• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Just In: Amanda Knox Parents Must Stand Trial for Libel

I haven't been following this case and I can't really understand some people's obsession with it. This seems outrageous though and I am glad that I don't live in a country where it could happen.
 
dtugg said:
I haven't been following this case and I can't really understand some people's obsession with it. This seems outrageous though and I am glad that I don't live in a country where it could happen.
Click to expand...

She was in the United States talking to a British reporter, not in Italy.
 
Kaosium said:
She was in the United States talking to a British reporter, not in Italy.
Click to expand...

Good. That means there is no way anything will happen of it unless she visits Italy. My point still stands. Such a thing couldn't happen in the US legal system.
 
Last edited:
As her daughter is in an Italian jail, and has an appeal currently on the go, it's conceivable she might actually want to visit Italy, you know....

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
As her daughter is in an Italian jail, and has an appeal currently on the go, it's conceivable she might actually want to visit Italy, you know....

Rolfe.
Click to expand...


True. It does suck that she won't be able to visit her daughter in Italy because of these ridiculous charges.
 
Simple abuse of power in an attempt to stop their public campaign; I suspect that the Italians don't want this to reach court on the basis that a successful prosecution is unlikely and will result in further adverse publicity.

One would like to think that the US consul would make official representations.
 
odeed said:
Since Curt Knox and Edda Mellas are from the State of Washington, the Criminal Libel laws for that state
Click to expand...

Did this happen in Washington?

Apparently Washington is one of the few states (only?) where, horrifying, libel is a crime (albeit a misdemeanor). Thank you for pointing this out. It is news to me.

Are there any cases of people being prosecuted for it? Especially for people saying stuff about government officials.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
So, how many people here have actually read the indictment?
Click to expand...

I dunno how many people in the world have actually read the indictment at this point. Still, it was hardly unexpected, this was announced months ago, I thought the charges had been filed already.

Here's the Italian article translated, I like how they've 'upgraded' the pronoun for females from 'he' to 'it.' 'You've come a long way baby...' :D

WARNING: Google-translated Italian can be harmful to your mental health.

LONDON - The parents of Amanda Knox will not pass a good July 4th, American Independence Day. That day, in fact, the process will start against Curt Knox and Edda Mellas, father and mother of First Instance sentenced to 26 years for the murder of Meredith Kercher. The two Americans have been indicted by the court preliminary hearing in Perugia for defamation against five officials of the Perugia flying squad for statements in an interview in 2009 on the website of the Sunday Times.

"Never" abuse "" - "in particular - is written in the indictment - related, contrary to the truth, that Amanda had not been assisted by an interpreter, that it had not been given food or water, that it was" abused (abused) both physically and verbally. " Finally, "it was hit behind the head with a slap" and "threat (" if you ask a lawyer will make things worse for you ...")».

NO INTENTION - According to the defenders of the parents of Amanda, the two Americans "had no intention of undermining the prestige and dignity of the officials of the Perugia flying squad." In particular, the lawyers argued lack of intent on the part of their clients, and then asking for the acquittal. But the preliminary hearing judge was a different view.

APPEAL - The appeal trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito will resume March 12. Genetic expertise is being considered on the knife the murder weapon and the bra worn by Meredith when he was killed. It is predicted that by May 9 at the Court settle the experts that their conclusions will be examined in court May 21.
 
Last edited:
odeed said:
I have no idea IANAL, I was just pointing out to dtugg that it could happen in the US (at least in Washington State).

A couple of links on Criminal/Civil defamation around the world:

http://www.article19.org/advocacy/defamationmap/map/?dataSet=defamation_legislation_2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
Click to expand...

In the US this is the bit that would shut this case down.

Public figure doctrine (absence of malice)

Special rules apply in the case of statements made in the press concerning public figures, which can be used as a defense. A series of court rulings led by New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964) established that for a public official (or other legitimate public figure) to win a libel case, the statement must have been published knowing it to be false or with reckless disregard to its truth, (also known as actual malice).

Under United States law, libel generally requires five key elements. The plaintiff must prove that the information was published, the plaintiff was directly or indirectly identified, the remarks were defamatory towards the plaintiff's reputation, the published information is false, and that the defendant is at fault.

The Associated Press estimates that 95% of libel cases involving news stories do not arise from high-profile news stories, but "run of the mill" local stories like news coverage of local criminal investigations or trials, or business profiles. Media liability insurance is available to newspapers to cover potential damage awards from libel lawsuits.
Click to expand...
 
