there is a difference between civil and criminal cases. Libel is a civil case; it is not a crime.

Is this not an action by the five officials who are seeking to prove the Knox's were lying and the lies caused them harm?

No. Not at unless individuals can somehow bring down indictments in Italy.
 
A quick search on the internet leads me to the impression that this could equally happen in America. The case of New York Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254, 84 S. Ct. 710, 11 L. Ed. 2d 686 (1964) concerned a policeman who sued for defamation.

There is a difference between suing somebody and having them brought up on charges.
 
Not at unless individuals can somehow bring down indictments in Italy.

You mean you can't in the States? You really have no right to private prosecutions? Is redress through the criminal court dependant on the view of the government?

I'm not saying that this is a private prosecution, but I haven't seen evidence that it isn't.
 
You mean you can't in the States? You really have no right to private prosecutions? Is redress through the criminal court dependant on the view of the government?

I'm not saying that this is a private prosecution, but I haven't seen evidence that it isn't.

No such thing as a private prosecution in the US.
 

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