Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Onofarar]

On this particular forum, with a huge number of pages spread over three threads doing exactly that, your question is simply hilarious.



Can you point to where it has been established, other than in your own wild fantasies of course.

Danceme & Alt+F4 - How much billable time do you think Maresca has in the case (his own plus associates)? Granted his total bill is much less than the Knox/Mellas families have incurred for Amanda, but it must still be substantial. Since I have heard nothing about the Kerchers' mortgaging/selling property to pay these bills it seems reasonable to assume they are mostly unpaid and will be paid at a later date.
Maresca, who is much more familiar with Italian law, must have good reason to continue his work and it is certainly doing everything he can to maintain the convictions in the trial of the first instance. He has to be confident that if the convictions stand there is a reliable source to collect the 4.4 or 5.4 million Euro award from the defendants which in turn will enable the Kercxhers to pay him.

BTW - I don't buy the publicity angle - should the convictions stand the credit will go to Mignini and Comodi not Maresca. They get fame he gets money.
BTW #2 - no one has addressed my question regarding Rudy's trial and appeals - did Maresca appear in those court sessions representing the Kercher family?

 

[Gaspode]

Some posts moved to AAH.

Try to keep on-topic. Thanks.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode

 

[RWVBWL]

What are the laws in Italy involving parole for murder and time off for good behavior? He's a violent killer so you have no logical reason to believe he would be a model prisoner.

What have we heard about his behavior in the 3+ years he's been in prison so far?

Hi Dan O. and Alt-F4,
Have a look at this:
"Recently it became known that back in March an Albanian and a Romanian beat Rudi down to the ground in the Viterbo prison. Something that looked like one of those usual punishments among inmates, for those who don't follow their internal rules. The beating was hurtful, with hard punches and kicks everywhere, but Rudi didn't react. Or reacted in a legal way, with a lawsuit. Reportedly, the jail suggested to him not to complain, not to do anything (sometimes you don't know who's more criminal there, if the prisoners or the other ones). But Rudi, contrary to that suggestion, went legal, and sued the attackers.
Having received apologies from the two, Rudi Tuesday withdrew the lawsuit before the Viterbo Giudice di Pace (a single judge for minor crimes).

Lawsuits, apologies, withdrawals... Guede transforming a prison in a gentlemen's club is really something special. Perhaps prisoners will start slapping each other with gloves at every dispute now...

Link here:
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/10/rudi-guede-keeps-his-position.html

Rudy Guede, a guy whom many believe to be a brutal, cold blooded murderer, a guy capable of savagely stabbing a young woman that he knew in the throat, again, and again, after apparently beating her, gets beat up in prison himself.
Does he react violently? No, he sues the guys! Too funny!
Rudy Guede is, in my opinion, a wuss! Is he a guy capable of stabbing a young woman over and over in the throat? Well, I still wonder if he did that, and from reading Perugia Shock over the last few years, it seems Frank Sfarzo wonders too...

Have a good one everyone, I'm out...
L8, RWVBWL

 

[Onofarar]

I have asked this question before, and I don't think anyone gave an answer. Can Meredith's family be countersued or the court order them to pay Knox/Sollecito's legal fees because they hired Maresca, if the case gets overturned. Even I feel Maresca's involvement is about money. Yet it might not be about Sollecito's money. Italians have posted its considered a hostile act for a family to hire a lawyer to represent them at the trial. I dont know the process in Italy but when sueing someone in America if you lose you pay the persons legal fees you sued. It could be something as simple as Maresca protesting because there could be a backlash at the Kerchers. I'm not saying Knox/Sollecito would do this, yet it could be an automatic backlash by law. In America its pretty much automatic that you pay the defendants legal fees if you lose.

Chris C - I believe you have this totally wrong. What you have cited is the system in the UK. Due to the contingency fee system allowed in US civil trials many meritless lawsuits are filed and pursued. Only a handful - the most egregious, if it were, ever see judgment for the plaintiff AND recovery of his legal costs. And even when it happens - I suspect defendants often don't collect because the plaintiff has no money to pay. Since the plaintiff's attorney is being paid out of the award/settlement they only sue deep pockets - which usually means someone with insurance - the insurance company then bears the defense costs and usually treats those expenses as a cost of doing business. Due to the anti-business bias promulgated by the media in this country insurance companies are seen as big and evil and therefore rarely would prevail trying to recover their legal costs. In fact it is that fact alone that results in all but the most meritless cases being settled out of court - the settlement award will be less than the legal defense costs.

 

[Onofarar]

I didn't see anything in that link regarding Raffaele inheriting valuable property from his deceased mother.

Alt+f4 you really need to pay attention and do a little work. Click the link scroll down almost to the bottom - there are many pages - that is what the elevator bar is for (yes I'm belittling you - but you have done this kind of thing many times now). When you get to June 20th (as Fine referenced for you) read carefully and you will find the documentation you claim is not there.

BTW - The last time time I checked someone who is wealthy, as RS's father testified RS was, has property.

 

[Kaosium]

I have asked this question before, and I don't think anyone gave an answer. Can Meredith's family be countersued or the court order them to pay Knox/Sollecito's legal fees because they hired Maresca, if the case gets overturned. Even I feel Maresca's involvement is about money. Yet it might not be about Sollecito's money. Italians have posted its considered a hostile act for a family to hire a lawyer to represent them at the trial. I dont know the process in Italy but when sueing someone in America if you lose you pay the persons legal fees you sued. It could be something as simple as Maresca protesting because there could be a backlash at the Kerchers. I'm not saying Knox/Sollecito would do this, yet it could be an automatic backlash by law. In America its pretty much automatic that you pay the defendants legal fees if you lose.

A couple of things I recall coming across regarding this. First that I doubt there is recourse against someone taking up the 'civil part' as I recall Broken_English posting that it was sometimes a politician or other public figure that would do so in certain cases if there was no-one to really do it otherwise. I doubt they'd take that risk if there would be consequences.

Another thing I recall when Machiavelli posted on it is that in Italian culture there seems to still be a 'vendetta' instinct, and going after an entire family is not exactly unusual in some cases. Thus they don't ruin just the perpetrator sometimes, though if I recall correctly he did say that some considered it bad form.

 

[Kaosium]

1) Why did Rudy Guede have his mug shot taken by the Polizia Scientifica Perugia before her murder?
Was he arrested and/or jailed for something that I am unaware of? Is this somehow related to the rumor that Rudy Guede possibly became a police informer?

2) In the 2nd mug shot, taken by the Questura di Milano,
I assume this was when he was found in the nursery/kindergarten school and was in possesion of stolen property.Correct?

Was Rudy Guede ever convicted of a crime
or was he just arrested, photographed and released to then have a nice day, so to say?
Thanks for any help on this matter,
RWVBWL
Peace everyone...

Rudy Guede was never convicted of anything, however if I recall correctly he was arrested once which must be where that mug shot came from. I'm not sure which of his 'incidents' would have resulted in that.

 

[Chris C]

A couple of things I recall coming across regarding this. First that I doubt there is recourse against someone taking up the 'civil part' as I recall Broken_English posting that it was sometimes a politician or other public figure that would do so in certain cases if there was no-one to really do it otherwise. I doubt they'd take that risk if there would be consequences.

Another thing I recall when Machiavelli posted on it is that in Italian culture there seems to still be a 'vendetta' instinct, and going after an entire family is not exactly unusual in some cases. Thus they don't ruin just the perpetrator sometimes, though if I recall correctly he did say that some considered it bad form.

Yes but there is a settlement judgement against Meredith's killer. That being said, would any action Maresca has taken representing Meredith against Knox/Sollecito be at risk? Maybe thats a little clearer. We are talking about why a lawyer such as Maresca would seek to prevent 2 possible innocent people from getting a fair trial. If its not about Sollecito's money, then it must be about the settlement. Yall can pretend all you want to, but lawyers are vampires. They will such people dry of money. Thats what they do. Maresca isn't doing this for free. I dont care what any of you believe. Its all about the money when it comes to lawyers and Italy is a country that is close to the top in lawyers per capita.

 

[Withnail1969]

Yes but there is a settlement judgement against Meredith's killer. That being said, would any action Maresca has taken representing Meredith against Knox/Sollecito be at risk? Maybe thats a little clearer. We are talking about why a lawyer such as Maresca would seek to prevent 2 possible innocent people from getting a fair trial. If its not about Sollecito's money, then it must be about the settlement. Yall can pretend all you want to, but lawyers are vampires. They will such people dry of money. Thats what they do. Maresca isn't doing this for free. I dont care what any of you believe. Its all about the money when it comes to lawyers and Italy is a country that is close to the top in lawyers per capita.

What is 'the settlement'? Where would that money come from? I thought there was just the civil case against Amanda and Raffaele. Is it something from Rudy's trial?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Was Rudy Guede ever convicted of a crime
or was he just arrested, photographed and released to then have a nice day, so to say?
Thanks for any help on this matter,
RWVBWL

Guede's fingerprints apparently were on file because he is a resident alien, not in connection with a police matter. As far as I know, he had no criminal convictions, but there is good reason to think he committed a number of crimes for which he was never charged. It's not easy to get to the bottom of the story. It is somewhat like the situation with the hard drives: we have enough information to know that bad decisions were made, but we don't know the details, and the people who do know aren't talking.

 

[billyryan]

Danceme & Alt+F4 - How much billable time do you think Maresca has in the case (his own plus associates)? Granted his total bill is much less than the Knox/Mellas families have incurred for Amanda, but it must still be substantial. Since I have heard nothing about the Kerchers' mortgaging/selling property to pay these bills it seems reasonable to assume they are mostly unpaid and will be paid at a later date.
Maresca, who is much more familiar with Italian law, must have good reason to continue his work and it is certainly doing everything he can to maintain the convictions in the trial of the first instance. He has to be confident that if the convictions stand there is a reliable source to collect the 4.4 or 5.4 million Euro award from the defendants which in turn will enable the Kercxhers to pay him.

BTW - I don't buy the publicity angle - should the convictions stand the credit will go to Mignini and Comodi not Maresca. They get fame he gets money.
BTW #2 - no one has addressed my question regarding Rudy's trial and appeals - did Maresca appear in those court sessions representing the Kercher family?

I wont answer your question either Onofarar because I don't know,Maresca attended Mignini's trial for abuse of power to hold his hand,I distinctly remember reading on Perugia shock that Maresca and Rudy's lawyers are very friendly these days according to Frank Sfarzo

As far as Maresca believing he can get the 4.4 to 4.5 million civil award.when Maresca got involved in this in the beginning he expected to be able to collect off the Sollecitos,but as the song says"now I am not so sure"for him to cut his losses now and quit, he might have to even sue the Kerchers to get a settlement, he would be walking out on his buddy Mignini,who contacted him in the beginning to tell him there would be rich pickings when a young man from a wealthy family was convicted for murder.

As far as John Kercher is concerned he has lost his beloved daughter,and she like Amanda Knox was a great great girl a credit to her parents and the schools and societies that produced her, and the grief has destroyed him.In the hours and days of his greatest despair lowlifes like Mignini and Maresca convinced him of what is not true.he now owes Maresca a huge fee and he is unwilling or unable to admit to himself he was lead down the garden path

 

[Chris C]

What is 'the settlement'? Where would that money come from? I thought there was just the civil case against Amanda and Raffaele. Is it something from Rudy's trial?

If I remember correctly the civil case is against anyone that is convicted and not Knox/Sollecito/Guede directly. So thats why i ask that question. If the family hires a lawyer to represent Meredith at the trial are they risking the judgement against anyone that ends up being convicted, if the defendents end up being found not guilty? Maresca was hired to represent Meredith by the family who receives said judgement. So is the family now responsible for Knox/Sollecito's lawyer fees if they end up having their convictions overturned? If not, Its not a big deal. If they are responsible, then it could explain Maresca's actions in not wanting anything tested or reviewed. In Italy its considered an aggressive/hostile act to have a lawyer present at trial for the victim. Its one thing if a politician or neutral party gets involved, however Maresca was brought in by the Kerchers. Thats why I ask that question.

 

[Chris C]

Guede's fingerprints apparently were on file because he is a resident alien, not in connection with a police matter. As far as I know, he had no criminal convictions, but there is good reason to think he committed a number of crimes for which he was never charged. It's not easy to get to the bottom of the story. It is somewhat like the situation with the hard drives: we have enough information to know that bad decisions were made, but we don't know the details, and the people who do know aren't talking.

Actually, he might be charged for all we know. Heck it took 7 years to bring Curatolo to trial.

 

[Withnail1969]

If I remember correctly the civil case is against anyone that is convicted and not Knox/Sollecito/Guede directly. So thats why i ask that question. If the family hires a lawyer to represent Meredith at the trial are they risking the judgement against anyone that ends up being convicted, if the defendents end up being found not guilty? Maresca was hired to represent Meredith by the family who receives said judgement. So is the family now responsible for Knox/Sollecito's lawyer fees if they end up having their convictions overturned? If not, Its not a big deal. If they are responsible, then it could explain Maresca's actions in not wanting anything tested or reviewed. In Italy its considered an aggressive/hostile act to have a lawyer present at trial for the victim. Its one thing if a politician or neutral party gets involved, however Maresca was brought in by the Kerchers. Thats why I ask that question.

I think I see what you're saying. It's also normal in England for the legal fees to be awarded against the plaintiffs in civil cases if they lose, and of course people go bankrupt as a result. I'm not sure about Italy.

One thing's for sure, one way or another, this whole circus is about money.

 

[Withnail1969]

I'm still looking for a viable answer as to how Amanda and Raffaele could be condemned by the results of Rudy's trial. They had no defense there, how could they be adversely affected? I know Mignini and Maresca said so, but why didn't any of these reporters ask them how this could be, and why they were even bothering with Raffaele and Amanda's appeal if that were the case?

I've been attempting to explain this to CoulsdonUK without success. You can't possibly be convicted on the basis that in another trial at which you were not represented, it was decided that you participated in a crime. Not in a country which claims to have some kind of fair legal system anyway.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

If I remember correctly the civil case is against anyone that is convicted and not Knox/Sollecito/Guede directly. So thats why i ask that question. If the family hires a lawyer to represent Meredith at the trial are they risking the judgement against anyone that ends up being convicted, if the defendents end up being found not guilty? Maresca was hired to represent Meredith by the family who receives said judgement. So is the family now responsible for Knox/Sollecito's lawyer fees if they end up having their convictions overturned? If not, Its not a big deal. If they are responsible, then it could explain Maresca's actions in not wanting anything tested or reviewed. In Italy its considered an aggressive/hostile act to have a lawyer present at trial for the victim. Its one thing if a politician or neutral party gets involved, however Maresca was brought in by the Kerchers. Thats why I ask that question.

ChrisC

The only other high profile civil case I can recall is OJ Simpson I believe that resulted millions being awarded for wrongful deaths of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, I doubt that either family’s ever got a cent from Simpson.

This is a quote from an ABC News article shortly after the end of the trial
“When asked if the Kercher family was satisfied with the guilty verdicts, Meredith Kercher's mother, Arline Kercher, said," If the evidence has been presented, then yes, you have to agree with that verdict.

"At the end of the day," she added, "you have to go on the evidence because there's nothing else."

The Kerchers were awarded roughly $6.5 million in compensation for the murder, but Lyle Kercher said that the figure was largely a symbolic one that reflected the "severity and gravity of the case." "Money will never bring anything or change anything," he said.

Family members said they are aware they will have to relive the pain of Kercher's killing throughout the appeals process.

"We were fully prepared for that fact," said Kercher's sister, Stephanie. "We have to handle it as it happens."


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/AmandaKnox/family-visits-disappointed-upset-amanda-knox-jail-conviction/story?id=9257953

 

[LondonJohn]

If I remember correctly the civil case is against anyone that is convicted and not Knox/Sollecito/Guede directly. So thats why i ask that question. If the family hires a lawyer to represent Meredith at the trial are they risking the judgement against anyone that ends up being convicted, if the defendents end up being found not guilty? Maresca was hired to represent Meredith by the family who receives said judgement. So is the family now responsible for Knox/Sollecito's lawyer fees if they end up having their convictions overturned? If not, Its not a big deal. If they are responsible, then it could explain Maresca's actions in not wanting anything tested or reviewed. In Italy its considered an aggressive/hostile act to have a lawyer present at trial for the victim. Its one thing if a politician or neutral party gets involved, however Maresca was brought in by the Kerchers. Thats why I ask that question.

Are we sure that Maresca was not provided to the victim's family by the court, at public expense?

Also, just out of general interest about the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, manslaughter most definitely is a defined cirminal offence. It's defined explicitly in articles 585 and 589 of the code. So a person can assuredly be charged and convicted of manslaughter in Italy, as distinct from murder. Just FYI, as I said....

 

[Withnail1969]

The Kerchers were awarded roughly $6.5 million in compensation for the murder, but Lyle Kercher said that the figure was largely a symbolic one that reflected the "severity and gravity of the case."

Symbolic in the sense that active efforts are being made by Maresca to get that very real non-symbolic cash from the wealthy Sollecitos.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Symbolic in the sense that active efforts are being made by Maresca to get that very real non-symbolic cash from the wealthy Sollecitos.

Withnail1969

The trigger for what you describe would be the confirmation of Raffaele and Amanda's conviction the appeal has not really got under way, so I don't know what the outcome will be.

All I can do is provide an independent sources of what was said after the trial, can you provide similar information that supports your assertion?

 

[Withnail1969]

Withnail1969

The trigger for what you describe would be the confirmation of Raffaele and Amanda's conviction the appeal has not really got under way, so I don't know what the outcome will be.

All I can do is provide an independent sources of what was said after the trial, can you provide similar information that supports your assertion?

Everything possible is being done to suppress the truth of what actually happened to Meredith and to prejudice the defendants' appeal. The reason is the large amount of money which the prosecution stand to gain if their lies are accepted.