PhantomWolf said:
In the US this is the bit that would shut this case down.
Click to expand...

Actually, it wouldn't:

1) The accusations were indeed published.

2) The plaintiffs, a.k.a. the Police Officers, are readily identifiable as the Officers on duty at the station the night Knox was questioned.

3) The remarks are defamatory towards the reputations of the Officers

4) The published information is false

5) and the Parents made the claims


Now, as for whether the malice and/or reckless disregard for truth can be shown, well, that remains to be seen. I'd have to do a bit more research, but I'd be willing to bet that the Defendants in this case made the accusations after the truth had become clear (that the statements made by Amanda were indeed false), that Amanda had been charged with libel for the same statements, and that the Italian Justice System (whether the Courts or Police Dept) had requested that the parents cease their defamatory remarks. Realistically, though, I'm not going to bother with the research. I'll just wait for the case to be tried and see what is presented by both sides.

While I do understand the argument that the parents shouldn't necessarily be accused of libel/defamatory speech when/if quoting their daughter - there's a point where the parents are making the accusations themselves and hiding behind "well, she said it first". IANAL, but IMO, that is not a sufficient defense.

My dog in this thread is merely to point out the lack of critical thinking that has jumped up here on the first page. No one here has read the indictment, and yet everyone's certain that it's just the Italian Courts trying to pressure the Knox/Mellas' through a lawsuit.
 
Last edited:
I must apologise for my ignorance here.

Could someone please explain why this is stupid providing appropriate references to Italian / European law clearly explaining why the relevant law does not apply in this case. Alternatively could they explain why the application of the law is correct but why the law is ultra vires.

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:
Bruce Fisher said:
“Amanda was abused physically and verbally. She told us she was hit in the back of the head by a police officer with an open hand, at least twice.”

“The police told her, ‘If you ask for a lawyer, things will get worse for you’ and ‘If you don’t give us some explanation for what happened, you're going to go to jail for a very long time.’”

Does anyone honestly feel that those statements were a crime? Amanda's parents were simply repeating the testimony made by their daughter. They weren't on trial. They weren't under oath in an Italian court. They were giving an interview to a newspaper. No matter what the law is, these charges are completely unnecessary and in my opinion, ridiculous. You know, in North Dakota, you're breaking the law if you dance with a hat on. I imagine common sense would keep anyone from enforcing the law. It seams that common sense was nowhere to be found when these charges were leveled against Amanda's parents.

I do not know if there could possibly be a better example of an inexcusable abuse of power. This behavior is very dangerous and this information should be disturbing to anyone who reads it. This conduct should be most alarming to Italians. These actions threaten their own freedom.
Click to expand...

I am sorry, but if I say my brother told me Bruce Fisher is a baby-eater, in a journal, you would be in right to attack me in libel, even if I pretend my brother said it. Because i would be the one leading to the publication of the information.

And like it or not, accusing the police to abuse physically prisoner under their guard is a serious accusation and can lead to get you to court if you do it without evidence.

And by the way, accusation through media *IS* libel. You don't need to be under oath to be accused of libel or be in court.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Gosh Justinian, you're all over the place. Not sure what you mean by being intimidated by another country. I believe Amanda's parents made the comments in question in the British press, not the American press.

Amanda isn't a child, she's a woman.
Click to expand...

Italy can't prosecute an American for a 'libel' that isn't a crime or even a civil suit in America.

No government in America, no state government, no state government and certainly not the federal government has ever, as far as I know, ever sued any citizen for libel. The crime of libel doesn't even exist in this country.

This is like sending someone to Siberia for speaking out against government.
No! It's even worse! It's like sending an American to Siberia/jail for speaking out about the Italian government.
It's even worse...

As far as an outrageous act by government, this is a 100 on a scale of 100.
 
Last edited:
Lothian said:
I must apologise for my ignorance here.

Could someone please explain why this is stupid providing appropriate references to Italian / European law clearly explaining why the relevant law does not apply in this case. Alternatively could they explain why the application of the law is correct but why the law is ultra vires.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

The application might be correct. I dunno. But crminalizing saying stuff about people, especially government officials is outrageous.
 
brodski said:
Are you some kind of elaborate parody? I really can't tell if you're serious.
Click to expand...

The primeval part of me would like to see military force used on Italy.

Part of me is for justice that complies with justinian maxims (Paraphrased: bear no false witness, allow each his due and cause no harm). That part wants Italy to grow up, be sane, be rational and show some empathy and understanding. Even this part of me that does not believe in force believes that the time for some force is here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom